8 GB Fuse w/ 8 GB card won’t load without freezing

Hey, I’ve had a small collection of cheap MP3 players over the years, mostly Chinese-made, mostly RockChip-based, costing anywhere from $18 to $42 with up to 16 GB of flash drive, which all except one broke or got stolen, and although a few sounded great, they had many frustrating drawbacks. Buying the Sansa Fuze was a comparative luxury in terms of the features, and performance, heads over heels above anything I’ve had before.

The thing that sold me was the SD card slot, however it’s been a problem from the start. I have not been able to consistently load CD’s on my new, class 2, 8GB Sandisk SDHC card. All I’m interested in is drag and drop basics.

The flash drive works fine up to within 7 GB of capacity. Very happy with it. My aim was to use it for music almost exclusively, stored in WMA files for the sake of space savings, although that’s started to become less an issue.

The problem that I have is with loading music on the SD card with consistency, before the files become corrupted, or the Fuse shuts down and goes to the white screen mode. It sounds like this is a problem for a fairly large contingent of Fuse owners.

Here are some things I’ve tried as work-arounds:

Installed both of the most recent firmware updates, including the latest

Switched to MSC mode, instead of MTP or auto USB mode

Formatted and reformatted the SD many times, using my laptop pc with vista & windows player 11, connected to the Fuse

Used the Fuse itself to format the SD card

Used an SD adapter with my laptop to format the micro card from my laptop

Transferred increasingly smaller numbers of CD’s down to a few CD’s at a time, still eventually resulting in empty files, very long re-fresh times, and always eventually a freeze - white screen from which I could not recover

Performed many DiskChecks, which basically sends me in circles with the Fuse …adding a few more files at a time, until it craps out again 

The most that I’ve been able to load on the SD card is about 30 to 40 Cds, when it begins acting up. There doesn’t seem to be a consistency as to which CD/files it likes or not, and I don’t get anywhere even near filling the card

I also tried exchanging the Fuse for a new one from the store

There’s probably a few more things that I’ve forgotten after pouring over forums and the Sandisk site.  BTW I tried loading a few jpg’s pics to the SD card also, and it didn’t like that either, but I have been so focused on the music part, I’m not sure what the limitations are there.

I have not scanned all my music files for non-conforming tags, but might consider that. I’m torn about buying a different MP3 player instead, with a larger flash drive, maybe even the 16 GB View (with it’s own problems), so I don’t have to deal with a feature, that I thought would be a strength. Situation is that I naively purchased an extra data/power cable, car & ac adapter, and plastic case …not like it broke the bank though.  I’m finding that the competition in this class of MP3’s is not so great with many potential weaknesses. The16 GB Zen Mosaic, and Sony Walkman were the only other contenders besides the 16 GB View …although the Walkman doesn’t have the output for a car or home stereo, the way I understand it.

I don’t like giving up on things like this, but I may just be at that point of throwing in the towel, having spent a good 10 weeks or so messing with the Fuze …although it is impressive, when it works.   Honestly I had an easier time buying a new car a few years ago, and rarely run into a computer-oriented glitch that I can’t resolve.

I would consider buying a higher class SD card, 6 instead of 2, but I’m not convinced it would make a real difference. Any other ideas, would be appreciated. I’m not willing to jump thru many more major hoops, but maybe some smaller ones.

Thanks, TMT

Message Edited by burntorange on 07-25-2010 09:39 PM

Message Edited by burntorange on 07-25-2010 09:39 PM

Try using this program to format the card.

http://www.sdcard.org/consumers/formatter/

8 GB cards won’t hold a full 8 GB. Keep track of the actual free space on the card as you are adding files to it.

If you can get 7GB on without problems, why not just use that much? It sounds like you’re trying to overstuff the card.

There’s always the possibility that it’s a bad card, too. Have you tried a different one? 

You may also have tags the unit doesn’t like. With mp3tag you can batch retag everything, to ID3v2.3 ISO-8859-1 (setting under Write)  pretty quickly. Or do it when you rip each album.

The class of the card won’t matter–that’s for read/write speed, and 2 is easily fast enough for the Fuze.

