8gig Sansa only shows 131 artists of over 150

I own a vast collection of CDs and Mp3’s which I converted to 65kbs WMA format to put on my 8gig Sansa fuze. I also added a 8gig external micro SD card to it as I have been in serious need of organizing all the music I have so I could listen to it whether in the yard, in the garage or car. My car and home stereo has the hookups and all that works well!!! Have noticed on this forum most others are more concerned with other issues that aren’t with music. My problem is I have everything well organized on both the internal 8 and external 8. Folders with Artists names and albums inside. All was going perfect til I ran over 131 Artists names now I am being chopped out of everything else! Shows well on the computer but the Sansa Fuze will not display the rest of the artists and is very disheartening as I have spent close to $200 to get all my music organized and readily accessable. I updated the firmware yesterday. I have spent close to 2 weeks getting about 90% of my music loaded when I now discover this problem of all Artists not showing. Have been thru the unknown artist bit and fixed all that. Everything is well tagged and organized. Out of 11 gigs of music on this unit, I believe is only showing about 8. Most of the ones that aren’t displaying are on the external drive. Also have formatted, reloaded and still the same response of only 131 total Artists showing up. If anyone has any idea what to do will really appreciate it. Have also emailed the technical support with SANSA. Am hoping to get some help and will let others know, just in case there is someone else as strange as me to have bought this thing for music only!!!

You may be running into the song count limit (4000?)  This is supposed to be expanded in a future firmware release.

edit: I don’t know whether it is a hard limit on number of songs, or the size of the database overall.  Either way, you are in that neighborhood with 8 gig of songs at 65 kb/s.

Message Edited by donp on 01-12-2009 10:21 AM

At 5,076 between the internal and external yes have surpased that 4,000 song limit. Guess I was a fool to buy this unit for the purpose of storing my entire music collection. Guess should be more concerned with silly crap like pod casts and such!!! Bent over again on this deal!!! Thanks for answering my question so quickly. Guess the SANSA techs figure once you buy the thing HA HA your stuck with it love it or leave it, considering they never answered me. Take care guess will have to do research to find one of these things that isn’t a USELESS TOY that will do what I need it to do. Guess for $150 the Jokes on me!!! Will be the last SANSA I will ever own!!!

Do yourself a favor and re-rip all those ‘pod-cast’ quality song files into something a bit more reasonable and higher quality for music (like 192 minimum kbps, more ideally 256). Your ears will thank you. Yes, they will be larger files and fewer of them will fit in the same space, reducing your chances of hitting the wall with the current (but soon to be fixed) song lmit.

External memory cards are super-cheap right now, so get a few more and spread out your collection on them at the higher bit-rates. Then you’ll still have your entire collection, and it will worth listening to.

If it makes you feel better to post a rant & threaten never to buy another Sansa again, then I’m glad we were able to accomodate you. But in claiming the $150 joke is on you, you are implying that you cannot get you money back.

If you do not agree with my suggestion, or that is not a viable option for you, and if this device does not meet your needs or expectations, simply take (or send) it back. No one is forcing you to keep it. Somebody with the patience & tolerance (or lack of) level you exhibit, certainly won’t be able to fully enjoy the unit the way it is anyway, so maybe this is the best alternative for you.

Good Luck. I hope you will be very happy with whatever else you find that has more features, storage and sound quality for the money spent compared to this device.

FC1103: I don’t necessarily want to throw salt in your wounds, but who’s fault is it that that the Fuse doesn’t suit your needs?  You weren’t forced at gunpoint to buy it… at least I hope not.

Research is your friend.  I started coming to this forum (lurking, unregistered mode) long before my purchase.  I was aware of the song limitation (as of now) by looking at some of the FAQs and posts here.

Don’t condemn the product, just because it isn’t the right device for you.  It certainly isn’t Sansa’s fault, but yours, plain and simple.  I hope you do a bit better research for you next player.

The increased song limit is planned for the next firmware upgrade by Feb-March timeframe.

