very dissapointing

Disposal? I want to use my product for much longer, not have to think about how it is disposed. Reuse is much better than recycling. Products should be designed around a standard easily user replaceable battery, and not have wierd shaped propriety batteries designed to fit wherever there is a bit of extra space in the product. It is simple enough to design a product around a standard battery rather than designing the battery around the product.

Not all product designs are that bad.  I have a Braun / Oral-B electric toothbrush, several years old, that has a very cool design touch that very few probably know about.

When the brush is docked in its charging base, there’s a keyway built into the base.  If the brush is rotated, the key loosens the base of the brush unit!  The internal batteries can be removed, or if one is so inclined, the internal mechanism can be serviced.  This device is a cheap $15 to $20 device, mind you.

I agree with drlucky , the problem is that most consumer products end up being tossed in the dust bin.  Legislation on the manufacturer side will accomplish one guaranteed thing: compliance means that the product price goes up, government pockets the fee…and yes!  The consumer tosses it into the dust bin anyway.  I’ll bet on that result any day!

Solving this problem involves educating the average consumer about what he can do to help solve the problem, and there needs to be a convenient means of disposal.  I see handy electronics recycling bins at office supply stores, and even the local Target.  If it’s convenient and visible, many folks will do their part.

Bob  :smileyvery-happy:

@neutron_bob wrote:

 

I agree with drlucky , the problem is that most consumer products end up being tossed in the dust bin.  Legislation on the manufacturer side will accomplish one guaranteed thing: compliance means that the product price goes up, government pockets the fee…and yes!  The consumer tosses it into the dust bin anyway.  I’ll bet on that result any day!

 

I know  . . . Maybe JK98 will post his address here, and we can all send him our discarded/broken mp3 players instead of throwing them away. :stuck_out_tongue:

@jk98 wrote:

Disposal? I want to use my product for much longer, not have to think about how it is disposed. Reuse is much better than recycling. Products should be designed around a standard easily user replaceable battery, and not have wierd shaped propriety batteries designed to fit wherever there is a bit of extra space in the product. It is simple enough to design a product around a standard battery rather than designing the battery around the product.

But I’m afraid that you’re ignoring many of the reasons why manfs. may be using their own batteries, as I posted earlier. 

@neutron_bob wrote:

 

I agree with drlucky , the problem is that most consumer products end up being tossed in the dust bin.  Legislation on the manufacturer side will accomplish one guaranteed thing: compliance means that the product price goes up, government pockets the fee…and yes!  The consumer tosses it into the dust bin anyway.  I’ll bet on that result any day!

 

Solving this problem involves educating the average consumer about what he can do to help solve the problem, and there needs to be a convenient means of disposal.  I see handy electronics recycling bins at office supply stores, and even the local Target.  If it’s convenient and visible, many folks will do their part.

 

Bob  :smileyvery-happy:

I agree with the latter point but not the former:  manfs. have to be brought into the process, either voluntarily or by legislation.  One of the causes of the disposable electronics is a nonreplaceable dead battery.  Having user-replaceable batteries avoids this.  Right now, the manfs. of the disposable products are riding on the public availability of dumps.  That’s not a good environmental solution, in the end–conservation from the beginning is.  And if that means that my Clip will cost 25 cents more, that’s a good investment, in the long term.  And as manfs. have seen, widely advertising green products and getting consumer reaction and purchases that way.

I don’t know, legislation has done so much to virtually cripple electronics manufacturing in the United States.  Rather than “feel good” laws, they must enlist the assistance of the engineering community.  We’re replete with laws that make it all to simple to outsource manufacturing., avoiding the requisite costs of compliance  The cost analysis of manufacturing domestically, versus moving manufacturing abroad, is a simple choice in the boardroom.

Bob  :cry:

Legislation is what is needed sometimes. I applaud the legislation requiring the phase out of incandescent light bulbs. Now that there are nimh batteries that are very low discharge, I wonder if there will be a push for legislation to phase out alkaline batteries.

No way man, I keep mine.  I still have the first Cassette player/recorder I owned back in the college days.  An Aiwa with an aluminum case thatI could record off the radio.  I have most of my CD players, 2 or 3; and I have kept 6 MP3 players.  Three are Sansa products. One a creative with a 20Gb HDD another another an Intel pocket concert (with 128 mB, Woopee!) and another one with expandable memory.  

The thing about the batteries that is being made a big deal here is that the small new technology batteries are much better and much smaller than AAA or AA batteries.  I agree if you want a device with replaceable batteries you should have that device.  But it will not be up to date current technology.  I have a friend who is perfectly happy with his 1 gB player that uses one AA battery.

He listens to heavy metal so I doubt if he is concerned with audio quality.  (That’s a very small joke.)

"The thing about the batteries that is being made a big deal here is that the small new technology batteries are much better and much smaller than AAA or AA batteries. "

Lithium batteries are not better than nimh batteries when it comes to charging time. Most lithium batteries take around 3 hours to charge, While nimh batteries can be charged in as little as 15 minutes. As for energy density, the best nimh batteries have around 2/3 of the energy density of lion batteries. Nimh batteries are also much less expensive per watt hour than most lion batteries(the 18650 lion battery is the exception to this). The 18650 is also a standard size, while most lion batteries used in consumer electronics are not a standard size. When lion batteries are cheap, easily available in standard sizes, and can be safely charged in 15 minutes I will be impressed. Until then, I won’t consider lithium batteries as being superior to nimh batteries for use in consumer electronics.

I’d opt for 2 or 3 AA batteries being included in the device itself as long as USB power could recharge them.  There’s no simple solution when engineering.  I can really see the advantages of a small proprietary battery in a device like this, although it certainly makes sense to be able to replace it as we could with the e200 series or vittually any cell phone.  To seal the battery and force the user to throw the entire device away is arrogant and irresponsible.

I just bought a new camera and one of the most important criteria for me was that the unit use AA batteries.  I am really tired of running out of juice with a camera and not having a spare proprietary battery charged and ready to go.  Especially with a camera, where the electrical load is pretty significant, the added power and easy availablity of standard cells make compete sense.  When you incorporate the batteries into the handgrip, you turn a potential disadvantage in form-factor into an advantage.

I hate built in batteries, not just in mp3 players. I have 2 shavers that still work well except that the built in battery is worn out! UGH!!!

I know it’s an old thread, but couldn’t help to comment on it.

I completely agree to JK98 on this resources-conserving matter.

Just to let you know that when my Panasonic shaver “not swappable” battery got depleted, I unscrewed it, found the battery inside, bought a new one on an electronics store, and found a technician to do the welding / exchange.

Paid some USD 8 on the battery and USD 3 on the exchanging.

Now it works better than original.

Regards to all !

If only all batteries in devices which are “non user replaceable battery inside” are of those type easily found in electronic equipment stores. That would be great, to buy new battery and replace in device. Unfortunately, many devices have batteries made just for that device and not to be shipped to electronic stores. Is battery in fuze+ of type which can be found freely sold in electronic stores around the world?