Hi everybody,
what is your experience, thoughts on the built-in / not-replacable battery of most models and a replacable battery? I am still undecided between the Fuze and the e260 V2. I currently have both for test purposes: the Fuze’s sound quality seems a bit better (especially Ogg support is great), but I also like the e260’s sturdy housing and its replacable battery (makes it less a “disposable” product").
Regards.
I like the idea of a replaceable battery, but want a player that uses a standard inexpensive one such as a AA or AAA that can be charged up to 4 at a time in an external charger. The proprietary replaceable battery that the E260 uses isn’t so cheap or so easy to find, and in most other ways the Fuze is a better player than the E260.
“but I also like the e260’s sturdy housing and its replacable battery (makes it less a “disposable” product” 
."
This depends on the availability of batteries for the E260, which might not be the case a few years from now. Buying extra batteries now won’t help, as lion batteries die over time whether they are used or not.
@gravelhopper wrote:
Hi everybody,
what is your experience, thoughts on the built-in / not-replacable battery of most models and a replacable battery? I am still undecided between the Fuze and the e260 V2. I currently have both for test purposes: the Fuze’s sound quality seems a bit better (especially Ogg support is great), but I also like the e260’s sturdy housing and its replacable battery (makes it less a “disposable” product").
Regards.
The e-series is also “end of life” which doesn’t just mean they’re not building them anymore, but also means there will be no more firmware updates. The Fuze is intended as the next generation of the e-series, and presumably 2 or 3 years down the line, when the battery tires, there will be something much better available for the same price or less than the Fuze costs now. I’m quite happy with mine:smiley:
Aren’t the Li-Poly batteries supposed to outlast Li-Ion? The biggest problem with Li-Ion batteries was that they would die on their own at about 3 years, regardless of how many times you’ve discharged them. I have a 4-year-old iPod with a battery life of about an hour and a half (i.e. pretty useless). I’m hoping the Fuze will last longer.
The iPod is kind of a bulky old brick, so I didn’t bother to replace the battery.
In all those years of owning the iPod, I heard the constant complaint of a not-easily-replaceable battery. There have been players that did have replaceable batteries, and they never sold well. People like thin.
@marvin_martian wrote:
@gravelhopper wrote:
Hi everybody,
what is your experience, thoughts on the built-in / not-replacable battery of most models and a replacable battery? I am still undecided between the Fuze and the e260 V2. I currently have both for test purposes: the Fuze’s sound quality seems a bit better (especially Ogg support is great), but I also like the e260’s sturdy housing and its replacable battery (makes it less a “disposable” product").
Regards.
The e-series is also “end of life” which doesn’t just mean they’re not building them anymore, but also means there will be no more firmware updates. The Fuze is intended as the next generation of the e-series, and presumably 2 or 3 years down the line, when the battery tires, there will be something much better available for the same price or less than the Fuze costs now. I’m quite happy with mine:smiley:
Exactly. After a few more firmware updates, the fuze will be an incredibly solid player with the minor bugs solved and important new features being implemented(hopefully folder browsing and gapless playback). There will be other players, but the fuze will always be the fuze and even in it’s early life, it’s an excellent player.
Afterall, “Rome wasn’t built in a day.”
“In all those years of owning the iPod, I heard the constant complaint of a not-easily-replaceable battery. There have been players that did have replaceable batteries, and they never sold well. People like thin.”
Some people are that way, however others are more interested in performance and features than thinness. It amazes me how many people are more interested in how their digital camera looks than how the photos it takes look. I would greatly prefer and ugly camera that takes beutiful photos than a beautiful camera that takes ugly photos. A thin mp3 player won’t make you any thinner.
I had never owned an mp3 player with a built in battery before my Connect witch I bought last year, and that battery was a major plus for me. I have an RCA Lyra and a Creative MuVo, both use AAA size batteries, I love these but I hate going thru 4 batteries a month in both players. It got expensive. I like the rechargable and in the 3 years before this one dies I can save up for the next generation
@conversionbox wrote:
. I have an RCA Lyra and a Creative MuVo, both use AAA size batteries, I love these but I hate going thru 4 batteries a month in both players. It got expensive. I like the rechargable and in the 3 years before this one dies I can save up for the next generation
Rechargeable AAA’s are pretty cheap. They can charge in as little as 15 minutes, and if you have a spare your player is ready to go in seconds. If your built-in lithium battery is flat, you’re stuck on the charger for a few hours.
"Conversionbox wrote:
. I have an RCA Lyra and a Creative MuVo, both use AAA size batteries, I love these but I hate going thru 4 batteries a month in both players. It got expensive. I like the rechargable and in the 3 years before this one dies I can save up for the next generation
Rechargeable AAA’s are pretty cheap. They can charge in as little as 15 minutes, and if you have a spare your player is ready to go in seconds. If your built-in lithium battery is flat, you’re stuck on the charger for a few hours."
