will177 wrote:
So anyway, how are SanDisk doing? Do they have ANY format playing gaplessly yet?
Thanks!
In terms of what’s public, only on models with Rockbox. Haven’t tried gapless on my e200 running Linux.
I’m another Fuze owner that is begging for gapless. I’m looking to finally retire my Rio Karma, but gapless is the remaining hurdle for the Fuze. Considering the Karma came out in '03, and has yet to be surpassed in features, I’m not sure why this would take so long to implement in current products, particularly those that are willing to include flac.
So close, yet so many interruptions in my live recordings.
I have a Karma too.
Let see, “its not surpassed in features”
It does not support Podcasts or Audiobooks Well and have a resume feature.
It does not support Rhapsody, Napster or Netlibrary content.
It does not have a microsd slot to allow expansion.
Its, huge, weight a ton and has average to poor battery life.
It has no Video support or Photo support.
It has no FM tuner.
But - it has gapless playback.
The Karma cost $200 brand new and its board has a huge amount of DRAM. It can load both songs into its ram to facilitate gapless playback. It doesnt need to deal with DRM protected Gapless content.
Dont get me wrong, Gapless will be nice to have some day on Fuze. But these developments take time and have architectural implications.
Gapless will not be included in the next firmware release this month. Perhaps someday it will, assuming time and resources permit it.
Sorry to dissapoint,
SansaFix
There’s another thing the Karma had that the Fuze doesn’t - a hard drive that was prone to failures! 
I nearly bought a Karma until reading the Karma boards. Now, I realize that no one’s going to post saying, “hey my player is working!”, but the occurrence of hard drive failures were enough that even regular posters were accepting it as a downside of the player.
@sansafix wrote:
It does not support Rhapsody, Napster or Netlibrary content.
Support sites indicate it supports the M$soft DRM Plays-for-sure (aka “Pays for sure”) used for Rhapsody and Napster downloads. Don’t know about Netlibrary.
That was the main reason it didn’t have an open environment like other players from the Empeg group.
For the day it was on the compact side, and 15 hour (advertised) battery life was pretty good for a HD player.
The Hitachi drive may have been failure prone, but nobody at the time had a real track record with 1.8 inch drives, and it is replaceable.
Message Edited by donp on 03-19-2009 02:28 PM
@sansafix wrote:
I have a Karma too.
Let see, “its not surpassed in features”
It does not support Podcasts or Audiobooks Well and have a resume feature.
It does not support Rhapsody, Napster or Netlibrary content.
It does not have a microsd slot to allow expansion.
Its, huge, weight a ton and has average to poor battery life.
It has no Video support or Photo support.
It has no FM tuner.
But - it has gapless playback.
The Karma cost $200 brand new and its board has a huge amount of DRAM. It can load both songs into its ram to facilitate gapless playback. It doesnt need to deal with DRM protected Gapless content.
Dont get me wrong, Gapless will be nice to have some day on Fuze. But these developments take time and have architectural implications.
Gapless will not be included in the next firmware release this month. Perhaps someday it will, assuming time and resources permit it.
Sorry to dissapoint,
SansaFix
So your saying you’ve added improvements that have come about over the past six years. Why not include things that existed six years ago.
By the way, I have no problems using podcasts, I’m not interested in music services that provide low quality files, Mine now has flash memory currently at 32G, which is expandable, Huge for today was quite small for six years ago, A new battery now lasts well over 20 hours, I’m not interested in photo or video support from small music devices, and FM radio blows.
Considering I was comparing the Fuze with what is still considered by audiophiles to be one of the best products to ever come out, I’m not sure why the attack.
@daibutsu wrote:
@sansafix wrote:
I have a Karma too.
Let see, “its not surpassed in features”
It does not support Podcasts or Audiobooks Well and have a resume feature.
It does not support Rhapsody, Napster or Netlibrary content.
It does not have a microsd slot to allow expansion.
Its, huge, weight a ton and has average to poor battery life.
It has no Video support or Photo support.
It has no FM tuner.
But - it has gapless playback.
