Long shot, but maybe a particular set of saved settings trigger this leakage problem ?
Definitely a possibility. Skijump (or anyone else), we could post our settings for comparison. My Clip doesn’t have the discharge issue.
OK, here’s mine. I’m posting everything even if it seems like some of it may not affect power usage.
(Sansa 2GB … from what I’ve read, the memory size doesn’t make a difference … firmware V01.01.18A)
Equalizer: Rock
Power: Auto Power: 30 seconds
Power: Sleep: Off
Display: Backlight: 15 seconds
Display: Brightness: 10 steps over from left
Language: English
FM Settings: FM Region: USA
FM Settings: FM Mode: Stereo
Volume: High
USB Mode: MTP
Press and Hold: Add Song to GoList
Message Edited by PromisedPlanet on 01-09-2008 05:08 PM
I exchanged my 1GB clip at Radio Shack (Because my other one would discharge with the power off in about 57 hours).
I have only done one charge on my new one, but that charge held overnight 98% to 98% the following morning. (vs. 100% to 66% overnight for the one that I returned)
I agree that comparing settings is a longshot, but here are my settings for my new unit. I have not changed much… just the settings that will help with battery life when i start using it.
Equalizer: Factory
Power: Auto Power: Factory
Power: Sleep: Off
Display: Backlight: 5 seconds
Display: Brightness: All the way down
Language: English
FM Settings: FM Region: Factory
FM Settings: FM Mode: Factory
Volume: I don’t know… I tried both settings on my old unit and have not changed the setting on the new unit.
USB Mode: Factory
Press and Hold: Factory
I think what we need is to have someone post their settings from a Clip that’s showing the battery discharge problem. Then what I’d do is change my Clip’s settings to be the same, charge it up, shut it down and stick it in a drawer for a few days or a week, and see if mine drains too.
Message Edited by PromisedPlanet on 01-10-2008 01:57 PM
My blue 2GB sansa clip had a battery discharge problem from day one. I just mailed it back today. Settings?..Oh… I never changed any, it still had the factory defaults. I believe you are chasing a red herring if you think the settings are the problem with the discharge issue. It’s either a battery issue or a circuit board issue. Either way send it in or take it back and get a new one or refund. I hate it when companies rush defective products out just before Christmas.
I think perhaps some of us with working units just can’t believe a problem as widespread as this battery issue could get to market without somebody noticing. The quality control where these units are made must be nil. Heck I suppose if the Chinese can poison our kids with lead based paint on toys without anyone noticing anything is possible.
I for one am ready to throw in the towel on this one. Let’s face it …the working Clips are marvelous but there is too high percentage of ■■■■ ones out there. I will think twice about buying anything else from Sandisk in the future. Come on Sandisk step up to the plate and admit you screwed up and make it right with your customers!!!.
hy_tek wrote:
I think perhaps some of us with working units just can’t believe a problem as widespread as this battery issue could get to market without somebody noticing. The quality control where these units are made must be nil. Heck I suppose if the Chinese can poison our kids with lead based paint on toys without anyone noticing anything is possible.
I for one am ready to throw in the towel on this one. Let’s face it …the working Clips are marvelous but there is too high percentage of ■■■■ ones out there. I will think twice about buying anything else from SanDisk in the future. Come on SanDisk step up to the plate and admit you screwed up and make it right with your customers!!!.
You’re jumping to some pretty wild conclusions. Thousands of Clips were likely sold over the holidays and a small handful of people are reporting problems on this board and on the ABI forum. That hardly makes for “too high a percentage of ■■■■ ones out there.” Nobody has complained that SanDisk refused to replace a defective Clip, so I don’t know what more they could do to make it right with their customers. The portable MP3 player market is fiercely competitive and these companies are under tremendous pressure to be first to market with the latest innovation. Even though I got stuck with a bad one myself, I think I got a hell of a deal for $45 and I know
I’ll eventually get a replacement from BB or SanDisk.
hy_tek wrote:
I think perhaps some of us with working units just can’t believe a problem as widespread as this battery issue could get to market without somebody noticing.