Here’s why you can’t get a full 8GB on an “8GB” card, from Wikipedia’s “gigabyte” entry.

Consumer confusion

Since the early 2000s most of consumer hard drive capacities are grouped in certain size classes measured in gigabytes. The exact capacity of a given drive is usually some number above or below the class designation. Although most manufacturers of hard disk drives and flash-memory disk devices define 1 gigabyte as 1000000000bytes, software like Microsoft Windows reports size in gigabytes by dividing the total capacity in bytes by 1073741824, while still reporting the result with the symbol “GB”. This practice is a cause of confusion, as a hard disk with a manufacturer-rated capacity of 400 gigabytes might be reported by the operating system as only “372 GB”, for instance.

burntorange wrote:

The flash drive works fine up to within 7 GB of capacity. Very happy with it. My aim was to use it for music almost exclusively, stored in WMA files for the sake of space savings, although that’s started to become less an issue.

7.3 GB (or therabouts) is all the usable space you’re going to get on an 8GB card.

burntorange wrote:

Here are some things I’ve tried as work-arounds:

 

Used the Fuse itself to format the SD card

Don’t think this is possible.

burntorange wrote:

Performed many DiskChecks, which basically sends me in circles with the Fuse …adding a few more files at a time, until it craps out again 

Probably best to run ChkDsk on these files while they are on your computer, so it can either fix them or you’ll know they’re un-recoverable so you can rip a new copy before you waste all the time transferring files that won’t play to the card.

burntorange wrote:

I also tried exchanging the Fuse for a new one from the store.

This logically suggests that the problem does not lie with the Fuze itself then. Maybe you have a defective or bogus (counterfeit) card or there is indeed a problem with the files themselves. You might try a different bit-rate, format and/or ripping program than .wma & WMP.

I doubt you’d have any better luck with the View (just peruse the board here and you’ll see what I mean) and the speed or class rating of the card won’t make any difference in what you’re experiencing.

burntorange wrote:

The flash drive works fine up to within 7 GB of capacity. Very happy with it. My aim was to use it for music almost exclusively, stored in WMA files for the sake of space savings, although that’s started to become less an issue.

7.3 GB (or therabouts) is all the usable space you’re going to get on an 8GB card.

burntorange wrote:

Here are some things I’ve tried as work-arounds:

 

Used the Fuse itself to format the SD card

Don’t think this is possible.

burntorange wrote:

Performed many DiskChecks, which basically sends me in circles with the Fuse …adding a few more files at a time, until it craps out again 

Probably best to run ChkDsk on these files while they are on your computer, so it can either fix them or you’ll know they’re un-recoverable so you can rip a new copy before you waste all the time transferring files that won’t play to the card.

burntorange wrote:

I also tried exchanging the Fuse for a new one from the store.

This logically suggests that the problem does not lie with the Fuze itself then. Maybe you have a defective or bogus (counterfeit) card or there is indeed a problem with the files themselves. WMP by default inserts ‘copy protection’  (DRM muck) into it’s .wma files when you rip CD’s using that format. You have to manually change it not to. This may be your issue when transferring these tracks to an external memory card. If changing this setting doesn’t work, you might try a different bit-rate, format and/or ripping program than .wma & WMP.

I doubt you’d have any better luck with the View (just peruse the board here and you’ll see what I mean) and the speed or class rating of the card won’t make any difference in what you’re experiencing.

First off thanks for all the great ideas. Sorry if I gave the impression that I was able to fill the SD card up to 7GB …never got past even 1/3 full.  What I meant to say, was that I was able to fill the Fuse’s resident-flash drive up to 7GB. So I am very satisfied with that side of the equation. In fact it works amazingly well, and there are few if any format compatibility issues.

JK98 …appreciate the link for the program to format the SD card.  I will try it.

Black Rectangle …thanks for the suggestions, including batch re-tagging everything using the recommended app, while stilll on the computer.

Also thanks for the reassurance that the class of the SD card is not a likely culprit. Unfortunately I don’t have an extra …even in my current cell phone.  My hunch is that the Sandisk micro SD that I have, is probably fine, because it functions perfectly transferring files to and from my laptop and pc, just not to and from the Fuse. 