Exactly! I use AA nimh batteries in my digital camera since it takes 4 at a time and I can go through a few sets in one day if I take many photos since I use the display extensively, however with devices that get plenty of run time on just one AA or AAA battery I get lazy and use alkalines. Some places do charge high prices for alkaline batteries. I have seen people pay $5 or more for a 4 pack at some convenience stores. Places like Costco often have a 40 pack of alkalines for under $10. Some $1 stores sell 4 packs of alkaline batteries. So if one shops carefully they can probably get alkaline batteries for 25 cents each or less. They are good for a few years, so one can buy a bunch of them at a time. One can buy a charger with 4 nimh rechargeable batteries for around $20 on Amazon.
Why is it that digital cameras and cell phones use a battery that is user replaceable and spares are readily available, yet many mp3 players have a built in battery? About the only cell phone I can think of with a non replaceable battery is the iphone. There are many digital cameras that use AA batteries, yet I can’t even find one decent mp3 player that uses AA batteries. Canon makes some models of digital cameras that have a 2.5" screen and a full sized SDHC card slot yet still fit in a shirt pocket. Why can’t I find mp3 players like that? I had some old mp3 players that use a AAA battery which I gave away since they had just 512 meg of storage. They are still useful, especially for listening to lower bitrate podcasts. If they had built in batteries instead, they may have ended up in the trash can instead.
@jk98 wrote:
Some people are that way, however others are more interested in performance and features than thinness.
Thinness is a feature and a pretty key one in a portable product. The three features I wanted in a DAP were great sound quality, enough capacity to store all my music and for it to be as thin as possible (and in that order of priority). The Fuze ticks the first and last box now and hopefully the middle one soon. I definitely would not have bought it is it used standard replacable batteries however.
The camera analogy is interesting. I use two cameras and two music systems. My DSLR and home sound system are my main tools for their respective jobs, but I accept a compromise between quality and portability from my DAP and my pocket cameras. Both produce fairly good quality results and I can use each in places where the main systems just wouldn’t be practical.
Message Edited by Fifer on 12-17-2008 04:26 PM
“The camera analogy is interesting.”
I guess mp3 players are still viewed as being just music players, and music is being viewed as something optional, and not such an inconvenience if the battery runs out and the player can’t be used until after it is recharged. Some use an mp3 player to play lectures though, and are very inconvenienced if their player’s battery is out of power and they can’t listen to the lectures when they want to. Notice that for many years things like electric toothbrushes used a built in battery, yet the walkman tape players, portable CD players, and portable minidisk players used AA batteries. The early mp3 players also used a AA or AAA battery. After the ipod was introduced though, other brands of players started using a built in battery, while some others used a rechargeable battery that was replaceable, but was still proprietary.
@jk98 wrote:
@"Conversionbox wrote:
. I have an RCA Lyra and a Creative MuVo, both use AAA size batteries, I love these but I hate going thru 4 batteries a month in both players. It got expensive. I like the rechargable and in the 3 years before this one dies I can save up for the next generation
Rechargeable AAA’s are pretty cheap. They can charge in as little as 15 minutes, and if you have a spare your player is ready to go in seconds. If your built-in lithium battery is flat, you’re stuck on the charger for a few hours."
Exactly! I use AA nimh batteries in my digital camera since it takes 4 at a time and I can go through a few sets in one day if I take many photos since I use the display extensively, however with devices that get plenty of run time on just one AA or AAA battery I get lazy and use alkalines. Some places do charge high prices for alkaline batteries. I have seen people pay $5 or more for a 4 pack at some convenience stores. Places like Costco often have a 40 pack of alkalines for under $10. Some $1 stores sell 4 packs of alkaline batteries. So if one shops carefully they can probably get alkaline batteries for 25 cents each or less. They are good for a few years, so one can buy a bunch of them at a time. One can buy a charger with 4 nimh rechargeable batteries for around $20 on Amazon.
Why is it that digital cameras and cell phones use a battery that is user replaceable and spares are readily available, yet many mp3 players have a built in battery? About the only cell phone I can think of with a non replaceable battery is the iphone. There are many digital cameras that use AA batteries, yet I can’t even find one decent mp3 player that uses AA batteries. Canon makes some models of digital cameras that have a 2.5" screen and a full sized SDHC card slot yet still fit in a shirt pocket. Why can’t I find mp3 players like that? I had some old mp3 players that use a AAA battery which I gave away since they had just 512 meg of storage. They are still useful, especially for listening to lower bitrate podcasts. If they had built in batteries instead, they may have ended up in the trash can instead.
I dont have that issue… I have the sansa wall charger and ther car hook up plus who goes anywhere without a comouter? See thats the thing… Why would you buy a product and not the accessories? When i am on the go I put the car charger in, When I am at home work school the park a restarunt I use my laptop, if I cant use that I use the wall charger, and it it gets low enough to need a few hours to charge then I plug it in at night. I like to listen when Im going to bed but… If it needs that much charge It wont make it through the night.