Who said nobody noticed? The thing is, the defect seems to mostly cause batteries to drain when they’re not being used. Most people who have a defective Clip probably just recharge it.
So some of you think that that people who are having problems are just an isolated incidence? People have contacted Sandisk about this issue including myself and according to them there is no issue. I think that would fall under the category of “nobody noticed” or “nobody is admitting”.
As far as my exaggerating the severity of the problem the answer to that would be…perhaps. But the facts seem to support my beliefs.
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The fact you must do a firmware upgrade to even get the player to work reliably or recognize your computer is bad marketing. Many people who buy this unit are less than tech savvy and would not even have a clue that a firmware upgrade is needed nor how to do it. This suggests the unit was released too soon prior to a stable firmware build for Christmas sales.
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Some individuals have replaced their Clips more than once only to receive another unit with the same problems These people do not live in a single geopraphic area. This suggests a problem on a much larger scale. It suggests “nobody noticed” or admitted at Sandisk that there was a problem.
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Some of the units such as mine are functional but performance is not up to what is claimed in the specs. People with units that are marginally operational would not even know there was a problem unless they came to a site such as this.
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As far as I know the stores are accepting returns of the unit because they have to, not because Sandisk has accepted the fact there is an issue. It is much cheaper to accept a few returns than to make a recall of a device with known issues. Sandisk is cutting it’s losses here instead of doing the right thing.
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Finally the issue of MTP vs MSC mode seems to be causing a lot of problems for users. It can be very confusing to people who just want an MP3 player to play music. Something this small and simple should be a little more user friendly to the non tekkies of the world.
As I said numeous times this is only my opinion as your thoughts are only your opinions. I do however think it’s a bit naive to think these problems are isolated incidents. We could trade comments here “ad finitum” without coming to a conclusion. Only time will tell who is correct.
Thanks for your comments.
So some of you think that that people who are having problems are just an isolated incidence?
I think exactly the opposite. I think there are probably a large percentage of Clips out there with this defect. My point was that I think most people either don’t notice it, or just tolerate it, because it is primarily an issue of the battery draining while the Clip is not in use.
People have contacted Sandisk about this issue including myself and according to them there is no issue.
What I was told by a Sandisk employee is that Sandisk has no data on how long the charge is supposed to last when the Clip is shut off.
If they are aware of the issue, but are choosing not to say anything, that’s not surprising.
I think that would fall under the category of “nobody noticed” or “nobody is admitting”.
Maybe “nobody is admitting,” but not “nobody noticed.”
I bought 2 - Sansa Clips (2GB) at Best Buy a few days before Christmas. A pink one for my wife and a blue one for myself. I thought they would be perfect to use at the gym. Best Buy had them on sale for $45.00 each. Can’t beat the bang for the buck.
I started to notice about a week later that my Blue Clip was losing charge like everybody has been posting. About 1/3 drain per day until 3 days later the Clip Battery was totally dead. My wife’s Pink Clip didn’t seem to drain the battery. I thought there must be a setting option that was not set on my Blue Clip or maybe I didn’t power it down after working out. I compared every and all settings between the Pink and Blue Clip. All were identical.
I had done the Firmware update the same day I had bought the clips. So I knew I had the latest and greatest Firmware installed. I paid more attention and made sure that I powered the Blue Clip down until it said “Goodbye” every time. But the Clip still was losing about 1/3 battery power per day until dead. My wife’s Pink Clip still worked great with no battery discharge problem.
I thought I was going crazy until I read about a week ago on this message board about others having the same problem. So I went to Best Buy and exchanged my Blue Clip for a Black Clip (The only color they had left in stock) and took it home. I updated the firmware and charged it like before. Loaded up my MP3’s and guess what. After 6 days of testing this new Black Clip does not have the Self-Discharge Problem. It still shows a full charge after charging and using it 6 days ago and then leaving it on the shelf. I only would turn it on at the end of the day to check the battery and then turn it back off.