Music files at 64kbps? That must sound dreadful…as Tapeworm said, podcast quality indeed

Bag Head

Just to be the Devil’s Avocate, Sansa could completely avoid this issue if they allowed the end user to simply organize by folder navigation.  The limitation is due to the “database” which gets compiled using the ID4tags embedded into the tracks.  The Fuze’s onboard memory can only handle a database of a given size.  By allowing folder navigation, in a “separate” folder mode, then the Sansa could basically turn off the “database” and allow the user to choose playback based on how the folders are stored in the FAT table of the flash memory.  Using the “media” database is reinventing the wheel, as it adds a database on top of the already existing FAT table.

By disabling the “database” allow the user to navigate by the FAT table only (albiet at a reduced functionality).  (For example, Shuffle would simply choose a random track, or Play All would simply start at one folder, and drill down and sequentially play the files in name order and then go to the next folder, et. al.)

While I am a big Sansa fan (M240, E280R and now Fuze), I have always advocated that Sansa provide for simple folder/file navigation.

Although simple Folder navigation and storage may disable some advanced functionality (such as how shuffle works and the ability to play by Genre, etc).  A “Folder” mode would allow the user to organize his files as he see’s fit, and then allow the user to point to a folder and play all the contents of that folder.

Another option is to use the onboard “flash” as a storage medium for the database.  This is how the large capacity IPods work.  They store their database on the hard drive.  Sandisk could possibly rewrite the code so that instead of storing the database in system memory, that it write it to flash.  This might lead to some slightly lowered access times, it still would kick the crap out of HDD based players.

I would be more than happy to sacrifice 512MB or 1GB of internal flash to allow me to fully populate a 32GB MicroSD card with my entire album collection.

I truly appreciate Sansafix and others who are addressing this issue, and remain a faithful Sansa proponent, but in fairness, this product should be able to address a 32GB SD Microcard full of 128kbit files even if some outside the box thinking is required.

If you are thinking mp3 at 64kbps you are right that it would be terrible.  WMA at 64kbps is very close to mp3 at 128kpbs.  Uses more battery as there is more work for the microprossessor.

@cfsacks wrote:

If you are thinking mp3 at 64kbps you are right that it would be terrible.  WMA at 64kbps is very close to mp3 at 128kpbs.  Uses more battery as there is more work for the microprossessor.

  

That’s a tough call without knowing which version of which encoder.  THe last face-off I saw, http://www.listening-tests.info/mf-128-1/results.htm

had lame mp3 within statistical error of being equal to WMA pro: 4.6/5 vs 4.7/5, both set at 128 kb/s (Ogg/vorbis came in at 4.79).  WMA standard would fare considerably worse at 128, never mind 64.  AFAIK Zune is about the only portable that plays WMA pro.  

 

Message Edited by donp on 01-13-2009 06:35 AM

64 kb/s?  Aw, that’s easy!  I’m quite used to that:

In 1955, this radio, the TR-1, was $49.95.  What is that in 2008 dollars, about $350?  Now, we have the Sansa.  Much better, methinks.  (Measured in terms of sound quality and value.)

Bob  :smileyvery-happy:

Guess I over re-acted and was a bit childish when I complained. I apologize for that an applaud those that could see thru my over reacting and try their best to help and alleviate the situation. I have gotten a few really good ideas on solving my problem. Will say have ripped so many CDs in the past to play MP3’s and it was on the default setting of 128/kbs. So when I tried the WMA setting of 64kbs was totally amazed that is sounded the same as MP3’s done at 128kbs. For those out there that haven’t tried that setting am disturbed how you can come back at me telling me I am listening to terrible sound. I suggest you give it a try before you condemn it and show me pics of old pocket radios. At the same point, yes have formated both the external and internal 8 gig and deciding on a new rate of ripping. Tried the 192kbs on MP3 and noticed it does sound a bit better, but takes up much space. So at present am looking for a happy medium that will give me decent sound. Also to put enough of my collection on it so I won’t spend a fortune in micro SDs and will work well with the 4000 song limit. Unfortunately before I read one of the replies I tried WMA PRO and found out the hard way the FUZE won’t play that format. Anyway I beg of those that just want to make fun of me, to think back to the time when they weren’t so knowledgeable. I know when I help others with problems I always consider that, and don’t condemn them for their lack of it.

