More line-out disappointment

Just thought I’d report some more evidence to support the assumption that the Fuze does not have a line-out.  I recently ordered a Sansa A/V cable (AV TV VIDEO AUDIO CABLE FOR SANSA VIEW E280 E270 E260) and it finally showed up yesterday.  It was only $7 shipped so I thought it was worth a shot.  Unfortunately, it doesn’t work.  No audio output at all, regardless of the volume setting.

From what I understand in reading the View forum on ABI, the View (and I think E series?) can actually supply both line out and headphone out on the 20 pin connector.  The fact that I get no audio at all on the A/V cable would lead me to believe that: A) the Fuze has a different pinout (highly unlikely), B) my brand new cable is bad (somewhat unlikely), or C) the Fuze simply doesn’t have line-out (fairly likely).

If C is true, then it’s really disappointing that Sandisk chose to use the 20 pin connector instead of mini-USB.  It would mean we have all the drawbacks of a proprietary connector with none of the benefits.

If anyone else has tried the A/V cable, please post your results.  Unfortunately, I don’t have access to a View or E series to check the cable.

Sansafix - can you please clarify this situation?  You stated in a previous thread that the Fuze has the same line-out as the View, but based on my experience and other reports from Sansa Dock users, that does not seem to be the case.  I really want to believe my cable is bad, but it seems too great a coincidence.  Should the View A/V cable work with the Fuze?  And if so, should it provide an actual line-out or just a clone of the headphone out?

Line out is the same on View, e200, and Fuze.

@sansafix wrote:
Line out is the same on View, e200, and Fuze.

Thanks for the quick reply.

So a Sansa A/V cable should work (audio only, of course) with the Fuze?

Message Edited by Skinjob on 06-04-2008 12:15 PM

Sansa uses a 30 pin connector not 20 :slight_smile:

yes line out should work (audio only). the spec used for the 30 pin connector is the same for use with made for sansa accessories. 

Message Edited by drlucky on 06-04-2008 10:25 AM

OK we need to clarify,

Fuze Line out works with the Sansa Base Station  (Dock station) .

The View Video cable is new and the Fuze does not do Audio Line out currently to it.  

We will review if this is possible in the future. 

@drlucky wrote:

Sansa uses a 30 pin connector not 20 :slight_smile:

 

yes line out should work (audio only). the spec used for the 30 pin connector is the same for use with made for sansa accessories. 

Message Edited by drlucky on 06-04-2008 10:25 AM

Thanks for the reply and the typo (Doh!) correction.

Hmm…   So I guess it’s possible I got a bad cable.  Amazing coincidence with all the “no line-out” speculation on the forum, but typical of my luck. :angry:

So before I spend some money on another one, has anyone successfully used a Sansa AV cable with the Fuze?

@sansafix wrote:

OK we need to clarify,

 

Fuze Line out works with the Sansa Base Station  (Dock station) .

 

The View Video cable is new and the Fuze does not do Audio Line out currently to it.  

 

We will review if this is possible in the future. 

OK, finally a definitive answer.  Thank you, that clears up a lot of confusion and speculation.

If the hardware is in place to support this and it’s just a matter of a FW tweak, then please, please, please consider this for a future FW release.  Or if a different cable is required then please release specs.  You would make a lot of people very, very happy.

Thanks again for clearing this up once and for all.

P.S. I don’t want people to think I’m down on the Fuze because of my line-out complaints.  I love my Fuze and consider it one of the best players on the market, line-out or no.  But with line-out, it would be darn near perfect.

Message Edited by Skinjob on 06-04-2008 03:18 PM

I recall seeing somewhere (I think at rockbox.org) that you have to connect 2 of the pins together in order to enable the line-out on the e200 series.  I don’t recall which 2 pins and wouldn’t recommend random trial and error.  Even if you knew which two pins to use, it’s not a hardware-only thing, it’s firmware-dependent.  If memory serves, someone was requesting the addition of a rockbox feature because the method he was using to enable the line-out on his e200 was working with the original firmware, but not with rockbox.  In other words, the Fuze firmware might not be enabling the line-out based on the same criteria as the e200, but it probably is the same criteria.  I’m guessing the docks and other accessories that make use of the line-out are signalling to the Sansa that they support line-out by connecting those 2 pins together.  The View might be enabling line-out all the time or it might be using some other technique to determine whether the a/v cable is connected.

Edit:  Just for clarification, by “2 of the pins” I refer to 2 of the pins on the 30-pin connector at the bottom of the player.

