16Gb Fuze+ (+32Gb uSDHC) collapses when loaded up

EDIT (1 Oct '10): see post #30 for info about Sandisk tech support investigating these problems.

EDIT: new info.  By waiting a while and re-pressing the Play button to refresh the screen due to very sluggish response, I was able to scroll to the Songs screen under Music.  However, there it shows 9,691 songs (vs. 9,737 shown in Info).  I scrolled up to the asterisk to Shuffle All and pressed Play, but it’s now unresponsive again.  Is this perhaps a corrupted database, tag problem or something else I can fix?

Original posting:

I just received my 16Gb Fuze+ yesterday (shipped with the latest firmware) and added my 32Gb uSDHC (Sandisk brand) expansion card, for a nominal total of 48Gb.  My music collection is about 38Gb, so this is the flash capacity I’ve been waiting for, at long last, to carry my entire collection.

I have loaded, reformatted, reloaded, reformatted and reloaded again - but every time I’m finished the Fuze+ just falls to its knees and quits.

I’m loading 38,285Mb (37.38Gb), 9,737 songs, 1,413 artists, 813 albums, no playlists, no photos, no videos, no podcasts, no audiobooks or anything else but 100% 128Kb WMA-ripped (no DRM) music files.  I have ripped my entire CD collection exactly the same way and have spent a lot of time cleaning it up.

Once the files are loaded, the unit takes about 10-15 minutes “Loading card” to rebuild the database after disconnecting from USB and eventually goes to the main Music screen.  I can scroll to the Card and Settings screens (I turned off all the others) and examine the Info subscreen under Settings.

If I select Music though, it takes about 15 seconds to bring up a new screen of Artists.  If I then swipe left to go to Albums it takes another 15-20 seconds.  If I try to go to Songs, or do anything else, it does nothing for about 20 seconds, then the screen goes black and I have to press Power for 20 seconds to do a reset, then wait 20 minutes for it to rebuild everything all over again.  If I try playing the first music track before trying to move on, it will play (with sluggish response to pad presses), but will usually crash soon after if I try skipping to the next track or returning to a different menu. 

Just now, after moving up one level back to the Artist list, I swiped up and up through the alphabet - when it got to the B’s all of a sudden it jumped down to the D’s!

It gives every indication of being completely overwhelmed and unable to manage the data I’ve loaded.

As I said, after the first failure I reformatted and reloaded everything; several hours later it did exactly the same thing.  After a third time and more hours wasted (with the same results) I’m done messing with this thing.

I have between 1.4 and 6Gb free on both internal and card memory and as far as I can tell I’m not exceeding the published specs.

So, what’s up?  Has Sandisk even tested this device running at max-spec capacity with their own SDHC card?  Anybody else trying to load this much music with successful results?

Ideas?

I’m starting to think Zune, but would rather get this one running than return it.

Thanks, gang.

P.S.  Not at all crazy about the new touchpad interface; the Fuze v1/2 clickwheel is a MUCH better, faster and more-accurate control scheme.  I hope this dumb touch fad dies soon.

The Sandisk players work best with mp3 files. Have you checked to make sure your tags are okay? I agree with you, a Fuze or Clip+ is probably a better choice than the Fuze+, except for those focusing on video.

How are your files organized on the Fuze+? Are they heavily nested? Do you use long filenames and long tag names? Perhaps the database is overwhelmed?

@jk98 wrote:

The Sandisk players work best with mp3 files. Have you checked to make sure your tags are okay? I agree with you, a Fuze or Clip+ is probably a better choice than the Fuze+, except for those focusing on video.

 

How are your files organized on the Fuze+? Are they heavily nested? Do you use long filenames and long tag names? Perhaps the database is overwhelmed?

My Sansa players have never had any problem with WMA files…I think you’re making an unfair generalization there, just because of the whole battery life thing.:wink:

Your points on long file/tag names and heavy nesting, however, could very well be of some issue. It does sound like the database is overwhelmed…but it’s hard to say for sure because we haven’t used a Fuze+.

@jk98 wrote:

The Sandisk players work best with mp3 files. Have you checked to make sure your tags are okay? I agree with you, a Fuze or Clip+ is probably a better choice than the Fuze+, except for those focusing on video.

 

How are your files organized on the Fuze+? Are they heavily nested? Do you use long filenames and long tag names? Perhaps the database is overwhelmed?

JK, thanks for the reply.  When I sat down to rip over 700 (at the time) CDs for my digital collection, I did a fair amount of testing and settled on 128k WMA (non-VBR) because to my ears it was equal to 192k MP3 and saved 1/3 the file space - so all are ripped identially to that spec.