Tapeworm (gotta laugh at the handle) …thanks for the ideas, including running DiskCheck on my audio files before adding them to the Fuse.

Again, I wasn’t keen about spending more on another micro card, unless I have some better evidence that my new Sandisk 8 GB micro is the source of the problem, and until I try some of these other ideas.  As I mentioned, it evidently works on the level of transferring files to and from my computers. It’s just not working with the Fuse.

Regarding using the Fuse to format itself, yes, it actually works. The sequence is:  Settings/System Settings/Format

As to how well it works, I’m not sure, but several forums suggested that this was the most reliable way to format the Fuse.

I’ll post the results, when I get some time to play with the Fuse again this week.

Thanks again, TMT

PS  I do groan at idea of reformatting all my files & cds.  I assume that all would have to be re-ripped.  When there are no more space limitations even for someone of modest means, I may revisit that idea.  As it is I have about 25 GB of music available, which is small potatoes compared to many of you.  Funny thing is that with all the time I’ve been reloading and reformatting the Fuse, I probabably could have re-formatted my music files twice over.  Wish there were better up-front support from Sandisk.

“Settings/System Settings/Format”

That formats the player’s main memory, not the card. If your player’s USB mode is set to MSC, when you connect it to the pc, the card should appear as a seperate drive, and the player’s main memory as a separate drive. Each will have its own drive letter. You need to fill each separately, but when using the player the contents of the two will be integrated.

“That formats the player’s main memory, not the card. If your player’s USB mode is set to MSC, when you connect it to the pc, the card should appear as a seperate drive, and the player’s main memory as a separate drive. Each will have its own drive letter. You need to fill each separately, but when using the player the contents of the two will be integrated.”

Funny, I was thinking about that today, and thought I might have been off base, which I was.  Thanks for setting me straight.

One thing I could still use is a little guidance on what types of settings I should consider for _editing tags_ to best conform to the Fuse (??) 

Also wondered whether there is any advantage to converting WMA files to MP3 using third party software, assuming these apps do what they say they do.  Maybe one of the tag editors also performs this function?

TMT 

burntorange wrote:

 

One thing I could still use is a little guidance on what types of settings I should consider for _editing tags_ to best conform to the Fuse (??) 

 

Also wondered whether there is any advantage to converting WMA files to MP3 using third party software, assuming these apps do what they say they do.  Maybe one of the tag editors also performs this function?

 

ID3 tag setting = ID3v2.3 ISO-8859-1.

No advantage at all. Unless you consider converting one lossy format to another lossy format resulting in a distinct reduction in sound quality an advantage.

MP3TAG is the best dedicated tag editor but no, it does not do this.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 …ID3 tag setting = ID3v2.3 ISO-8859-1

 

…No advantage at all. Unless you consider converting one lossy format to another lossy format resulting in a distinct reduction in sound quality an advantage.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Regarding problems transfering wma files to my Fuse 8GB SD micro,

 

I used the Panasonic app to format my sd card, which took a few seconds …not sure if that is good, bad, or indifferent.  Vista takes about 10 mins. to do the same.

 

ChkDsk’d my whole laptop hard drive, including the music files.

 

Downloaded and played a bit with MP3TAG, which is very interesting, and fun retrieving cover art, although I thought I was surprised to see it missing on some files.  Like the cover art retrieve function, which is more systematic than grabbing covers from amazon to drag to wmp11.  Actually I scanned a dozen or so covers that I couldn’t find too.  I could see it being a great tool, if I decide to re-rip my CD’s at some point, and move on to a more accurate/stable format, especially when the cost of device storage heads a little further south.

 

Regarding the original mission …to convert all my wma files to the recommended format setting, I’m not sure how to guage my effort so far. 

 

Under Tools/Options, I…

 

checked Read all formats

checked Write only to v2.3 ISO 8859-1

& checked Remove no formats

 

I think I’m missing a step, as it only took a second, even tho my sampling size was a single CD.  I searched the MP3TAG forum/faqs/& help files, but couldn’t find step-by-step advice or figure it out on my own.  I did look in the format column for cues, and under View/Extended Tags, but didn’t recognize any changes, or maybe don’t know what to look for.