Originally I guess I was half lucky and got one Good Pink Clip and one Bad Blue Clip with the Battery Self-Discharge Problem. I don’t know if it is a bad charging circuit or battery on the ones that have the problem. But if you have the problem go back to the store where you bought it and have it replaced or contact Sandisk for replacement. Hopefully your new one will be a good one without the problem of a dead battery after 3 days. I now know I was not going crazy after all. Sandisk has some bad Sansa Clips out there.
By the way, I love these Sansa Clips (The ones without self-discharge problem). Excellent sound and great for the Gym with a built in Clip (hence the name) plus a Radio and Recorder. Forget buying an over priced Apple iPod with no radio and then you have to purchase a case since they don’t have a built in clip. Can’t beat this little Sansa Clip (2GB) MP3 player for the price.
I wonder when Sandisk is going to admit they have a problem. I also believe there are a lot more people that bought these Sansa Clips and are having the self-discharge problem but just recharge them and don’t realize anything is wrong with their Sansa Clips. Good Luck on getting a good replacement.
January 30th update – After 3 weeks with my New Black Replacement Clip and 6 weeks with my Wife’s Original Pink Clip… I have had no problems with Battery discharge and getting around 13 hours of play time. Note: I also updated the firmware to version 01.01.20A
I also just read that the 4GB Clip is coming out in Mid February in a cool looking Silver Case.
Nice :smileyvery-happy:
Message Edited by EricinLA on 01-30-2008 10:05 AM
EricinLA wrote:
I thought there must be a setting option that was not set on my Blue Clip or maybe I didn’t power it down after working out.
You didn’t happen to compare the settings on the two clips (Blue and Pink), did you?
PromisedPlanet Wrote:
“You didn’t happen to compare the settings on the two clips (Blue and Pink), did you?”
Yes, the Pink and Blue settings were identical and both had the latest firmware. But only the Blue Clip had the self-discharge problem.
Message Edited by EricinLA on 01-11-2008 12:25 PM
Message Edited by EricinLA on 01-11-2008 12:26 PM
Self-discharge in Lithium Polymer batteries should be extremely low. Operative word being “should”.
This issue is most likely a consequense of improper precharge and/or storage of the Lithium-Polymer (LiPo) battery in the Clip, prior to manufacturing. Fully charging a LiPo prior to long-term storage is actually WORSE than a partial charge on the pack.
Another cause could be the battery’s own internal charge monitoring circuit, due to the fire hazard concerns with LiPo’s (if incorrectly charged), a small circuit is integrated into the battery pack. Note that not ALL LiPo batteries HAVE this circuit, I’ve worked with both types. The point is that this wee little circuit contributes to the self-discharge problem as it drains some microamperes ALL the time.
Draining a LiPo too far kills it, dead as a stone, either chemically in the case of a bare battery (and this is totally irreversable) or electronically in a smart battery - the battery voltage drops to where the protection circuit loses it’s mind - and recharging becomes impossible under normal conditions (in order to recover it, the battery must be removed from the device and force-charged for a VERY short time, to “reset” the protection circuit).
It should be apparent that there are mutually exclusive properties at work here; i.e. partially charging a “smart” battery before shipment results in reduced storage (shelf) lifetime before the battery is kaput, and fully charging it may lead to reduced capacity and overall lifetime IF it sits on a shelf for a long time.
It is possible that some Clips have “smart” batteries, and some don’t, as well. Only Sansa knows for sure (but dissection will tell). My Clip is fine, and I don’t turn it off EVER (after pausing a song, I let it go to sleep by itself), and I enjoy excellent battery charge retention - but if this issue should occur, I’m opening it up and seeing for myself if the LiPo is smart, or not.
Bottom line is, it is highly unlikely that this is in any way related to firmware, and highly likely that it is purely a battery issue.