@fuze_owner_gb wrote:

FC1103: I don’t necessarily want to throw salt in your wounds, but who’s fault is it that that the Fuse doesn’t suit your needs?  You weren’t forced at gunpoint to buy it… at least I hope not.

 

Research is your friend.  I started coming to this forum (lurking, unregistered mode) long before my purchase.  I was aware of the song limitation (as of now) by looking at some of the FAQs and posts here.

 

Don’t condemn the product, just because it isn’t the right device for you.  It certainly isn’t Sansa’s fault, but yours, plain and simple.  I hope you do a bit better research for you next player.

 

IMO it is Sandisk’s fault. I undertook extensive research when I bought the Fuze (as I always do with tech products), but I did not discover these forums or the file limit until after purchase. My belief is that the 4000 file limit is such a fundamental and unusual limit in a player which can currently be expanded to 24GB (as mine is) that it should be detailed in the product specification, which it isn’t. Relying on prospective purchasers stumbling across an internet forum (or perhaps relying on them not doing so?) is not acceptable.

 

I trust Sansa to fix this in the promised firmware update, but I do believe the company should make the limitation clearer in their published specification until that fix is in place. If they had done so, I would not have purchased the Fuze (and expansion card) until the fix was made.

@fifer wrote:


@fuze_owner_gb wrote:

FC1103: I don’t necessarily want to throw salt in your wounds, but who’s fault is it that that the Fuse doesn’t suit your needs?  You weren’t forced at gunpoint to buy it… at least I hope not.

 

Research is your friend.  I started coming to this forum (lurking, unregistered mode) long before my purchase.  I was aware of the song limitation (as of now) by looking at some of the FAQs and posts here.

 

Don’t condemn the product, just because it isn’t the right device for you.  It certainly isn’t Sansa’s fault, but yours, plain and simple.  I hope you do a bit better research for you next player.


 

IMO it is Sandisk’s fault. I undertook extensive research when I bought the Fuze (as I always do with tech products), but I did not discover these forums or the file limit until after purchase. My belief is that the 4000 file limit is such a fundamental and unusual limit in a player which can currently be expanded to 24GB (as mine is) that it should be detailed in the product specification, which it isn’t. Relying on prospective purchasers stumbling across an internet forum (or perhaps relying on them not doing so?) is not acceptable.

 

I trust Sansa to fix this in the promised firmware update, but I do believe the company should make the limitation clearer in their published specification until that fix is in place. If they had done so, I would not have purchased the Fuze (and expansion card) until the fix was made.

I guess we research things differently.  When I narrowed down my DMP choices to the fuze and another player, it took me all of 5 minutes to find out about the file number limit.  I still find no fault with Sandisk, as it is their product and they can design it in any way they see fit.   It suits my needs perfectly, but I concede it may not be the ideal player for everyone; no product is.

This problem will be moot shortly, as Sandisk has promised to increase the file limitation sometime this quarter.

And for the record, I’m a relatively new owner of Sandisk products.  I was a faithful consumer of a competitor of Sandisk for many, many years, but got tired of their poor support and deceptive advertising.

Sandisk may not be perfect, but are leaps ahead of many of it’s competitors.  I, for one, am a very happy customer and so very glad I switched players.

I meant no offense regarding the radio, in fact, for its day, the sound was fine.  I may have misread 64k wma vs mp3 , which at that rate is a significant difference.