I have a desktop pc. While I do use it every day, others might only use their pc once a week or so, and don’t want to turn it on just to charge a player. Keeping track of remaing battery life, remembering to charge a player when the battery is low, and setting aside the time to do it when I am home with my pc is a nuisance. I would much rather keep a AAA battery based player and two spare batteries in a coat pocket. Then all I have to do is remember to replace the spare batteries after they are consumed. I take two or 3 spares in case a battery is defective, or in case I forget to replace a spare soon after it is used so there is still a spare with me.
@jk98 wrote:
I have a desktop pc. While I do use it every day, others might only use their pc once a week or so, and don’t want to turn it on just to charge a player. Keeping track of remaing battery life, remembering to charge a player when the battery is low, and setting aside the time to do it when I am home with my pc is a nuisance. I would much rather keep a AAA battery based player and two spare batteries in a coat pocket.
A wall wart charger with a USB output can be had on eBay for not much more than the cost of a few batteries. In five years, I doubt I’ve let a rechargable player run out of juice more than two or three times in very regular use. I accept that others have different habits and preferences, but I suspect those wanting a DAP using standard batteries are in the minority I’m afraid.
"A wall wart charger with a USB output can be had on eBay for not much more than the cost of a few batteries. In five years, I doubt I’ve let a rechargable player run out of juice more than two or three times in very regular use. I accept that others have different habits and preferences, but I suspect those wanting a DAP using standard batteries are in the minority I’m afraid. "
Not really. Perhaps they are not vocal enough, but would buy a AA or AAA battery based player if a good one was avalable. Many people still don’t know about nimh rechargeable AA and AAA batteries, and think AA or AAA battery means an alkaline battery. Notice that the Canon A series digital cameras which use AA batteries are quite popular, although Canon also makes many camera models that use a lion battery(although those lion batteries are user replaceable, and spares are easy enough to find, although they aren’t that cheap. Some of the Canon lion battery models are common enough though, so that cheaper generics can be found).
Why must an mp3 player with a card slot support video and have a bright screen which consumes plenty of power, or else be like the Slotmusic player and have no screen at all? Why can’t it have a basic screen like on the Clip, or perhaps one even more basic like on the m250? I would prefer a screen like on the m250 that is on all the time vs a bright screen that is off most of the time.
Message Edited by JK98 on 12-17-2008 01:50 PM
Message Edited by JK98 on 12-17-2008 01:55 PM
I dont have that issue… I have the sansa wall charger and ther car hook up plus who goes anywhere without a comouter? See thats the thing… Why would you buy a product and not the accessories? When i am on the go I put the car charger in, When I am at home work school the park a restarunt I use my laptop, if I cant use that I use the wall charger, and it it gets low enough to need a few hours to charge then I plug it in at night. I like to listen when Im going to bed but… If it needs that much charge It wont make it through the night.
It sounds like you are always carrying at least a handful of accessories so your player can be a quarter inch smaller. And that makes sense how?
If you have a routine that you are always around AC (or auto) power with your charger when you need it then you are ok, at the cost of some of the essence of portability. As I said before, if you get to the point of being flat, you are stuck by that power for a few hours to get a full charge. If I’m on vacation or some trip by plane, access to power when and where convenient isn’t always in the cards.
My Sansa does have the internal battery, so next vacation my solution will probably be to haul a box of standard batteries with a USB socket in the side.
@jk98 wrote:
Not really. Perhaps they are not vocal enough, but would buy a AA or AAA battery based player if a good one was avalable. Many people still don’t know about nimh rechargeable AA and AAA batteries, and think AA or AAA battery means an alkaline battery.
Are we maybe guessing that? I don’t recall people wanting thin players being particularly vocal either. I suspect manufacturers respond to market research and sales rather than customer protests or demands. Fact is, there have been DAPs which use standard batteries, but they’ve never sold well.
@jk98 wrote:
Why must an mp3 player with a card slot support video and have a bright screen which consumes plenty of power, or else be like the Slotmusic player and have no screen at all? Why can’t it have a basic screen like on the Clip, or perhaps one even more basic like on the m250? I would prefer a screen like on the m250 that is on all the time vs a bright screen that is off most of the time.
I’m with you here. I want a DAP which plays music and has a display which tells me what’s playing. Video, internet, games and text readers are of little interest to me. That said, I do think the battery life of the Fuze is pretty decent and I suspect the colour screen doesn’t consume terribly much power. Is the battery life of the Clip much greater than the Fuze?
Message Edited by Fifer on 12-17-2008 07:11 PM
The Clip probably has a much lower capacity battery than the Fuze, so that even though the Fuze screen probably consumes much more power than the one on the Clip, the Fuze still gets longer battery life. Think of how short the Fuze battery life would be if the screen was on all the time.
Fuze = 24 Hrs, Clip = 15 hours.
@sansafix wrote:
Fuze = 24 Hrs, Clip = 15 hours.
Which would make sense seeing how the Clip is 1/2 the size of the Fuze.
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