Clicking or Ticking Noise in Voice Recording

MP3 players Sansa Fuze
1

It was pretty well established that some or all of the 8GB Fuze players have a low level clicking noise superimposed over the audio when the Fuze is used in the Voice Recording mode. My unit is exhibiting the problem. Unfortunately, I did not discover the problem until after I recorded my sickly,85 year old father-in-law over Easter.

Several people have suggested that the sound is external (it’s not), that a firmware upgrade will fix it (it will not), that reformating the memory will get rid of the clicking (it will not), that the backlight is causing the problem (it’s not), that the noise is audio clipping/digital full scale (it’s not), that you can filter it out (you can’t without a very sophisticaed DSP plug-in, which I don’t have), and that exchanging it for a new unit will solve the problem (it will not). I’ve been an audio recording engineer for 30+ years. The problem that those of with the problem are hearing is a noise that is being generated internally in the Fuze. My guess is that the problem is inherent in the unit and that nothing can be done about it.

To test whether your Fuze has the problem, take your unit into a very quiet room. Place it on record for a minute. Make sure there are no external noises. Stop recording after a minute. Transfer the wave file to your PC. Open the wave file in an audio editing program, such as Adobe Audition, Sony Vegas, or Audacity. Normalize the audio file (such that the maximum peak level of any part of the file is at 99% or so. Do not clip the wave form.) Listen to the file. If you do not hear a ticking sound every 83ms or so, you do not have the problem. 

If you go through this test and do not find a problem with your unit, I would very much appreciate you uploading the wave file and posting a link in this thread so that I can hear it.  I will try to do the same if anyone wants to hear the ticking sound.

It is really unfortunate that  these units have this problem. The recording quality of the Fuze is 22kHz 16 bit, which is excellent for voice-only recordings. The internal microphone is not bad, either. The clicking sound, however, makes the Voice Recorder feature useless. (The FM recording function does not have the problem, which indicates that the ticking sound is probably being picked up by the preamplifier for the internal microphone.)

If you have actually solved this problem or if you have heard of a solution, please post it. At this point, my assumption is that the problem is a design flaw in the Fuze. What would be helpful to know is whether some or all of these units have the flaw. 

EDITED TO ADD: Here is a file recorded on the Fuze. The only noise in the room is the air conditioner. The ticking sound is very clear.

ticking.wav

Message Edited by neumannu47 on 04-05-2010 11:38 AM

2

Message Edited by TomJensen on 05-03-2010 05:51 PM

3

Actually, quite a few people have reported the problem, and even more people have the problem but don’t realize it since they don’t use the voice recording capability. The problem is clearly a design defect even though not every unit is affected. The fact that it is a design problem is supported by the fact that people have exchanged their units for new ones and have observed the identical problem. 

Your comment that the Fuze is a low-fi mean of recording underestimates the capability of the unit. Its ability to record a 16-bit wave file at 24kHz sample rate is far beyond the capability that you would expect from this unit. However, it is what it is.

Even if you don’t think it is true, the Fuze would be an awesome voice-only recorder but for the ticking noise.

4

Didn’t you post this already?

5

You decide. Search is your friend. 

6

As an engineer, I would think that you would want to be a bit more rational when presenting data as evidence of design flaw. Unless you have actual data from overall returns of the Fuze, then what you are referring is anecdotal evidence at best, and not statistically qualified to mean anything.

Search on ‘fuze ticking’ on this forum. The ticking sound has been reported in various extenuating circumstances, some of which manifest in other audio functions, and some of which are tied to use of various headphones. Without a more rigorous examination, then the cause is undeterminate, and a claim of “audio recorder has a design problem” is specious.

What you say may well be true. But when you may far-reaching claims, you need solid data. People tend to have egocentric views, i.e. “the world revolves around me.” So, when they have a problem, the natural inclination is to think that it must be widespread.

Granted, claim or no claim, it doesn’t help your case. As you said, it is what it is.

7

For an engineer, I would think that you would want to be a bit more circumspect when presenting data as evidence of design flaw. Unless you have actual data from overall returns of the Fuze, then what you are referring is anecdotal evidence at best, and not statistically qualified to mean anything.

