For me the benefits of larger capacity (and song limit) are two-fold: 1) If I can store/carry my entire library it eliminates the “Do I have it?” question and 2) A large part of my use is Play All + Shuffle, so larger capacity = greater diversity.
EVERY song I load is a song I like so no need to navigate quickly for me. I use the shuffle 100% of the time. If the limit isn’t fixed soon I think the Fuze will be listed on Ebay for what ever I can get for it and look for something with more capacity. I’m not happy with the false/misleading info SanDisk used to describe the Fuze.
Why is everyone complaining that is takes a long time to get through lists? With the newest (01.01.15) firmware, I can go to the music list, hold the down or menu button, and it goes through my 526 songs in about 10 seconds. That’s pretty fast, isn’t it?
@ Sansafix: Sounds cool! I can’t wait for the next firmware!
Message Edited by gabe565 on 12-10-2008 04:06 PM
I think maybe you’re talking about the Clip’s tubo scrolling (which is quite good). AFAIK on the Fuze, there’s nothing you can do other than rotate the wheel a million times to get through a big list.
I bought my Fuze after searching for the best replacement for my Rio Karma specifically because I thought I could have all my music with me (5000+ tracks as I do with my Karma) with the 8GB internal memory and 16GB card. None of Sansa’s published information that I’m aware of, makes this daft track limit clear to customers.
A better question would be, why would a manufacturer release a DAP capable of using so much storage and cripple it with a low track limit?
This appears to have been a situation that happens a lot in large companies; one hand doesn’t know what the other is doing (or isn’t co-ordinated with). In this case, the Fuze was in development; designed for 8GB on-board and the largest card SanDisk (or anybody) made at the time was also an 8GB for a total of 16GB. They didn’t plan on (although in retrospect they probably should have) that users would be ripping at such ridiculously low bit-rates that they would reach the database ‘glass ceiling’.
At the same time, SanDisk was also developing (or it was in the works) the 16 GB card. But as there wasn’t one yet available, the Fuze dev. team didn’t have one for testing and discovering this ‘limitation’.
So now they are in the position of back-pedaling in trying to resolve this dilemma. It hasn’t been officially said, but my thoughts are that this could be at least one of the reason(s) we are seeing the Hardware Rev.2 model recently as this possibly could address this issue for the future. IF this is true however, exactly how SanDisk is going to pacify the millions of existing Rev.1 Fuze owners in solving this issue is still up in the air.
Of course, this is just supposition on my part, and I could be totally off-base. It may just be as simple as changing vendors for the PCB board, or a financial consideration (another vendor giving them a lower price) or who knows what?
One _ does _ have to wonder though, if a bunch of geeks & hackers working on their own time and receiving no pay at all could solve this, and other issues in developing & writing the Rockbox firmware, why couldn’t some of the supposedly ‘best in the business’ do the same?
Notice the date on that news release? Oct. 22, 2008. Almost 2 months ago now. :
But if you notice the title it says “SanDisk Developing 128 GB Micro-SD Card For 2011 Release”. Maybe by then the Fuze will be better or probably time to replace it.
My camera, I used 200+ photos easily (yes just of my dogs, my male dog was sick and I wanted photos of him, lots). So it was easy for me to use those. And take other miscellaneous photos. I think I was having too much fun with my camera. And now I’m trying out the video of it (not the best, but useable). So I went and bought a 4gb card (the max the camera said it would take).
Message Edited by Dalaug234 on 12-11-2008 09:15 AM
This appears to have been a situation that happens a lot in large companies; one hand doesn’t know what the other is doing (or isn’t co-ordinated with). In this case, the Fuze was in development; designed for 8GB on-board and the largest card SanDisk (or anybody) made at the time was also an 8GB for a total of 16GB. They didn’t plan on (although in retrospect they probably should have) that users would be ripping at such ridiculously low bit-rates that they would reach the database ‘glass ceiling’.
At the same time, SanDisk was also developing (or it was in the works) the 16 GB card. But as there wasn’t one yet available, the Fuze dev. team didn’t have one for testing and discovering this ‘limitation’."
