Can someone pls post the sample rate of an MP3 which plays back @ proper speed on your Fuze?

I’m just trying to determine if file sample rate is the cause of the “slow playback” problem that some people have with the Fuze.

To do this in Windows XP: right click on the mp3, select Properties -> Summary -> Advanced, then scroll down to the entry for “Audio Sample Rate.”   

Thanks! 

Message Edited by maxplanck on 02-14-2009 09:58 PM

Message Edited by maxplanck on 02-14-2009 09:58 PM

I have VBR files and CBR mp3s. CBR’s that play fine for me are 128, 192 kbps.

The bit rate of VBR’s vary quite a bit during the recording, but just to give you sample, Windows and several program list the following bit rates on a number of my mp3s: 128, 160 192, 224, 256, and 320.

(Edit: Using Windows Vista 64-bit, the “sample rate” is not available in the properties of any of my mp3 files)

Message Edited by apocalypse on 02-15-2009 03:25 PM

Thanks, but I’m looking for Sample Rate, not Bit Rate.  

To find a file’s Sample Rate, in Windows XP: right click on the mp3, select Properties -> Summary -> Advanced, then scroll down to the entry for “Audio Sample Rate.”    

Most all of my mp3’s are sampled at 44.1k  off of cd’s.    I have a few sampled at 48k from dvd’s and on audiobooks where sampled at 22k

Most all of my mp3’s are sampled at 44.1k off of cd’s. I have a few sampled at 48k from dvd’s and on audiobooks some where sampled at 22k

Niko, do all of your MP3’s play back correctly on your Fuze, i.e. without the “slightly slow playback/lower pitch” problem?

I can’t check on my Fuze for you.   It’s been kidnapped.   I gave it to someone ><    I did just test them on the CLIP and they play back fine.  (as a music mp3 file).    all three sample rates i mentioned.

My clip plays 44.1 files of various formats (flac, mp3, ogg/vorbis) about 0.7% high in pitch.  I haven’t tested any other sample rate. 

@donp wrote:

My clip plays 44.1 files of various formats (flac, mp3, ogg/vorbis) about 0.7% high in pitch.  I haven’t tested any other sample rate. 

Please explain how you estimated .7%    Could that be a perceived difference between speakers or headphones?

@niko_sama wrote:


@donp wrote:

My clip plays 44.1 files of various formats (flac, mp3, ogg/vorbis) about 0.7% high in pitch.  I haven’t tested any other sample rate. 


 

Please explain how you estimated .7%    Could that be a perceived difference between speakers or headphones?

 

I detailed this in the other thread.  I made a .wav file with just a 1000 Hz sine wave, then converted to flac, ogg/vorbis, mp3, and CD.  IF you are used to tuning instruments to each other, or have studied radio engineering, you know that when 2 sources are out of tune with each other they produce a beat frequency equal to the difference, and you retune one instrument until there is no beat.  I did the same thing with a bunch of players.

 The CD player, DVD player, and computer were all very close, like 2 beats per minute out of the 1000/second signal, no difference whether the computer was playing the original wave file or any of the compressed formats.  Error roughly 1 part in 30,000 or  0.0033%

My portable players, Sansa e270 and Neuros, were both about 1/3 of a Hz off, 3 seconds per beat. Error roughly 1 part in 3000 or  0.033%

 The Clip was 7 Hz off.  I checked that by playing a 1007 Hz tone on the computer that was in tune with the “1000 Hz” tone on the Clip, which also tells me the Clip is playing high/fast.  7/1000 is 0.7%

 

 

 

@donp wrote:


@niko_sama wrote:


@donp wrote:

My clip plays 44.1 files of various formats (flac, mp3, ogg/vorbis) about 0.7% high in pitch.  I haven’t tested any other sample rate. 


 

Please explain how you estimated .7%    Could that be a perceived difference between speakers or headphones?


 

I detailed this in the other thread.  I made a .wav file with just a 1000 Hz sine wave, then converted to flac, ogg/vorbis, mp3, and CD.  IF you are used to tuning instruments to each other, or have studied radio engineering, you know that when 2 sources are out of tune with each other they produce a beat frequency equal to the difference, and you retune one instrument until there is no beat.  I did the same thing with a bunch of players.

 The CD player, DVD player, and computer were all very close, like 2 beats per minute out of the 1000/second signal, no difference whether the computer was playing the original wave file or any of the compressed formats.  Error roughly 1 part in 30,000 or  0.0033%

My portable players, Sansa e270 and Neuros, were both about 1/3 of a Hz off, 3 seconds per beat. Error roughly 1 part in 3000 or  0.033%

 The Clip was 7 Hz off.  I checked that by playing a 1007 Hz tone on the computer that was in tune with the “1000 Hz” tone on the Clip, which also tells me the Clip is playing high/fast.  7/1000 is 0.7%

 

Awesome work,   I was just reading the other thread with interest

DonP your quantitative analysis is the best, thanks for putting in the work to help us all understand this problem better.