My point was a mere one of inflated expectations.  Comparing the outlay for a portable music device, the Sansa is an incredible improvement over what you’d have to shell out years ago.  This was my point in showing the Regency TR-1, complete with a 22 1/2 volt battery and four transistors.  Not perceiving the difference, it’s interesting to see the anger over a little DAP not meeting expectations.

I’ve been spending many hours helping folks work out issues, and the recurrent angry theme is sometimes saddening.  Yet we continue, yes?  SanDisk is indeed working on updating the song database limit, as the capacity of these wee machines is increasing by leaps and bounds.  At least is isn’t really a matter of “tough cookies” as mentioned, SanDisk regularly updates these devices’ firmware, making many enhancements.

Bob  :smileyvery-happy:

Sandisk may not be perfect, but are leaps ahead of many of it’s competitors.

They probably are, but unfortunately not (yet) in one of the two main buy/don’t buy criteria for me (excellent sound quality and the capacity to store all my Ogg Vorbis collection). I’ve been using DAPs for years and have never encountered a file limit which prevented me from utilising all the capacity of a player with files ripped at commonly used rates. As you say, hopefully soon a moot point (or, more accurately, less of an issue as there will still be a limit and 32GB cards are on the way) but I still feel strongly that the limit is significant and unusual enought that it should be detailed in the manufacturers published specification. That it still isn’t and the manufacturer is aware that it is an issue with customers, concerns me.

Message Edited by Fifer on 01-13-2009 03:51 PM

For 90% of people the limit is no big deal. I dont know what I would do with 4000 songs. I would never hear them all. If this was an issue for more than the select few with the largest fuze with the largest expansion cards, then yeah sandisk needs to publish it and make it more well known, but it doesnt bother that many people.

My point on mp3 vs wma is that despite the Msoft party line, there’s no reason to think wma (standard) is even on a par with good current mp3 enoders at the same bit rate, never mind equivalent at half the rate.

You can certainly find mp3’s on line encoded with a mid 90’s vintage program that makes wma look good, but if you’re encoding them now, might as well use the modern stuff.

If you want to shave some space vs mp3, you’d do better with ogg/vorbis (of formats that play on Fuze)

@conversionbox wrote:

For 90% of people the limit is no big deal. I dont know what I would do with 4000 songs. I would never hear them all. If this was an issue for more than the select few with the largest fuze with the largest expansion cards, then yeah sandisk needs to publish it and make it more well known, but it doesnt bother that many people.

What possible advantage is there to Sansa in not publishing that part of the spec? They make a player which they promote as expandable (with another of their own products) which, if filled with normal length tracks ripped at typical rates, easily exceeds this woefully low file limit. The least they could do is warn people.

I don’t believe for a moment I’m the only person to have bought an 8GB  Sansa Fuze and a Sansa 16GB uSD card and want to use them with 192kbps or 160kbps tracks.

Message Edited by Fifer on 01-13-2009 04:09 PM

@fifer wrote:


@conversionbox wrote:

For 90% of people the limit is no big deal. I dont know what I would do with 4000 songs. I would never hear them all. If this was an issue for more than the select few with the largest fuze with the largest expansion cards, then yeah sandisk needs to publish it and make it more well known, but it doesnt bother that many people.


 

What possible advantage is there to Sansa in not publishing that part of the spec? They make a player which they promote as expandable (with another of their own products) which, if filled with normal length tracks ripped at typical rates, easily exceeds this woefully low file limit. The least they could do is warn people.

 

 

 

I don’t believe for a moment I’m the only person to have bought an 8GB  Sansa Fuze and a Sansa 16GB uSD card and want to use them with 192kbps or 160kbps tracks.

Message Edited by Fifer on 01-13-2009 04:09 PM

I agree you are not the only one. But Its not an issue of advantage but rather of “Why?” Why should they if this issue effects less than 1% of their clients? And If people think like me, and I have read lots that do, multiple cards make sense. If I were you and I had this issue, I would go buy another card. I have 2 x 2 gig cards, for my 2 gig fuze (I like to hear all of my music on a regular rotation). This is not such a radical concept either.