I’ve owned an e280 (8Gb+2Gb SD), Clip, Fuze v1 and Fuze v2 (both 8Gb + 16Gb SDHC) as well as a couple Creative players and have had no issues (other than capacity limitations) playing my WMAs to this point.

Is there a “tag cleaner” that can inspect my PC’s hard disk to tell me if there are tagging issues?  I’ve downloaded MP3Tag (I think that’s the name; the one most people use) but haven’t gotten very far into it - haven’t had time to figure out its operation; doesn’t seem intuitive to me.  Would love to know of an app that can simply inspect my collection and point out any files with issues.

By “heavily nested”, do you mean many levels of nested folders?  If so, no; I use a basic Music>Artist>Album>.WMAs (sometimes Music>Album>.WMAs) arrangement for everything.  As for “long” file/tag names, I use the defaults that come up when ripping with Windows Media Player v10 or v11; I only change them for clarity or to correct errors - have never explored any “long” options.

I agree with you, though; it looks like the database or the device is simply overwhelmed - that’s pretty disappointing considering my music library is within all the published limitations I can find (I researched this before I bought the Fuze+).  I’m under 40 gigs and under the 10k file limit.

If it is overwhelmed, I would have expected Sansa to have made a lot more progress in this area since my old e280; it seems barely more capable of handling large music libraries than the original Fuze or the View.

Might just have to return it for a more-modern design elsewhere, unless there’s a firmware fix possibility or something I can do to fix this myself.

Thanks again.

You may have tried this, but since it wasn’t mentioned, have you tried loading a much smaller number of files to see if the player operates properly with a smaller database? Also try it with data on the Fuze drive only; then on the sd card only. Is that a brand new sd card and/or has it been succussfully used on another device? Just trying to identify and/or eliminate something other than database overwhelm as the cause of your problem.

@robisan wrote:

You may have tried this, but since it wasn’t mentioned, have you tried loading a much smaller number of files to see if the player operates properly with a smaller database? Also try it with data on the Fuze drive only; then on the sd card only. Is that a brand new sd card and/or has it been succussfully used on another device? Just trying to identify and/or eliminate something other than database overwhelm as the cause of your problem.

 

 

Thanks for the ideas but yes, I’ve already tried those, just didn’t mention that in my original (already lengthy) posting.  After the first failure, I reformatted both internal memory and the SD card, then loaded a few hundred tracks (a few genres) to each - it seemed to work fine.

It’s a new 32Gb SD card (they finally hit my pain threshold of $100, which is what kicked off this whole quest), but I did try it out in my Fuze v1 (8Gb) while waiting for the Fuze+.  Aside from the 4,000-track limitation of the original Fuze it seemed to work fine in that player and showed a total storage capacity of ~40Gb.

Like you, I suspected it might be a defective player or SD card, but both seem to work.  I did not, however, fully load up the 16Gb internal memory of the Fuze+ all by itself; just got tired of putting in so many hours trying things and I need a lot more storage than that.  It worked fine with 5 or 6 Gb of music loaded, though, so I suspect it’s ok.

It’s starting to seem like meeting the published requirements of < 10k songs and < 40Gb data isn’t enough - there’s some other hidden limitation I think.

I know there are people running around with 120Gb hard-disk players, so I can’t be the only one who’d like to carry around a measly 40Gb of just plain old WMA music.

If I had my druthers, I’d really like to buy a regular Fuze, with the smaller size and click-wheel interface, in 64Gb capacity.  For me, it’s the perfect size, it’s solid and well made, and it handles music very well - that’s what I want.  I really don’t want to have to settle for touchpad interface (I’m hating the one on the Fuze+ the more I use it, compared to the clickwheel of the Fuze) or a gigantic turd the size of a Zune or iCult thingie (even the Fuze+ is bigger than I’d like) - because I have zero, as in ZERO, interest in videos, photos, FM radio or all that other crap that seems to be bulking up new players.

Just gimme a Fuze with 40Gb or more than can properly, quickly and efficiently handle 10k songs.  The Fuze+ is promoted as that device, but so far it’s been a timesink more than a music player.  Yeah, I’m whiny, but I’ve got over 15 hours of fiddling with it so far trying to get it to work to its specifications and it’s just a collapsing brick so far.

Grrrrr.

@ptjim wrote:

 

If I had my druthers, I’d really like to buy a regular Fuze, with the smaller size and click-wheel interface, in 64Gb capacity.  For me, it’s the perfect size, it’s solid and well made, and it handles music very well - that’s what I want.  I really don’t want to have to settle for touchpad interface (I’m hating the one on the Fuze+ the more I use it, compared to the clickwheel of the Fuze) or a gigantic turd the size of a Zune or iCult thingie (even the Fuze+ is bigger than I’d like) - because I have zero, as in ZERO, interest in videos, photos, FM radio or all that other crap that seems to be bulking up new players.

