How about this....16gb vs 32gb...

MP3 players Sansa Fuze
1

Can anyone tell me, why issues would arise by simply swapping out a 16gb MCHD card with that of a 32Gb card?

I have a Sansa Fuze V1, 8gb player and have read it will support a 32GB card.  I have used a valid card (tested good) and have been having nothing but playlist problems with it and have changed nothing and have been doing things the same way as before. 

Why would it matter?  It didn’t matter when I put in a 2 or when I went from that to an 8 and then to a 16.  But now, nothing but troubles.

Thank you

2

I don’t know, but starting multiple threads asking the same question worded diffferently is probably not going to get you any more answers than you’ve already got.

I took another look at your original post (on this subject) and noticed you said you have 5200 tracks on the player and card and were attempting to put on more. Later in the thread you claimed you were sucessful in adding more to the 32GB card, and therefore I am assuming you have well over those 5200 songs on it now, is that right?

There is an 8,000 track limit (as was mentioned in that thread also), but that is a loosely-based estimate from the manufacturer. Just like with gas mileage estimate quotes on new cars, one will rarely acheive those lofty goals. In fact, the reality is that many have posted here that they have hit the ceiling at 5,000 tracks or even less. Long track names, deeply-nested folder/file heriarchies, larger-sized embedded album art are some of the things that will affect this count.

Frankly, I think you’ve hit the wall and that’s why you’re having trouble adding additional playlists and everything with this 32GB card where you had no issues with the 16. You’ve just got too many tracks on the player/card combo and the database file on the player is not large enough to contain all of that track data plus the playlists too.

3

Tapeworm,

Not to split hairs, but several of these issues are separate. 

For example, MTP vs MSC or sycing issues, are different than issues involving a 16g vs 32g card.  I do appreciate the help/suggestions. 

On my 16Gb card, I have 4700 songs on the player and it runs with no problem.  I find it quite odd when getting to around 5200 or 5500 on the player with a 32gb card, that all of a sudden, issues start arising and this is when when more then a total of 12Gb of free space exists on the player. 

And if the thing won’t support a 32Gb card, then Sansa should say so. 

Thank you

4

@eleellis wrote:

Tapeworm,

 

Not to split hairs, but several of these issues are separate. 

For example, MTP vs MSC or sycing issues, are different than issues involving a 16g vs 32g card.  I do appreciate the help/suggestions. 

 

On my 16Gb card, I have 4700 songs on the player and it runs with no problem.  I find it quite odd when getting to around 5200 or 5500 on the player with a 32gb card, that all of a sudden, issues start arising and this is when when more then a total of 12Gb of free space exists on the player. 

 

And if the thing won’t support a 32Gb card, then Sansa should say so. 

Thank you

As Tapeworm said, it is possible to run into the file limit at significantly less than 8000 files. It sounds like this is what’s happening in your case. Try cleaning up your ID3 tags and/or simplifying your folder structure.

And the file limit has nothing to do with card size. It’s built into the firmware and is the same for ANY card, not just 32GB cards.

5

  1. Where exactly, officially,  does SanDisk claim the Fuze supports 32GB?

  2. Your 32GB card is working in the unit, hence it is supported to some extent. But as has been repeatedly noted, you are running into a database limit. It may be the number of tracks or even the number of characters in the database index file (Mtable.sys).

Back in 2008, when the Fuze was introduced, no one was calculating how much a 32GB card would hold. You got an old piece of hardware. It’s quite a good one, for sound and ergonomics, but it has limitations. If you want a high-capacity unit as defined in 2012…get one that wasn’t released four years ago. 

Or continue to believe that this is some evil conspiracy to defraud you. Whatever floats your boat.

6

Black-Rectangle,

On Sandisk’s one page from their site there is a listing of all their players and what players support what cards. Their page clearly shows their claim that the unit I have supports a 32GB card.  THAT is why I even bought a 32GB card. 

Don’t know what led up to your insult about conspiracy theories and the like, but I don’t know about you, but when a company says it’s product will do something, I expect it to do what it claims. 

Frankly, if SanDisk had stated at it’s site that use of a 32GB card may lead to issues, then I would NOT have bought a 32GB card. 

7

I think the “conspiracy theory” accusation comes from the fact that you’re ignoring what several people have told you (your problem is a database/tagging issue (which may be fixable with a little work on your part), NOT related to card size) and instead are insisting that Sandisk is lying about 32GB support.

8

@eleellis wrote:

Black-Rectangle,

 

On Sandisk’s one page from their site there is a listing of all their players and what players support what cards. Their page clearly shows their claim that the unit I have supports a 32GB card.  THAT is why I even bought a 32GB card. 