 

Anyway, if you could offer any further advice, it would be greatly appreciated.  The MP3TAG support forum seems to be closed to posting for now. 

Thanks, TMT

Mp3tag does work fast. It only takes seconds per album.And you can see that it has worked when you reopen the files and see that ID3v2.3 is in the tag version. 

Going back to the beginning, here’s what I suggest for you.

Format the card from the computer to FAT32. (Right-click on it, Format…) You can do it in a card reader or with the Fuze in MSC mode.

Just to test, take an album you have retagged with mp3 tag and put in the Fuze’s internal memory to make sure it plays. 

Take that album off the Fuze, put it on the card, test. 

Then add more retagged albums to the card. 

You will eventually run into a limit on the number of files the Fuze can index,  because when it was made it wasn’t expecting the large-capacity cards now available. It won’t crash–it just won’t list everything you’ve got (I don’t know if they’re visible in Folders view under Music). This only happens if you have very low-bitrate files–I have a 16GB card full of mp3s (at 192 kbps and 256 kbps) and everything is listed.

But if this doesn’t work, then there is something wrong with the card itself. I swap a few 8GB and 16GB cards in and out of my Fuze with no problems–in fact, I just tried one from a digital recorder, with tags that haven’t gone through mp3tag, and that also worked fine. 

It just occurred to me that there’s always the possibility that there is something wrong with the slot, a hardware problem for which you’d have to send the Fuze back to Sandisk. (Or just stick to the internal storage.)  But if your computer can read the card in the unit that would seem to be a very slim possibility indeed. 

In future, I would rip to .mp3 rather than .wma  because Windows Means Annoying. But definitely don’t reconvert files that play because they will sound worse after a second conversion. 

Mp3tag does work fast. It only takes seconds per album.And you can see that it has worked when you reopen the files and see that ID3v2.3 is in the tag version. 

 

Going back to the beginning, here’s what I suggest for you.

 

Format the card from the computer to FAT32. (Right-click on it, Format…) You can do it in a card reader or with the Fuze in MSC mode.

 

Just to test, take an album you have retagged with mp3 tag and put in the Fuze’s internal memory to make sure it plays. 

 

Take that album off the Fuze, put it on the card, test. 

 

Then add more retagged albums to the card. 

 

You will eventually run into a limit on the number of files the Fuze can index,  because when it was made it wasn’t expecting the large-capacity cards now available. It won’t crash–it just won’t list everything you’ve got (I don’t know if they’re visible in Folders view under Music). This only happens if you have very low-bitrate files–I have a 16GB card full of mp3s (at 192 kbps and 256 kbps) and everything is listed.

 

But if this doesn’t work, then there is something wrong with the card itself. I swap a few 8GB and 16GB cards in and out of my Fuze with no problems–in fact, I just tried one from a digital recorder, with tags that haven’t gone through mp3tag, and that also worked fine. 

 

It just occurred to me that there’s always the possibility that there is something wrong with the slot, a hardware problem for which you’d have to send the Fuze back to Sandisk. (Or just stick to the internal storage.)  But if your computer can read the card in the unit that would seem to be a very slim possibility indeed. 

 

In future, I would rip to .mp3 rather than .wma  because Windows Means Annoying. But definitely don’t reconvert files that play because they will sound worse after a second conversion. 

Thanks again for the ideas.  My files are all at 192 kbps & I’ve been using fat 32 to format the 8gb card with vista.  This is my second new 8gb Fuse with the same problem, so I’m hoping it’s not the unit.  I guess it could still be the SD card, but as I said, it works fine and fast dragging and dropping from a card reader to and from my pc and laptop.  Also my computer does read the card in the Fuse up to the point, where I’ve loaded about a dozen cds and it starts getting buggy.  Hope to get back to it tonight a bit and over the weekend.

burntorange wrote:

 

Thanks again for the ideas.  My files are all at 192 kbps & I’ve been using fat 32 to format the 8gb card with vista.  This is my second new 8gb Fuse with the same problem, so I’m hoping it’s not the unit.  I guess it could still be the SD card, but as I said, it works fine and fast dragging and dropping from a card reader to and from my pc and laptop.  Also my computer does read the card in the Fuse up to the point, where I’ve loaded about a dozen cds and it starts getting buggy.  Hope to get back to it tonight a bit and over the weekend.

