Problem Solved (With a new player)

I finally got tired of trying to tag these files so that they would play in the order I designate. I tried multiple solutions, including some I got here, and nothing seemed to produce the results I sought. I solved my problem by purchasing a Cowon iAudio U5 8 GB ($159.99 with case from Newegg), and was pleasantly surprised to see that I can load my folders via drag & drop without having to deal with WMP, and it will play my folders and the files therein in the proper order. In other words, it appears that this company is willing to provide its customers with what they want, or at least this customer with what he wants. From what I can see from other posts in this forum, it doesn’t appear that I’m the Lone Ranger either. I think I finally have a player that I won’t have to spend endless hours on trying to arrange my files to suit its requirements. So, goodbye Sansa Clip, and incidentally any other Sandisk product, such as the CF cards I use so often in my cameras, etc., that I have an alternative for.

And it only cost you $100 over what a 4GB Clip can be had for. Well, I suppose it DOES have twice the memory, and probably gapless playback, and other whiz bang features.

Gotta wonder…did you visit this forum before buying your Clip, and realize it did not have folder browsing? And did you look into the Cowon specs and/or check their forum before buying it to replace the Clip?

I and many others obviously have no problem with using the Clip; and if you know/learn how to properly tag all your files and how to make m3u playlists, it is BETTER than folder browsing because you don’t have to create special, redundant folders full of your selected media in order to listen to them in proper order.

To each his/her own but I feel that Sansa HAS been supportive. This forum is a great example, as you said, there are tons of posts, positive, negative, and many many posts bridging the gap. I see the Cowon U5 forum has a grand total of… lets see…ONE post to date: “Anyone else have a U5 yet”. LMAO

So you may not be the Lone Ranger, but you are now among the Guinea Pigs (but, you do have at least one other person as company).

Peace, and enjoy your wonderful solution to all your perceived Sansa problems.

Message Edited by Click on 06-12-2008 12:54 PM

@click wrote:

 

I and many others obviously have no problem with using the Clip; and if you know/learn how to properly tag all your files and how to make m3u playlists, it is BETTER than folder browsing because you don’t have to create special, redundant folders full of your selected media in order to listen to them in proper order.

Not that I’m trying to start a flame war, but I’ve been tagging and re-tagging my files for months now, and they still don’t appear properly (or consistently) on the Clip.

ID3 tags are better for you, but that doesn’t mean they’re better for everyone.  Yes, Sandisk has been great, and I can live with the randomness of ID3 tags, but when you tell people to do it your way or take a hike, a bunch of them are going to take the hike.  The OP has been a member since last month, and this was not his only post, so it’s probably safe to assume he made some sort of effort to adjust to the Clip way of doing things.

If he found a player that fit his needs better than the Clip, then good for him.  I won’t be joining him, but I won’t be slamming him for it either.

I never had a problem with the id3 tags, they show up fine on every file.  I don’t think the problem is with the player (unless they’re ogg files I guess). 

I don’t understand this fascination with outdated folders, id3 tags are so easy to use and to customise the way you want files to play (via playlists if necessary). 

PEBKAC

Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair. The topic definitely shows this is true. :) 

@cydewaze wrote:

Not that I’m trying to start a flame war, but I’ve been tagging and re-tagging my files for months now, and they still don’t appear properly (or consistently) on the Clip.

Exactly. I have done the same thing with the same result. I’ve explained this on other threads, but the reason for wanting to play files in order is that I listen to classical music and opera, and the tracks need to be played consecutively. Besides seeking advice in this forum, I sent 3 e-mails to Sandisk and have yet to receive a reply. I will not do business with a firm that ignores my requests. It does not seem to be possible to achieve that result with this player, so my alternative was to get one with which I could. The $160 I needed to spend is pocket change, and well worth it to get what I want. I’m long past accepting performance below what I want for a lower price, and certainly not with a company that does not respond to their customers.

@billyr wrote:

Exactly. I have done the same thing with the same result. I’ve explained this on other threads, but the reason for wanting to play files in order is that I listen to classical music and opera, and the tracks need to be played consecutively. Besides seeking advice in this forum, I sent 3 e-mails to Sandisk and have yet to receive a reply. I will not do business with a firm that ignores my requests. It does not seem to be possible to achieve that result with this player, so my alternative was to get one with which I could. The $160 I needed to spend is pocket change, and well worth it to get what I want. I’m long past accepting performance below what I want for a lower price, and certainly not with a company that does not respond to their customers.