 

Don’t know what led up to your insult about conspiracy theories and the like, but I don’t know about you, but when a company says it’s product will do something, I expect it to do what it claims. 

 

Frankly, if SanDisk had stated at it’s site that use of a 32GB card may lead to issues, then I would NOT have bought a 32GB card. 

 

 

 

 

I think it works with 32GB cards fine (since you can play files from it). Just the sandisk firmware has trouble with large total numbers of files in your library. Probably things like 32 (or even 64GB) of FLAC files would work just fine, since they’re much larger per file. FWIW, if you want to have very large amounts of files, you can try out rockbox on your player. That firmware has no file limit (tested to several hundred thousand files). It also uses standard m3u playlists. Main downside would be no MTP support, which I think you mentioned in one of the other threads you were using with WMP.

9

gwk1967,

I’m not ignoring what people have said; yes, a couple of people have suggested the same thing at about the same time.  Some suggested things to try to solve this issue as well (use MSC, re-format, corrupted file, et cetera).  Many which I have tried and things that have ended with no success. 

What I find hard to believe is that such issues are being created by simply swapping out a 16gb for a 32 Gb card when the product is advertised as being able to handle a 32GB card. 

On top of that, how with a 16Gb card I had 4000 or so songs and had absolutely no issue with that card. What I find more plausible is that since the 32GB cards are newer additions and my player is older, that maybe SanDisk sold and marketed a product that has trouble with this newer card.    

10

@eleellis wrote:

gwk1967,

 

I’m not ignoring what people have said; yes, a couple of people have suggested the same thing at about the same time.  Some suggested things to try to solve this issue as well (use MSC, re-format, corrupted file, et cetera).  Many which I have tried and things that have ended with no success.

 

No, that is not what was suggested.  Go back and read the first reply to this thread.  You don’t need to format.  The problem isn’t the file system, its the files themselves.

11

The only music players SanDisk is currently marketing are the Fuze+ (different from the Fuze), the Clip+ and the Clip Zip.

http://sandisk.com/consumer-products/music-player

The Fuze+ is supposed to deal with 10,000 songs, though the actual number is probably lower.

The Fuze itself, introduced in (I think) 2008, is no longer made.

You have repeatedly been offered the correct explanation for your problem: It’s not the size of the card, it’s the number of files. When you switched from 16GB to 32GB you also added nearly a thousand  songs.

“On my 16Gb card, I have 4700 songs on the player and it runs with no problem.  I find it quite odd when getting to around 5200 or 5500 on the player with a 32gb card, that all of a sudden, issues start arising.”

Perhaps, just perhaps, that made some slight difference.

If you think it’s the card itself, I suggest you format the 32GB card and put exactly what you had working on the 16GB card onto the 32GB card–not more than that. I would be very surprised if the 32GB card behaved any differently than the 16GB with the same songs.

You have repeatedly been offered solutions/workarounds.

  1. Shorter filenames ahd minimal tag info/embedded art  (so your database file is shorter). You’ll still hit a limit eventually.

  2. Rockbox

Or get a refund and find the player of your dreams. Or write your own firmware. Or separate your collection onto two 16GB cards with <5000 songs each.

But all the posts in the world are not going to change what the old Fuze can or can’t do. 

My compact car was going uphill on my steep driveway just fine. Then I completely filled the trunk with rocks and now it scrapes.  I’M COMPLAINING TO THE MANUFACTURER!!!

Tell you what…listen all the way through that old 16GB of music and then  re-post.

12

Black Rectangle,

Frankly, I don’t get why you are being such an ass. 

For one, many of those that come here are most likely not "gurus’ such as yourself and yes, many may ask questions that have been asked before over and over again, heaven forbid.

But like I stated - if a company suggests their product will do something, then it should.

Unlike you, I grew up not in a throw away society where I try to fix things and keep them running for as long as possible instead of tossing them out just because a newer version or item is available. 

And like I stated - much more polite people did offer suggestions and not all of them were the same nor offered at the same time.  Unlike you, being the expert I guess, through this issue with this player, over time, I have learned more about it and early on, other folks offered different suggestions until the later file issues.

As for your moronic car comparisons…oh, geez…never mind…

13

You know, you’d probably get more polite replies if you weren’t such a jerk to people while asking them to help you. Just a thought.

14

@eleellis wrote:

Black Rectangle,

Frankly, I don’t get why you are being such an ass.  

 

I don’t agree with this _ass_essment (pun intended) at all and consider it quite ungrateful. BR  simply has been stating facts. Maybe he’s not sugar-coating them to your satisfaction, or being as “polite” as you think he should be but they are facts nonetheless. You however, seem insistent on either not believing those facts, or arguing apples and oranges.

