still not happy with shuffle functionality

I just installed the new firmware (.29) and I see they fixed the problem where the shuffle order wasn’t fixed, so that, previously, if you we past a song, you couldn’t go back to it; the shuffle order was recreated each time.

However, it seems they fixed it *too much.* While now there is a set shuffled playlist while playing, that you can go forwards and backwards in (which is great), THE LIST IS THE SAME EVERY TIME!!! Even turning off the device and turning it back on again doesn’t reshuffle the items!

The whole point of having a shuffled list is so that it would be random, not so that you always hear the songs in the same order! So now there’s a new problem.

Would be great if the functionality were left the way it is, but with the list reshuffling every time you made a selection (music | play all, etc.) or turned the device on and off.

I also suggest either a easy way to reshuffle the list, either a new way of handling shuffle mode, half way between the last and the new one): Remember some last played tracks and pick a random one each time.

Try adding content to the player, to force a database refresh. The shuffle list is rebuilt only when the database is rebuilt AFAICT.

Note all you really need to do is “touch” any file on the Clip, even drop a non-media file on it, to force a rebuild. This makes the Clip annoying to use as a USB thumb drive (but it sure is a great DAP). 

Seems that Sansa COULD easily add a feature to do this (“reshuffle”).  

actually I think the shuffle DB is rebuilt when any new content is played outside of the shuffle’s current built order or if you restart a music node.

For example: I have 10 songs and play all on shuffle.

If I press down, back to music list, and choose another song, it completely plays a new shuffle list.

Same with if I press down, back to music, and press left and choose play all again. it rebuilds a new shuffle list. or if I choose play all from genre, albums, artists.

The shuffle playlist doesn’t rebuild if I let it running, it’ll keep to that list, or if you turn off and on, it’ll just remember that list, but when you start a new playback, it’ll rebuild. 

Cool! Thanks for the correction, I use a lot of playlists and every time I upload one it does the refresh database so I hadn’t noticed the reshuffle on mode reselect. Good catch…

Thoma is correct,  we preserved the list over power cycles if the list is not altered.  THis way users can “Play ALL”  in shuffle mode,  and continue without ever hearing repeats!

If you want a new shuffle, all you need to do is select a different list.

All in all,  I think this is the way to make the most users happy.

SansaFix 

Sansafix:

I understand your logic, and how preserving the list prevents repeats between power cycles. But, honestly, I don’t think most users will care about repeats between power cycles. Usually those would be few with a new shuffled list, anyway. I’ve used other players, as well as WMP, which reshuffles each time, and, sure, sometimes a song comes up again which you heard recently; but it’s not a big deal.

What is a big deal, though, is always hearing the songs in the same order. That becomes annoying.

Granted, I understand that you can select a different list and get a new shuffle order. But that’s something I don’t usually do. I usually just play my Clip with it set to Play All, and I like to be able to just turn it on and use it. The times that I would remember to reshuffle the list would be after I’ve heard the songs in the same order for so long that it becomes noticable (and annoying). If the list is reshuffled each time it’s powered on, that would never happen.

So perhaps the solution would be to have a user option as to whether or not to preserve the list when powered off?

Anyway, just my 2c.

Neil

You know it’s interesting, because users complained the exact opposite of what you are inquiring in that they never wanted to hear the same song again. And before the shuffle used to be completely dynamic and always changing where it was possible you’d hear a repeat in music (not that often, but still happens).

I could of sworn the shuffle DB is rebuilt after the whole list is played through. I’m not bsing, I’ve tested it before.

With 5 songs I set shuffle on and repeat all on. the first order was this

5,3,4,1,2 after that it went to 4,3,1,2,5.

Further testing made for interesting sets: 5,3,2,3,1 2,5,1,2,3 4,2,4,3,2

I’m not sure if the amount of songs I’m testing with is too small, or if at some later point the device can’t figure out when the list started and ended, but anyways.

Are you sure your tracks are repeating in exactly the same order? I mean, yes, it is the same order, when you turned it off and on (since the shuffle list is preserved on reset). and if you were skipping back to the beginning of the list, than yes the list would be exactly the same, but at that point, if you’re already fiddling with your device to do that you might as well navigate with back to music, select a song, and force the shuffle list to rebuild.

Message Edited by thoma on 06-18-2008 03:52 PM

thoma:

Thanks for your input!

“You know it’s interesting, because users complained the exact opposite of what you are inquiring in that they never wanted to hear the same song again.”

Hmm, seems that this process is very political. Perhaps if I had done more complaining earlier on… :smiley:

“And before the shuffle used to be completely dynamic and always changing where it was possible you’d hear a repeat in music (not that often, but still happens).”

Yes, that was my big complaint – not that there was a repeat in music, but that it was completely dynamic, so that you couldn’t move forwards and backwards through the list without losing the list. The way it is now is MUCH, MUCH better, and my complaint here is MINOR compared to that other issue. I’d much rather have it this way than that way.

“I could of sworn the shuffle DB is rebuilt after the whole list is played through. I’m not bsing, I’ve tested it before.”

I did not realize that, nor have I tested it. But if that’s the case, that the list is automatically reshuffled with each loop, then that would certainly address my concerns. 

“Are you sure your tracks are repeating in exactly the same order?”

As per above, I hadn’t tested it, just assumed the shuffled order would be the same after the list completes, since it’s preserved between power cycles.

Glad to help.

Hope the clip will satisfy the hunger within you! or at least tame it till the main course. 

“Hope the clip will satisfy the hunger within you! or at least tame it till the main course.”

Wow, that’s a very ambitious goal! :smiley: I will say, though, that if the Clip could deliver a hamburger while I’m listening to my music, that would be fantastic! Perhaps an upgrade for the next firmware release? One can only hope…

Also if you go to music options and toggle shuffle off then back on the list will reshuffle :slight_smile:

sansafix: that was discussed here and I noted that that was not something I wanted to have to do. see post 7 in this thread.

@ngins: if all you really do is “Play All” and you don’t need the new features in the latest firmware, then you could always just revert back to the previous version.  Sounds like the last FW works exactly the way you want.

Skinjob:

As I noted in post 9 of this thread, my main problem with the previous version of the firmware was that you couldn’t go forwards and backwards through a shuffled list. The list was shuffled each time a song ended, and you’d lose a song once it was done.

Thus, this current version of the firmware is much, much better than the previous versions for me, since I like to maintain the shuffled playlist while I’m listening to it, and like to be able to go back to a song once it’s done. So this is a big improvement.

As for other features of this new firmware release, yeah, I’m not even really familiar with what they are. But that one improvement in the current release makes a big difference to me.