For those who wish to know more details, here’s a decent resource that explains these issues:
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Islta wrote:
I bought a pink one and a blue one for each of my kids before Christmas. A couple weeks before Christmas, I charged them up and loaded their music on them but I didn’t get around to wrapping them. About 4 or 5 days later I go to wrap them but I checked them one last time. The pink one had a full charge but the blue one only had a fraction of a battery charge left. I recharged it but didn’t have time to check it before Christmas so I just wrapped it up. After about six or seven full charges the blue player still won’t hold a charge for more than 4 or 5 days with no play.
_______________________________________________________________
Funny, I had the same result with my 2 Clips I bought before Christmas.
The Pink one worked fine but I had to replace my Blue one that was not holding the charge. It would die after 3 days of sitting on the shelf. I replaced it with a Black Clip that works fine.
Thanx for the explanation, Click. I don’t have this problem, but it surely could explain why some people are experiencing this. I have a question, though… why would some batteries have the circuit & some don’t? Why would some be “smart” & some not? Shouldn’t they ALL be the same? That seems rather odd to me… But I’m by no means anywhere near an expert in this area… Maybe it’s just SanDisk’s quality control, as some here have mentioned?
I agree, they should all be the same, but I found otherwise in another, mass produced, extremely popular electronic device LAST Xmas, which used a LiPo of comparable size, that SOME of them (I bought a few for myself, to play with and modify) had smart batteries and SOME of them had barebones LiPo cells.
To the device’s battery charge circuit, the LiPo cell (it’s not technically a “battery”, being a single cell) appears the same whether it is “smart” (“internally protected” is a better description), or not.
This was an AirHogs R/C plane, and I submit that anyone who have owned these will agree - that product was plagued with LiPo degradation problems (“fortunately”, the motors burned out before the LiPo died off, unless you replaced the motors…). But I digress
Consider that if Production needs to deliver Mass Amounts of Devices In Time for The Holidays, and runs out of Part A, and can also use Part B, and save a few micropennies, and it cannot be discovered by ANY method of testing (OK, X-Ray maybe) after the outer shell is closed up, well, it certainly happens. Same for using up old stock, or badly stored / aged / low quality components (which the Buyer may not even be aware of OR able to effectively test), or any number of things which could contribute to this apparent quality issue
I highly doubt that Sansa is knowingly avoiding the issue, but then again, I truly do believe that Man did land on the Moon…
Disclaimer: I’m certainly not an engineer.
In my case(s), the batteries seemed fine since they would operate the player continuously for ~15 hours.
On the other hand, they would completely discharge in 3 days even with the player turned off suggesting (at least to me) that some part of the circuitry was continually pulling current when it should have been off.
Message Edited by dusky on 01-11-2008 06:42 PM
I purchased two Sansa Clip 2GB through mail order (not Best Buy nor Circuit City nor Amazon). I charged them both up to 100% at the same time. One then got some use (maybe 1 hour worth) and then shelved. The other was never used and was shelved for the time being. The one that had some use showed more than 80% charge after 4 days. The one that was never used shows just a little over half a charge left after 4 days. That the one performs so much worse than the other sounds like a defect to me.
If the faster self-discharge is “normal” and the slower self-discharge is an “added feature,” then I want the added feature. After all (1) they’re priced the same and (2) I wouldn’t buy the the one that self-discharges that quickly.
Message Edited by Fluffy on 01-11-2008 09:52 PM
I had a clip with the same problem. I bought two clips (one red, one black) at Best Buy for $35 each during their after-Thanksgiving sale. The red one seems to keep its charge for a very long time and I’ve only had to re-charge it once since Christmas. The black one seemed to lose battery power over a few days, even when it wasn’t being used.
I took the black one back to Best Buy today and exchanged it. I’m charging the new one right now. I’ll test it and post the results.
It’s too bad that some of the clips are bad. I really like the style and the interface of the device.