Case in point:

@eleellis wrote:

 

But like I stated - if a company suggests their product will do something, then it should.

 

The 32GB card works just fine in the Fuze. As it does in all the rest of SanDisk’s SDHC-supported players. The general consensus here is that you have an entirely different issue involving the database limitation which has nothing to do with the compatibility of the card with the player or the memory size (which you’ve also been told). Hence, apples and oranges.

You claim your 16GB card worked fine with the player. OK, you were under the database limit. Now that you’ve added a larger memory card and transferred more music to it, you’ve hit the limit and are having problems. Again, that issue is not related to the 32GB card or the Fuze’s capability to use it, but rather how many files you are putting on it, given the extra memory space.

As BR said, the Fuze is an older player. Nothing wrong with that; I have several e200 series players myself and think they’re 2-3 times the machines that Sandisk is currently putting out. And as these models evolve, SanDisk is increasing the database limitation. The e200 series had a 2,000 track limit, the Fuze has an 8,000 track limit and the Fuze+ has a 10,000 track limit.

Should there even be a database limitation, and is it really necessary? No, I don’t think so and the folks at Rockbox have proven that firmware can be written to where it’s not an issue, but in reality that’s the way it is with the SanDisk firmware. Whether the developers at Sandisk can’t figure it out, or maybe for some political reason within the company are not allowed to, for whatever reason the limitations exists. So one must live within those means.

This does not mean that a 32GB card is incompatible, or won’t work with the Fuze player. It certainly will, and does provided one does not exceed that database limitation.

15

Saratoga,

Show me where I was a jerk to someone?

I complained about literature stating a product could handle a particular card and then get a condescending reply from a person accusing me believing in conspiracy theories and the like and replied accordingly.

So, show me where I was rude to this person?  So when someone is rude to me, I’m not going to thank them and ask for another. 

16

Tapeworm,

Again, I based my purchase of this card on literature provided by SanDisk and by future replies here from other posters regarding the capabilities of these products.

I took SanDisk and other information for it’s accuracy. 

Yes, I know the player is older and if SanDisk had stated in the literature then I would have possible purchased a different player instead of spending money on a 32Gb card and spending all this time getting it to work. 

But hey, guess if you come and stir up the guru hornets nest here with some questions or skepticism, look out…

17

@eleellis wrote:

Saratoga,

 

Show me where I was a jerk to someone?

 

I complained about literature stating a product could handle a particular card and then get a condescending reply from a person accusing me believing in conspiracy theories and the like and replied accordingly.

 

So, show me where I was rude to this person?  So when someone is rude to me, I’m not going to thank them and ask for another. 

If you consider it a polite to call someone an ass, maybe that is why you find so much trouble.  

18

eleellis wrote:

 

But hey, guess if you come and stir up the guru hornets nest here with some questions or skepticism, look out…

Questions and skepticism is OK.  Not OK are making false claims.  You made the false claim that the Fuze cannot support 32-GB cards.  You were corrected by other members. 

19

Gentlemen, thank you, but I have been called worse names by more important folks.

If you are really serious about making things work and not throwing them away, install Rockbox.   Problem solved.  

In one of your many, many threads you claimed that the supposedly false SanDisk claim of compatibility was a sneaky way to sell 32GB cards. That’s the conspiracy theory.

Obviously no one at all  would buy 32GB cards if SanDIsk were not falsely advertising a discontinued piece of equipment and the entire market for 32GB cards would collapse.

Frankly I think that SanDIsk should make clear that there is a limit on the number of songs/playlists on the Fuze.  It is misleading that it does not.

But it is probably difficult to assign that number since songs can be recorded at various bitrates–companies routinely list capacity for songs at 128kbps or even less, which sounds bad–and the database number is going to be very different if every tag lists the entire cast of an opera.  Since SanDisk is not selling the Fuze any more its opportunity to note the database limit is disappearing.

Here on the interwebs, with any capacity issue there is always someone who comes along to try some extreme test of that capacity: 32GB of 2kb files with long filenames, or something like that, which might even trip up Rockbox–though maybe not!

20

This thread is degenerating. I suggest that you clean up your tags, and get rid of embedded album art. Also remove all comments and remove all tags other than the ID3 V2.3 ISO 8859-1. Also remove the album artist tag.

simplify the file structure, and shorten folder names. Shorten file names and tags. After this the player will be able to fit more songs in its database.

With very short filenames, very short tags, and very short folder names, some have even gotten to have the player recognize over 8,000 songs, while others with embedded album art or long filenames or tags have hit the song limit with as few as around 4,500 songs.