When the development of the Fuze began, who would have thought that flash memory prices would have dropped so much so soon? While those within Sandisk probably realized 16 gig micro SD cards were being developed, they may have thought they would appear at around the $200 mark retail, and be for higher end applications, and not around 1/3 of that price. Perhaps they felt few people would want to buy a 16 gig micro SD card to put into a Fuze. The navigation scheme of the Fuze seems like it was designed with 2 to 12 or at most 16 gigs of storage in mind. Navigation through a large number of songs without folder navigation or indexed navigation seems limited and tedious. The Fuze was released as a budget player. It is hard for a budget player to also serve as a high capacity player. That is why imo Sandisk needs to replace the View with a player that has higher sound quality, a full sized SDHC card slot, and longer battery life(it would be nice if it would also navigate by a choice of folders or tags, with an option to disable tag browsing to eliminate the refresh time after swapping cards). A player that holds 2 or more full sized SDHC cards would be great. Why haven’t we seen any of these?
This is correct the Fuze was originally designed at a time when 4 GB cards were expensive and 8 GB cards we outrageously expensive. So we designed it to handle 8 GB internal and 8 GB external storage.
Now, 16 GB is becoming available, at a good price, so we are working hard to make improvements to allow users to get the most out of these cards.
This is correct the Fuze was originally designed at a time when 4 GB cards were expensive and 8 GB cards we outrageously expensive. So we designed it to handle 8 GB internal and 8 GB external storage.
Now, 16 GB is becoming available, at a good price, so we are working hard to make improvements to allow users to get the most out of these cards.
Message Edited by sansafix on 12-11-2008 09:54 AM
Good news, sansafix! We really appreciate all your efforts on this forum.
Thanks for getting our collective heads straight on this whole issue, Sanafix. Progress foward can’t always be a straight line that can be charted and scheduled.
Do you think, I won’t hold you responsible, but have you heard from the “brainiacs” if this 4120 song count CAN be fixed via firmware, or will this need a new Fuze model. If the later is the case, how likely could there be some kind of rebate/discount for current Fuze owners towards this “next generation” Fuze?
Message Edited by bobletteross on 12-11-2008 10:58 AM
This is correct the Fuze was originally designed at a time when 4 GB cards were expensive and 8 GB cards we outrageously expensive. So we designed it to handle 8 GB internal and 8 GB external storage.
Now, 16 GB is becoming available, at a good price, so we are working hard to make improvements to allow users to get the most out of these cards.
Message Edited by sansafix on 12-11-2008 09:54 AM
That’s all verywell sansafix (and I genuinely do appreciate your efforts), but when I bought my Fuze, it was 8GB and SanDisk were selling 16GB cards (I bought the Fuze and the card together), but your company still was not making the track limit clear to customers (nor is it yet as I understand it). That’s misleading customers at best.
I wouldn’t say it is misleading except if an ad suggests adding a 16 gig card to the player but doesn’t mention the song limit. Enough people use 192 kbps or a higher bitrate and have songs averaging over 5 minutes long, so even with 24 gigs storage in the player and the memory full, the song count is still below 4,000.
Hopefully this 4,000 song limit will be expanded soon. I do wonder though how easy navigation would be on a Fuze crammed with 24 gigs of songs at 128 kbps averaging 3 minutes each, or roughly 8640 songs on the player. My Fuze has well under 1,000 songs on it, and already I feel like I am doing too much wheel spinning.
I wouldn’t say it is misleading except if an ad suggests adding a 16 gig card to the player but doesn’t mention the song limit. Enough people use 192 kbps or a higher bitrate and have songs averaging over 5 minutes long, so even with 24 gigs storage in the player and the memory full, the song count is still below 4,000.