Search on ‘fuze ticking’ on this forum. The ticking sound has been reported in various extenuating circumstances, some of which manifest in other audio functions, and some of which are tied to use of various headphones. Without a more rigorous examination, then the cause is indeterminate, and a claim of “audio recorder has a design problem” is specious.

What you say may well be true. But when you may far-reaching claims, you need solid data. People tend to have egocentric views, i.e. “the world revolves around me.” So, when they have a problem, the natural inclination is to think that it must be widespread.

Granted, claim or no claim, it doesn’t help your case. As you said, it is what it is.

8

For an engineer, you should be a bit more circumspect when presenting data as evidence of design flaw. Unless you have actual data from overall returns of the Fuze, then what you are referring is anecdotal evidence at best, and not statistically qualified to mean anything.

Search on ‘fuze ticking’ on this forum. The ticking sound has been reported in various extenuating circumstances, some of which manifest in other audio functions, and some of which are tied to use of various headphones. Without a more rigorous examination, then the cause is indeterminate, and a claim of “audio recorder has a design problem” is specious.

What you say may well be true. But when you may far-reaching claims, you need solid data. People tend to have egocentric views, i.e. “the world revolves around me.” So, when they have a problem, the natural inclination is to think that it must be widespread.

Granted, claim or no claim, it doesn’t help your case. As you said, it is what it is.

9

I did a silent record test on my V1 (one of them) and a V2 (recently acquired).  It is inaudible on the V1.  It is definitely audible (with no ambient sound) on the V2.  It is the same clicking sound – like a swiss clock.  It clicks about 80 times per 30 seconds, which makes it a period of .375 seconds and frequency of around 2.67 ticks per second.  This eliminates the 30Hz/60Hz/120Hz line or flourescent lamp pick-up.  It is definitely internal.  Could be an alias frequency of an internal clock or time-out or polling circuit.  Now I see why people value the V1’s. Oh, all my Fuzes are 4 gigs.

ggin1

Message Edited by ggin1 on 04-08-2010 08:12 PM

10

Well, now you’ve got me curious.

Tested another Fuze: refurb 8GB v2.02.31A, no uSD, no headphone (same with previous v1 test). Ticking is confirmed.

15-sec recording

Three confirmed cases out of three doesn’t a design flaw make, but it’s good enough anecdotal evidence to warrant caution on buying v2’s if no-ticking recording is a checklist item.

11

I would love to get a V1 that doesn’t have the design defect. Ebay has a lot of Fuze’s listed, but they don’t list the version. Contrary to what others would have you believe, the unit has the ability to do some exceptional quality recordings for things such as talks, presenations, and church services. (It’s not going to suffice for a Neumann U47 microphone through a Millenium preamp and an 1176 into Pro Tools.

If anyone was a V1 for sale, please let me know.

12

If you’re buying a one-off, i.e. from another user, you can ask. If buying from a vendor, buy from a low-volume vendor who will take the time to check. Ask specifically for the exact version info from the System settings. Not likely the vendor can lie to make a sale. Make a comment on your invoice that you only will buy a v1.

13

"Didn’t you post this already? "

He posted it on the ABI board.

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54060

14

Correct, after no one replied here after a day.

15

I bought a sansa fuze 8gb today, and i tested the voice recording feature, and after i got that intrusive ticking sound, i did a search, and found myself here. I did notice, that while the device is recording, i can put my ear to the back of the device, and hear the ticking sound. Interestingly enough, i do not get the ticking noise while playing the radio, but the device is ticking like crazy while recording from the radio. (i mean i can hear the ticking while my ear is on the back of the device, on the actual recording from the radio there is no noise. the mic is picking up the noise being made by the unit while recording.) I think I will go and exchange it tomorrow, and hope that the next unit is better made.

16

Please let us know what you find.

17

Did anybody try to see if it made a difference if a microSD card was inserted? I wonder if it might insulate the tick. I don’t have one handy.

18

I have a MicroSD card in mine, and I get the ticking noise.

19

I bought two more Fuzes today, a new one from best buy and a refurb from micro center. The new one from best buy has a ticking noise, but it is far less pronounced, whereas the refurb doesn’t have any ticking at all. 

20

Is Micro Center local to you? If so, is there a way I could persuade you to buy one without the ticking and send it to me? Can you confirm that the non-ticking unit is a Version 1?