Fuze crashes trying to play mp3 after ogg

geochelone · January 16, 2009, 3:39pm

Hi everyone,

I have discovered a problem with my Sansa Fuze (firmware 01.01.22, 2GB). Trying to play a mp3 file after it played an ogg file, the player crashes (black screen, needs reset). This only happens on automatic track change, after the ogg file finished playing. Manual track change works fine.

Steps to reproduce:

Line up mp3 file behind ogg file (e.g. via playlist, by putting only two files on the player, etc.)
play ogg file
wait until ogg file finishes
player crashes

I have tried reformatting the player and reinstalling the firmware, to no apparent effect.

Any help is appreciated, if more information is needed (e.g. example files), I will gladly supply it.

Regards,

soenke

Message Edited by geochelone on 01-16-2009 07:40 AM

Edit: Not always reproducible, as initally claimed.

My testing setup was rather simplistic, it seems (too few files tested). The bug only appears with certain files (or combinations?).

Further testing is being conducted…

Message Edited by geochelone on 01-17-2009 10:59 AM

hazza · January 16, 2009, 7:11pm

Are you using the same 2 files? Have you tried 2 different files? What version of tags do they have? Does it do it the other way around, ogg first then MP3? Do the tags files have album art embedded?

I am pretty confident that the SanDisk ensured that the Fuze could switch from playing one format to the other. It sounds like it’s not perfected but just changing from one format to another should not be the cause.

If we could narrow down something like “Changing from a ogg file with IDv1 tags to an mp3 with IDv2 tags and embedded album art locks the fuze” then the SanDisk guys could work on a fix.

swimb · January 17, 2009, 12:11am

Its a known bug, theres some discussion on it in this thread here.

hazza · January 17, 2009, 3:18am

As I said, there must be some difference, I downloaded the Zip file from the other thread and it changed from one song to the next with no problems.

I have a 4G version 2 Fuze with the latest firmware v2.01.17… maybe it is only a problem on the v1 Fuze?

Message Edited by hazza on 01-17-2009 01:21 PM

fuze_owner_gb · January 17, 2009, 12:41pm

@swimb wrote:
Its a known bug, theres some discussion on it in this thread here.

Might be a known bug for some, but not for me. I always have a limited number of mp3’s on my machine in addition to the majority of ogg vorbis files. I have tried every possible scenario of playing mp3’s with ogg vorbis and can’t get my players to hiccup in the least.

Sounds more like a encoder issue to me.

neutron_bob · January 17, 2009, 3:33pm

It’s interesting that the freeze is occurring at the end of the file. Typically, data issues at the beginning, or more correctly, embedded at the beginning data area of the file, will zorch playback.

What encoding engine are you using, GB? Sounds like an encoding issue, I agree. Of course, it’s possible that this may be affected by a sensitivity in the firmware. Let’s see if we can nail down the encoder in question!

Bob :smileyvery-happy:

fuze_owner_gb · January 17, 2009, 3:52pm

@neutron_bob wrote:

It’s interesting that the freeze is occurring at the end of the file. Typically, data issues at the beginning, or more correctly, embedded at the beginning data area of the file, will zorch playback.

What encoding engine are you using, GB? Sounds like an encoding issue, I agree. Of course, it’s possible that this may be affected by a sensitivity in the firmware. Let’s see if we can nail down the encoder in question!

Bob :smileyvery-happy:

I either use the drag and drop program listed in my “signature” or the command-line offical oggenc2.exe found at Offical Ogg Vorbis website

I’ve never had a problem with either…

I use the latest version of LAME for any mp3 creation needs.

Message Edited by fuze_owner-GB on 01-17-2009 07:54 AM

geochelone · January 17, 2009, 6:54pm

Thanks for all the replies.

I am in the process of conducting more tests, though it might still take some time as I am rather busy at the moment.

But for now, my encoders are:

OGG (from ogginfo): Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20070622 (1.2.0), encoded via kio_audiocd

MP3: Lame 3.98.2 installed from debian-multimedia.org deb package.

Some older files are encoded with older versions, such as 3.96, if I recall correctly. Is there a way to get info about the encoder from a file as with ogginfo? In linux, if possible?

ID3 tag version is reported as 2.4. Are there different versions for OGG comments?

I will report the results of my more in depth testing as soon as possible.

Regards,

soenke

neutron_bob · January 17, 2009, 9:56pm

Outstanding. You have done well, Grasshopper. The Fuze is not yet configured to understand ID3v2.4 tags.

Download and install MP3Tag, a free application, and convert the ID3 tags to ID3v2.3 ISO 8859-1 (latin-1), and it might be just the ticket.

Bob

Message Edited by neutron_bob on 01-18-2009 06:22 AM

fuze_owner_gb · January 17, 2009, 10:14pm

@neutron_bob wrote:

Outstanding. You have done well, Grasshopper. The Fuze is not yet configured to understand ID3v2.4 tags.