I’m sure you’ve already been through this, but the track number field needs to be populated in order for the songs to play in order.

Sorry that customer support wasn’t more helpful to you.   I’ve never had to contact Sandisk for support, and have found the support here to be generally pretty good (despite the ones who suggest that users have some sort of intelligence problem because they want a certain feature).

Cheers. 

Candidly, if all I want to do (which typically is the case) is listen to tracks as if listening to full CDs, the file folder system is the easiest for me–no tag encoding is needed, as the information typically already is there (the CD title as folder name, and file names composed of the song names preceeded by track number as part of the ripping process).  Easy and, in its way, quite elegant.

But I also can see, for you track-ophiles, the benefits of tags. 

In the end, I wish the Clip allowed both, but I’ve adjusted …

:wink:

@cydewaze wrote:
I’m sure you’ve already been through this, but the track number field needs to be populated in order for the songs to play in order.

You’re right, I have indeed been through that. The Album field is also populated, and sometimes an Album shows up as Unknown as well as being out of order, even though the fields are populated with the Album names and consecutive numbers. When this happens I compare the tags on the offending file with one that is behaving properly in the player, and there is no difference in the way they are inserted. I have no problem with using tags, and in fact I will continue to use them, but if the tags are correct and the player still does not recognize them, I have no use for said player. I see discussion here about the player not recognizing this or that type tag, making m3u playlists and such like, and I am just not willing to spend that much time preparing files to play for an hour a day, after which time I set the player aside and don’t use it until the next day when I again take it out on the streets with me for my morning fitness walk. I’m a little surprised that more people don’t care if their files are played in random order, but that seems to be the case.

Anyway, I now have a player that will do what I want when I want without all this folderol, so I can give this one to Goodwill or something and take a tax deduction.

I highly doubt it’s the tags. The simplest explanation is the most likely one: Since almost everyone has no issues with ID3 tags and you do, you’re almost certainly doing something wrong. If you’re tagging files and the player isn’t reading it, I’m going to think it’s your fault before I think the player is at fault. Considering we all use the same firmware from the same developer, yeah. You’re definitely the problem.

PEBKAC

Read that a bit. Then we’ll talk about players that don’t do what you want. ;) 

@aircraftkiller wrote:

I highly doubt it’s the tags. The simplest explanation is the most likely one: Since almost everyone has no issues with ID3 tags and you do, you’re almost certainly doing something wrong. If you’re tagging files and the player isn’t reading it, I’m going to think it’s your fault before I think the player is at fault. Considering we all use the same firmware from the same developer, yeah. You’re definitely the problem.

In all actuality, you have no idea how many people have problems with the tags, since 1) only a tiny percentage of Clip owners will ever post on this forum, and 2) many who are having problems won’t bother to complain.  I’ve had problems with the tags since day one, but I was a member here for months before bothering to mention the tag problem.  You’re assuming that every non-complaint is a user with no tag problems, which is something we have no way of knowing.

Also, since we all use different operating systems, and different pieces of software to populate the tags, there could very easily be an issue with either one of these things that no one has run across yet.  Jumping to the conclusion that it must be the user isn’t very helpful, and this is supposed to be a help forum.

@aircraftkiller wrote:

 

PEBKAC

 

Read that a bit. Then we’ll talk about players that don’t do what you want. ;) 

It’s unfortunate that Sandisk allows this sort of thing to be posted on their forum.  I don’t think it’s very good business practice to allow forum members to take pot shots at each other over problems they’re having with the product.  Fortunately for Sandisk, most people have already purchased a product before they see this sort of thing, but I have to believe that if someone looked at this forum first, and saw how people were being treated, they’d thing twice about making a purchase, or at least about posting here.

@aircraftkiller wrote:

I highly doubt it’s the tags. The simplest explanation is the most likely one: Since almost everyone has no issues with ID3 tags and you do, you’re almost certainly doing something wrong. If you’re tagging files and the player isn’t reading it, I’m going to think it’s your fault before I think the player is at fault. Considering we all use the same firmware from the same developer, yeah. You’re definitely the problem.