Much better than ppl simply saying “it’s not that bad, live with it” =P

With your quantitative analysis, now we know for sure that this issue is fully ridiculous, and inexcusable on Sandisk’s part, assuming that every Fuze performs similarly in this respect.

Not every one does. It is starting too look at least to me like the issue is hardware related, and since very few have reported this issue it leads me to believe that there may have been a bad batch. Max what version is your fuze? (The first number in the firmware is either 01 or 02)

@maxplanck wrote:

DonP your quantitative analysis is the best, thanks for putting in the work to help us all understand this problem better.

 

Much better than ppl simply saying “it’s not that bad, live with it” =P

 

With your quantitative analysis, now we know for sure that this issue is fully ridiculous, and inexcusable on Sandisk’s part, assuming that every Fuze performs similarly in this respect.

1)  It isn’t that bad, and all his analysis proves is that he as WAY too much free time, and has no clue how to do research.  His sample of players is like trying to decide a national election with 1% of the results of one state.  Anyone that makes this big a deal about so insignificant a difference is totally missing the enjoyment of the music itself.  I really feel sorry for him that he can’t just listen.  Adrian Monk would be proud.  I suppose now he’ll begin his “analysis” with other brands of players, and posting his “results” on their forums as well.  Maybe he call the radio stations and demand they calibrate their equipment as well.  Then he can attend every live concert to verify that each performance is tuned to his very own 1000Hz tone.

2)  So now that you “know”, what are you going to do about it?  Answer:  Nothing.  Unless you count the incessant whining.

 DonP found a way to conclusively prove the issue exists and to what degree on his Fuze…props to him for that. However, not everyone has the knowledge,inclination and/or equipment to do what he did. 

 I’m inclined to agree with Conversion Box that it doesn’t seem to be ALL Fuzes, but that a certain batch of them has the problem. All I can say is that if the problem exists on my device, I can’t detect it . And can it really be that bad?Aren’t there better things to worry about, like, will we still have our jobs tomorrow?

LOL.   I just love these discussions :P   let the geeks have some fun.   :)   Those that don’t care about the pitch/tone/timing error don’t have to read :P    LOL

The test is extremely easy for anyone to perform. Download this MP3 file: 

http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/tone/files/1kHz_44100Hz_16bit_05sec.mp3

Copy the file to your Fuze. Play the file on your Fuze, and record the audio output from the Fuze to your computer. Upload that recording somewhere, and post a link to it here. I will do the rest.

jkj, DonP’s quantitative analysis has provided us with one data point for one unit. Of course we need more data points in order to determine if other units perform similarly. If we really wanted to do this properly, we would take multiple data points from each unit under different operating conditions (i.e. different temperatures, levels of battery charge, etc.)

For you to criticize the fact that he employed a measurement technique and obtained a data point, on the basis that he hasn’t collected data points from other units, makes no sense. Of course he can only measure his own unit, that’s the only one he has access to. He’s posting his results here in hope that others will perform the test, and post their results to compare.

His comparison of his Fuze unit to his other players indicates that his Fuze is off pitch on a whole greater order of magnitude, compared to his other players (at least under his testing conditions, which I assume to be standard conditions under which the Fuze would ordinarily be used.) So in his case, the problem IS quite bad. 0.7% pitch deviation is significant for musicians’ applications, as many have noted in these forums. 

Now that I know, I may refrain from purchasing the Fuze. I don’t own one yet. I will reserve judgement until we can determine how widespread this problem is, and its average magnitude.

Message Edited by maxplanck on 02-15-2009 08:48 PM

Message Edited by maxplanck on 02-15-2009 08:48 PM

Max listen very Carefully. So far no V1 Fuzes have this issue. So we know its constrained to V2. Now since not every person with a V2 fuze has complained or returned it you can safely assume not every V2 fuze has this problem. This means that there is a batch of V2 fuzes out there where the hardware is defective or calibrated wrong. We can safely assume all of this based purely on the two threads about this issue. What we need to do at this point is find out how to check whether or not the manufacturing batch is the same on the players where this issue occours.

Since many users may not ever notice the problem if it occurs w/ their Fuze, I’m not 100% convinced that the problem is limited to a small batch.  I prefer to judge by quantitative analysis, not by people’s ears.  Can you run that file through your Fuze and post it?  If the pitch deviation is << 0.7% I will be more convinced.

Nope. I already ran my fuze. I work in the music industry with the most perfect instruments on the market. When this first happened I tested a wave length that is used to calabrate FM Radio, and Shure IEMS (its the same) by playing it htru my fuze into a dummy head and It was spot on. I would check it again but my fuze is full of music I have to listen to tonight, I cant take anything off.

Edit: I just thought of this if thedifference is 1 or 2 cents off, and as you say most people wont hear it, is it a probelm at all. Not IMO its just an inconveniance.

Message Edited by Conversionbox on 02-16-2009 12:20 AM