 

Here’s another one . . . when you want to quote what someone said for referemce, use the Quote button in the upper right -hand cormer of the message pane (see above). It makes it a lot easier and clearer for people to follow the thread. :wink:

Back on topic . . . It’s sounding more and more like a bad or bogus card.

Just my

burntorange wrote:

 

Thanks again for the ideas.  My files are all at 192 kbps & I’ve been using fat 32 to format the 8gb card with vista.  This is my second new 8gb Fuse with the same problem, so I’m hoping it’s not the unit.  I guess it could still be the SD card, but as I said, it works fine and fast dragging and dropping from a card reader to and from my pc and laptop.  Also my computer does read the card in the Fuse up to the point, where I’ve loaded about a dozen cds and it starts getting buggy.  Hope to get back to it tonight a bit and over the weekend.

 

Here’s another one . . . when you want to quote what someone said for referemce, use the Quote button in the upper right-hand corner of the message pane (see above). It makes it a lot easier and clearer for people to follow the conversation and who said what.  :wink:

Back on topic . . . It’s sounding more and more like a bad or bogus card.

Just my

Test the card with h2testw . Google around for it. The original site is in German, but it’s a legit program.

Here’s one place to download:

h2testw

Or from links in here: H2testw blog

Or this link: 

http://www.heise.de/ct/Redaktion/bo/downloads/h2testw_1.4.zip

@tapeworm wrote:


@burntorange wrote:

 

Thanks again for the ideas.  My files are all at 192 kbps & I’ve been using fat 32 to format the 8gb card with vista.  This is my second new 8gb Fuse with the same problem, so I’m hoping it’s not the unit.  I guess it could still be the SD card, but as I said, it works fine and fast dragging and dropping from a card reader to and from my pc and laptop.  Also my computer does read the card in the Fuse up to the point, where I’ve loaded about a dozen cds and it starts getting buggy.  Hope to get back to it tonight a bit and over the weekend.

 


Here’s another one . . . when you want to quote what someone said for referemce, use the Quote button in the upper right-hand corner of the message pane (see above). It makes it a lot easier and clearer for people to follow the conversation and who said what.  :wink:

 

 

Back on topic . . . It’s sounding more and more like a bad or bogus card.

 

Just my

Sorry, figured out the _quote_ function, but accidentally clicked the _solution button_, not knowing it’s a done deal.  I guess I’m about as screwed as it gets.  I’ve been messing around with batch tagging my wma files, but not convinced it’s the source of the problem.  I’ve started shopping for another 8gb micro card, as I don’t think I can do much more, besides take the player back.  Good thing is that the retailer gives you 3 months to return it …no questions asked.  I’d still like to make it work, but I’m at the point of diminishing returns …plus dealing with a water main break yesterday, a flood two weeks ago, and a sick dog.  I just wanna listen to some music.

@black_rectangle wrote:

Test the card with h2testw . Google around for it. The original site is in German, but it’s a legit program.

 

 

Here’s one place to download:

 

h2testw

 

 

Or from links in here: H2testw blog

 

Or this link: 

 

http://www.heise.de/ct/Redaktion/bo/downloads/h2testw_1.4.zip

Thanks, I’ll try that tomorrow!!

burntorange wrote:


@tapeworm wrote:
Sorry, figured out the _quote_ function, but accidentally clicked the _solution button_, not knowing it’s a done deal.   I guess I’m about as screwed as it gets.  I’ve been messing around with batch tagging my wma files, but not convinced it’s the source of the problem.  I’ve started shopping for another 8gb micro card, as I don’t think I can do much more, besides take the player back.  Good thing is that the retailer gives you 3 months to return it …no questions asked.   I’d still like to make it work, but I’m at the point of diminishing returns …plus dealing with a water main break yesterday, a flood two weeks ago, and a sick dog.  I just wanna listen to some music.

You, as the OP can change the Accepted Solution status in the Options (upper right-hand corner of post).

I’d thoroughly check out the card or try another one first. It’d be silly to return the player and get another one, only to find out you have the same issue with the new one.