Download and install ID3Tag, a free application, and convert the ID3 tags to ID3v2.3 ISO 8859-1 (latin-1), and it might be just the ticket.

Bob

Yup… that might be the culprit…

geochelone · January 18, 2009, 10:32am

Okay, I will give that a try. One more question before I convert all my tags: what would be the preferred character encoding? ISO-8859-1 or unicode? Just so that I don’t have to convert them all twice…

fuze_owner_gb · January 18, 2009, 10:39am

@geochelone wrote:
Okay, I will give that a try. One more question before I convert all my tags: what would be the preferred character encoding? ISO-8859-1 or unicode? Just so that I don’t have to convert them all twice…

Remember, we are still in troubleshooting mode here. I wouldn’t try to fix all of your collection “en masse” just yet. Convert some of your collection and see if that corrects the issue… Then, after it appears that the problem is solved, then you can do the rest.

I use ID3V2.3 using ISO-8859-1 and never had an issue with any of my files…

geochelone · January 19, 2009, 4:38pm

So,as promised, I have done some more testing.

I have ripped a track to .wav from CD and then encoded, witout tagging, directly from the command line by calling:

oggenc <infile> <outfile>
lame -V2 <infile> <outfile>
lame -b 192 <infile> <outfile>

These commands should encode the files with fairly standard values as ogg, VBR mp3 (quality value 2) and CBR mp3 (192 kbits/s), respectively.

Encoder versions:

oggenc --version says:
oggenc from vorbis-tools 1.2.0

lame --version says:
LAME 32bits version 3.98.2 (http://www.mp3dev.org/)

I have also made two playlists, where the ogg file is once played before the VBR mp3 file, and once before the CBR file.

Audio files were placed in the MUSIC directory, playlists in player root. All files were
transferred in MSC mode using cp.

For me, the playlist with the VBR mp3 file works fine, the other one leads to the freeze when finished playing the ogg file. This, so far, has been reproducible and has been tested several times with different files.

My Fuze was freshly formatted (using its internal “System Settings -> Format”
menu item) before copying anything.

It seems to me that the problem is caused by playing CBR mp3 after ogg.

So now I am a bit at a loss, for I am no expert in audio formats. What further tests could I conduct? Should I contact SanDisk supprt and send them the files to test?

Regards,

soenke

hazza · January 19, 2009, 9:54pm

@geochelone wrote:

It seems to me that the problem is caused by playing CBR mp3 after ogg.

soenke

Ahhh… now we are narrowing down the issue. I will take the same steps as yourself to see if I can reproduce the same symptoms and report back what version of programs I am running and the results etc etc.

hazza · January 27, 2009, 1:56am

@geochelone wrote:

So,as promised, I have done some more testing.

I have ripped a track to .wav from CD and then encoded, witout tagging, directly from the command line by calling:

oggenc <infile> <outfile>
lame -V2 <infile> <outfile>
lame -b 192 <infile> <outfile>

These commands should encode the files with fairly standard values as ogg, VBR mp3 (quality value 2) and CBR mp3 (192 kbits/s), respectively.

Encoder versions:

oggenc --version says:
oggenc from vorbis-tools 1.2.0

lame --version says:
LAME 32bits version 3.98.2 (http://www.mp3dev.org/)

It took me a while to remember to do this but I have tested it and do not get the same symptoms. I ripped a WAV file from CD, I then converted it to and Ogg, a VBR mp3 and a CBR mp3 using the same commands as you did.

My oggenc program is exactly the same version but my lame is 3.98 without the .2 on the end.

I used the Golistfor my playlist. I then created two playlists, one with the Ogg then the VBR, the other with the Ogg then the CBR. Both playlists worked fine.

sansafix · January 27, 2009, 10:11pm

Hmm Hazza has a v2 firmware which doesnt show the problem? Any more V1 users chime in?

hazza · January 28, 2009, 6:07am

@sansafix wrote:
Hmm Hazza has a v2 firmware which doesnt show the problem? Any more V1 users chime in?

ahhhh… surely you have a V1 Fuze lying around somewhere that you could confirm this “bug” this on?

sansafix · January 28, 2009, 5:50pm

We havent duplicated it.

fuze_owner_gb · January 28, 2009, 5:56pm

@sansafix wrote:
Hmm Hazza has a v2 firmware which doesnt show the problem? Any more V1 users chime in?

V1 here on two 8GB fuzes. Never a hiccup on either 2 units.

hazza · January 28, 2009, 11:22pm

@sansafix wrote:
We havent duplicated it.

What encoders do you use? Are they exactly the same ones as the OP mentions in this thread? Mine aren’t, dam close but not exact.

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