 

PEBKAC

 

Read that a bit. Then we’ll talk about players that don’t do what you want. ;) 

I infer from your post that you have been successful in tagging files so that they will play in order of track no. Does “almost everyone who has no issues with track tags” play their files in order, or do they just not care that their tracks are played back in a random manner?

Perhaps you could look at the following from the Details pane in Windows Vista and set me straight as to what I’m doing wrong. First, the last track of an album that plays in the proper order:

Name: 2007-08-30_Prom 62-Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra_03_Mahler-Symphony No. 1 in D major

Artists: BBC Symphony

Album: 2007 Prom 63

#: 45

Genre: Classical

 

Now the info from the track immediately following, which is shunted to the end of the line (after track #97) in the player with an album name of “Unknown.”

Name: 2007-09-01_Sat Mat 4_01_Britten-The Way to the Sea

Artists: Nash Ensem

Album: Proms Sat Mat 4

#: 46

Genre: Classical

 

I would be very glad to know how I can get track # 46 to play after track # 45. I am perfectly willing to accept that I may be doing something wrong here, but until I know what it is I can’t correct it. My efforts thus far have not provided me with that information.

You need to create an M3U playlist with the files you want in the order you want them to play.

With playlists, it does not matter what folder the files are in, the M3U playlist file points to them and they are played, simple as. How is this achieved in folder browsing without literally moving and/or copying the desired files to the folder to be played? There’s the primary advantage of playlists versus folder browsing.

Lots of utils are out there to make M3Us and if you are a text file editing maniac, once you understand the simple syntax you can hand-code them as well.

For example mp3tag works great for making playlists. No matter what util you use, in order for the playlists to work correctly, you need to select the files ON THE CLIP not on your PC when making the playlist. Else the path in the M3U is not relevant (there is no C:\Documents and Settings\UserName\My Documents\My Music\MP3s\etc folder on the Clip!). A very common mistake there. 

A good percentage of people these days use ID3 tagging. It’s been around a while. It’s the logical replacement for folder browsing on MP3 players. It can’t be that difficult to save ID3 tags, especially when there’s software released that tags it quickly and easily. But yeah, sure. It’s the player that’s the problem. Not the user.

BTW: This isn’t a “help forum,” it’s a community discussion forum. There’s a particularly large difference between the two. Nobody here is under any obligation to “help” you as you complain about how it’s never your fault that the player you bought doesn’t work the way you want it to. You’re also taking this far too personally. I suggest you step back and look: it’s the internet. If it bugs you so much, oh well.

Billy: Your tags are done properly as far as I can see, except the track number only dictates the playback of a file in the same album. You have the songs issued to two different albums and thus the Clip believes (rightly so) that one is track 45 from one album and the other is track 46 from a separate album. If you rename the album to something like “classical songs” you’ll most likely fix your problem. All of my albums are played back correctly, one after the other, only because of track numbers and proper album tagging.

Did that solve the problem?

@aircraftkiller wrote:
Did that solve the problem?

Well, the problem was solved with the new player with folder view, which I’ve been using for a couple of days now and is performing to my satisfaction. It also has a large LCD screen which I can actually see in the sunlight, even through my polaroid sunglasses.

However, I had a little time to kill earlier this afternoon, and I used a comprehensive tutorial that another poster provided on this page:

http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=clip&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=7845#M7845

to tag some files in the Sansa, numbering them as you suggested by album, and they seem to be in the proper order in the player.

I would never have had to come to this forum for assistance, and finally getting a new player when this assistance was not forthcoming, if this kind of information had been provided by the vendor in the first place or I had been able to find it during my searches and posts here (FYI, my first post on this subject was this one some three weeks ago: http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=clip&thread.id=7108 

For whatever reason, the documentation provided with this device was inadequate to enable me to get the device to do what I wanted, so I did what I needed to do to accomplish that objective. The lack of response from Tech Support after three messages was also a factor.

If I had gotten this information earlier it would not have been necessary to take this step, but the new player suits me better in a couple of ways, such as the large LCD screen and the 8 GB capacity, so I’m afraid the Sansa (clipless, as the clip broke early on, and it’s now a SansaPouch) will be transferred to one of my children or another deserving recipient.

So I’m happy to now have a player that will do what I want the way I want it to do it, and the aficionados on this site can be happy that I won’t be asking for help any more, so everybody’s happy.

Thanks for the info on the track numbering.