Sorry, but I’m not buying that. SanDisk make the Fuze with a card slot and Sandisk make 16GB cards. It’s unimaginable that they haven’t considered customers using one with the other. I can get more than 4120 192kbps Ogg Vorbis tracks into 24GB easily. Most people rip for portable players at a lower rate. Almost every DAP manufacturer estimates capacity based on rates less than 192kbps. I can’t see how Sansa aren’t misleading customers at best.
@sansafix wrote:
This limit can be increased in Firmware. We are expecting a significant increase (target is 8000 songs) by Q1, 2009.
Message Edited by sansafix on 12-11-2008 12:06 PM
@sansafix wrote:
This limit can be increased in Firmware. We are expecting a significant increase (target is 8000 songs) by Q1, 2009.
Message Edited by sansafix on 12-11-2008 12:06 PM
Thankyou sansafix.
DITTO from me! I can hold out swappin’ between my 8 gig cards a little while longer, “I hope me and da boyz don’t hafta pay youz a visit on 4/01/09, Sansafix”
@sansafix wrote:
This limit can be increased in Firmware. We are expecting a significant increase (target is 8000 songs) by Q1, 2009.
Glad to hear this will be fixed in a firmware update. But isn’t targetting 8000 songs a bit short-sighted? In a year or so when people try to fill their 64 GB cards they will hit the limit again, and you might have stopped releasing firmware updates by then.
Why is there a song limit at all? Or if there has to be one, why isn’t it some ridiculous high number like 65536 or even higher?
I wouldn’t say it is misleading except if an ad suggests adding a 16 gig card to the player but doesn’t mention the song limit. Enough people use 192 kbps or a higher bitrate and have songs averaging over 5 minutes long, so even with 24 gigs storage in the player and the memory full, the song count is still below 4,000.
Sorry, but I’m not buying that. SanDisk make the Fuze with a card slot and Sandisk make 16GB cards. It’s unimaginable that they haven’t considered customers using one with the other. I can get more than 4120 192kbps Ogg Vorbis tracks into 24GB easily. Most people rip for portable players at a lower rate. Almost every DAP manufacturer estimates capacity based on rates less than 192kbps. I can’t see how Sansa aren’t misleading customers at best.
They weren’t making 16gb cards when they introduced the Fuze. I have 16.5 GB of music ,and it’s less than 4,000 tracks, so as they originally introduced it, it wasn’t misleading in the least. And to generalize like “most people rip at lower bitrates” is a stretch…JK98 was correct, a lot of people do rip at higher bitrates or have longer songs. You should be grateful that they are addressing the issue, as opposed to being petulant about the whole thing:stuck_out_tongue:
I wouldn’t say it is misleading except if an ad suggests adding a 16 gig card to the player but doesn’t mention the song limit. Enough people use 192 kbps or a higher bitrate and have songs averaging over 5 minutes long, so even with 24 gigs storage in the player and the memory full, the song count is still below 4,000.
Sorry, but I’m not buying that. SanDisk make the Fuze with a card slot and Sandisk make 16GB cards. It’s unimaginable that they haven’t considered customers using one with the other. I can get more than 4120 192kbps Ogg Vorbis tracks into 24GB easily. Most people rip for portable players at a lower rate. Almost every DAP manufacturer estimates capacity based on rates less than 192kbps. I can’t see how Sansa aren’t misleading customers at best.
They weren’t making 16gb cards when they introduced the Fuze. I have 16.5 GB of music ,and it’s less than 4,000 tracks, so as they originally introduced it, it wasn’t misleading in the least. And to generalize like “most people rip at lower bitrates” is a stretch…JK98 was correct, a lot of people do rip at higher bitrates or have longer songs. You should be grateful that they are addressing the issue, as opposed to being petulant about the whole thing:stuck_out_tongue:
They were making 16GB cards when I bought my Fuze with no warning of the limit, which SanDisk were aware of. I did not 'generalise, but stated that I rip at 192kbps and have encountered the limit. It is a fact that most DAP users do rip at lower bit rates. I don’t believe I’m being petulant, but have a legitimate complaint. I appreciate it is being addressed, but had Sansa been upfront about the limit, I wouldn’t have purchased the product.