Message Edited by TheMarkster on 06-06-2008 09:10 AM

@themarkster wrote:

I recall seeing somewhere (I think at rockbox.org) that you have to connect 2 of the pins together in order to enable the line-out on the e200 series.  I don’t recall which 2 pins and wouldn’t recommend random trial and error.  Even if you knew which two pins to use, it’s not a hardware-only thing, it’s firmware-dependent.  If memory serves, someone was requesting the addition of a rockbox feature because the method he was using to enable the line-out on his e200 was working with the original firmware, but not with rockbox.  In other words, the Fuze firmware might not be enabling the line-out based on the same criteria as the e200, but it probably is the same criteria.  I’m guessing the docks and other accessories that make use of the line-out are signalling to the Sansa that they support line-out by connecting those 2 pins together.  The View might be enabling line-out all the time or it might be using some other technique to determine whether the a/v cable is connected.Message Edited by TheMarkster on 06-06-2008 09:10 AM

That’s my understanding as well.  That’s why I’m preying the Fuze is already wired that way and it’s just a matter of getting the firmware to respond correctly.

I got my Sansa PowerDock for my Sansa Fuze today and i can confirm,

that the Sansa Fuze does not support 'Line-out :cry:

I can adjust the volume with the wheel and the EQ settings

does also affect the ‘Line/Audio-out’.

This is very disappoint since my previous iPod-Mini does definitly

had ‘true’ line-out.

Besides that i’m pretty happy with the Fuze after using

it for about 1 week.

@Sansa-Team

Please fix that. A lot of people want THIS feature. Thanks.

JD

Remember that the old conventions of “line out” simply don’t apply with these new devices.  One would want line out (fixed versus variable) for one of two reasons: a set output level separate of the adjustable one, adjusted at the receiving end, or a cleaner signal path.

The latter consideration is vitually moot, as the EQ and gain stages are digital and resident in the device’s processor.  The gain level is adjustable in the final output stage of the D-A converter, rather than an outboard potentiometer or even an additional processor (usually an operational amp gain stage).

Thus, having control over the final output level can actually be preferable, as one has control over the signal.  No more overdrive / underdrive issues when connected to a dock with internal amplifier, or passing the signal to a home stereo, or an FM modulator.  SanDisk has opted for allowing control over the output level in the interest of compatibility.

In use, before plugging your headphones back in, simply load your next song, and press the play / pause button.  Prior to any surprises, rotate the volume via the scroll wheel to your normal range.  Then tap “play” to listen.

Bob  :smileyvery-happy: 

So Bob is almost correct here.

The Fuze outputs its signal to the Sansa Base station at Line out level and that does not change even though the volume changes while docked.  THe Fuze actually controls an amplifier located in the base station which is in series with the line out.  This same amplifier is also controlled by the IR remote.

Hope this clarifies. 

Thanks for clarifying this Bob.

In use, before plugging your headphones back in, simply load your next song, and press
the play / pause button. Prior to any surprises, rotate the volume via the scroll
wheel to your normal range. Then tap “play” to listen.

Well this is just not ‘user-friendly’ in my opinion. On other devices
you just have to plug your headphones back without thinking of turning
the volume down.

The Fuze outputs its signal to the Sansa Base station at Line out level and that
does not change even though the volume changes while docked. THe Fuze actually
controls an amplifier located in the base station which is in series with the
line out. This same amplifier is also controlled by the IR remote.

Also thanks for your comment Sansafix. I currently only have the Griffin PowerDock and
in fact it does change the audio out volume when i change the volume on the Fuze.

Besides that i noticed that it is just not possible to have a line-out adapter
cable which just works. Either the Griffin PowerDock or the Sansa Base Station
needs to be powered to enable the audio out.

It’s also that we won’t see a lot of 3rd party accessories for the Sansas
because (at least the Fuze) they do not output any voltage through the
dock connector. The iPod for example outputs 3.3V to drive accessories
through the dock connector (FM Transmitter, Remote Controls, etc…).

Well, that’s just my thoughts on this.

Regards,

JD

Variable output is fine with me (in fact can be handy in some situations) as long as it’s really a line level output and works over the Sansa AV cable (or similar cable).  A full blown dock is not really feasible or desireable in most car/on-the-go situations.  We just need a simple cable with a line level output, variable or otherwise.

Message Edited by Skinjob on 06-19-2008 10:56 AM

@skinjob wrote:
as long as it’s really a line level output and works over the Sansa AV cable (or similar cable).

Well, that’s the thing. This is not gonna to work!

@skinjob wrote:
We just need a simple cable with a line level output, variable or otherwise.

Exactly!

  

@jd24 wrote:


@skinjob wrote:
as long as it’s really a line level output and works over the Sansa AV cable (or similar cable).


Well, that’s the thing. This is not gonna to work!

Yeah, I know.  I’m the OP that actually tried the AV cable. :smiley:

Based on an earlier reply from Sansafix and knowing that the e200v2 and the View support this, I suspect it’s something that can be addressed in FW.  And if so, I’m sure the devs will address it soon.  Let’s just keep our fingers crossed that it’s not a hardware limitation.

Message Edited by Skinjob on 06-19-2008 03:03 PM