 

 

Precisely. I could not agree more. In fact, the Clip size works for me too, since I don’t really need the larger screen, though either one with large capacity and good battery life would fit the bill. The only reason I’d want touchpad style is if the device has wi-fi, a browser and/or GPS capability etc. – things I don’t expect from Sansa, or necessarily want from a music player.

“Aside from the 4,000-track limitation of the original Fuze it seemed to work fine in that player and showed a total storage capacity of ~40Gb.”

There was a firmware update for the original Fuze which increased the song limit to 8,000.

@ptjim wrote:

 

If I had my druthers, I’d really like to buy a regular Fuze, with the smaller size and click-wheel interface, in 64Gb capacity. 

 

I fully, 100%, agree with this. I don’t want to have to mess around with external cards, or anything like that. Just give me a basic player like the Fuze with enough capacity to hold my library.

What is the actual storage capacity on the 32gb card?

@jk98 wrote:

 

There was a firmware update for the original Fuze which increased the song limit to 8,000.

I have the latest firmware on my Fuze v1 and with either a 16Gb or 32Gb SDHC card added it still shows a total of about 4,400 songs.  So something’s wrong.  Maybe it can’t handle a lot of WMA-formatted tracks?

Bottom line, though, I’m below the 40Gb and 10k song limits of the Fuze+, with plenty of unused flash storage left, and it doesn’t work.  Now I have three Fuze models (v1, v2 and +) and two pricey expansion cards, that still won’t hold my library.  That’s frustrating.

@mags1230 wrote:

What is the actual storage capacity on the 32gb card?

About 30Gb; I don’t have it with me so can’t give you exact number from the Info screen.  In a 16Gb Fuze+ it showed about 45Gb total space free after formatting.

@mags1230 wrote:

What is the actual storage capacity on the 32gb card?

MicroSDHC and Compact Flash may well be different…but my 32GB CF card has an actual usable 30 GB.

30gb or about that is pretty good.  Thanks guys.  Now, if only the price of the card will go down to $80 or less.

@mags1230 wrote:

30gb or about that is pretty good.  Thanks guys.  Now, if only the price of the card will go down to $80 or less.

I’m having that same internal debate…how low does the price have to go before I take the plunge? I have 3 players with card slots, and two 16GB cards…but it would be nice for one of them to have a 32GB card.:smiley:

Update: I sent my original post to Sandisk tech support via the website and got a reply today.

So far, their only suggestion is to try reinstalling the firmware, even though my player says it has the latest version when I ping the Info page.

I fired up the Sansa Updater and it replies “Update Service not Available”.

Dandy.  Just what I needed to hear.  Does anyone know of a link to download the firmware and jam it in manually?

Other than that, tech support only said to follow up with all sort of player/Windows version details if I have more questions.

Still treading water on this issue.  I’ll update if I make any progress on a fix.  Downloading/watching more Youtube videos about the Zune HD 64, though.  Grrrrr.

@ptjim wrote:

Does anyone know of a link to download the firmware and jam it in manually?

 

 

It’s always stickied at the top of the forum. Here’s the current firmware posting:

http://forums.sandisk.com/t5/Fuze/Sansa-Fuze-Firmware-01-27-02/td-p/187786

@rickw wrote:

Just give me a basic player like the Fuze with enough capacity to hold my library.

 

Why is this simple concept so difficult for makers to understand…?

@ptjim wrote:

Downloading/watching more Youtube videos about the Zune HD 64, though.  Grrrrr.

 

Think long and hard about that one. The Zune players are even more locked down than iPods. The only way to add or remove content is with the Zune software…at least with iPods there are a few apps besides iTunes that you can use.

@robisan wrote:

It’s always stickied at the top of the forum. Here’s the current firmware posting:

 

http://forums.sandisk.com/t5/Fuze/Sansa-Fuze-Firmware-01-27-02/td-p/187786

Thank you!  I don’t know how I missed the manual link.  Turns out, it’s exactly the version mine shipped with (1.27.02F), but I d/l’d and installed it anyway.  No difference; still very sluggish:

From the main menu:

Music > Artists     20 seconds

Artists > Albums   13 seconds

Albums > Songs   130 seconds

Yes, that’s right; the last one takes over two minutes to respond to a single swipe and yes, by then even the max backlight setting (90 seconds) times out and the screen goes dark before it responds.

Man, this is getting old.  Unless there’s some hidden defect somewhere in my music library, I think the Fuze+ just isn’t designed to handle the advertised capacity.

I encourage others to try this as well - round up as much music as you can find, add a big SDHC and see if your Fuze+ can handle it.