The Karma cost $200 brand new and its board has a huge amount of DRAM. It can load both songs into its ram to facilitate gapless playback. It doesnt need to deal with DRM protected Gapless content.
Dont get me wrong, Gapless will be nice to have some day on Fuze. But these developments take time and have architectural implications.
Gapless will not be included in the next firmware release this month. Perhaps someday it will, assuming time and resources permit it.
Sorry to dissapoint,
SansaFix
So your saying you’ve added improvements that have come about over the past six years. Why not include things that existed six years ago.
By the way, I have no problems using podcasts, I’m not interested in music services that provide low quality files, Mine now has flash memory currently at 32G, which is expandable, Huge for today was quite small for six years ago, A new battery now lasts well over 20 hours, I’m not interested in photo or video support from small music devices, and FM radio blows.
Considering I was comparing the Fuze with what is still considered by audiophiles to be one of the best products to ever come out, I’m not sure why the attack.
That was not an attack…it was simply a statement of facts
@daibutsu wrote:
So your saying you’ve added improvements that have come about over the past six years. Why not include things that existed six years ago.
By the way, I have no problems using podcasts, I’m not interested in music services that provide low quality files, Mine now has flash memory currently at 32G, which is expandable, Huge for today was quite small for six years ago, A new battery now lasts well over 20 hours, I’m not interested in photo or video support from small music devices, and FM radio blows.
Considering I was comparing the Fuze with what is still considered by audiophiles to be one of the best products to ever come out, I’m not sure why the attack.
Yeah, I’m with you on all those points. Not sure why the attack either. I’m guessing that they’re not going to do gapless (ever?) and want the subject to be dropped and are trying to side-track the discussion. Don’t they want customer feedback?
I guess gapless just doesn’t pay for them, but personally I think it is terrible that they cannot produce a product that reproduces music playback accurately. Why can’t companies produce decently engineered products any more? It’s a disgrace. And what confidence can we have in *any* of their future features if we know they cannot even be bothered to implement audio playback properly. It’s a half-finished job. Shame. (Let me guess, video format playback is severely limited too and not standards based at all? I hope I’m wrong there as that would kill the product.)
And yeah, FM radio blows!
@will177 wrote:
@daibutsu wrote:
So your saying you’ve added improvements that have come about over the past six years. Why not include things that existed six years ago.
By the way, I have no problems using podcasts, I’m not interested in music services that provide low quality files, Mine now has flash memory currently at 32G, which is expandable, Huge for today was quite small for six years ago, A new battery now lasts well over 20 hours, I’m not interested in photo or video support from small music devices, and FM radio blows.
Considering I was comparing the Fuze with what is still considered by audiophiles to be one of the best products to ever come out, I’m not sure why the attack.
Yeah, I’m with you on all those points. Not sure why the attack either. I’m guessing that they’re not going to do gapless (ever?) and want the subject to be dropped and are trying to side-track the discussion. Don’t they want customer feedback?
I guess gapless just doesn’t pay for them, but personally I think it is terrible that they cannot produce a product that reproduces music playback accurately. Why can’t companies produce decently engineered products any more? It’s a disgrace. And what confidence can we have in *any* of their future features if we know they cannot even be bothered to implement audio playback properly. It’s a half-finished job. Shame. (Let me guess, video format playback is severely limited too and not standards based at all? I hope I’m wrong there as that would kill the product.)
And yeah, FM radio blows!
They are working on it… Did you not read what Sansafix said? The most telling statement is when he said"
“Dont get me wrong, Gapless will be nice to have some day on Fuze. But these developments take time and have architectural implications.”
Lets break this statment down shall we?
Dont get me wrong, Gapless will be nice to have some day on Fuze. But these developments take time and have architectural implications.
SOMEDAY: Means not today. It means that this could happen in the future. Thats what we have heard since this issue was first raised. There is an old saying: “All good things come to those who wait” Lets use this as our mission statement. WAIT and GOOD things WILL come.
Dont get me wrong, Gapless will be nice to have some day on Fuze. But these developments take time and have architectural implications.
Again he tells us to WAIT that it cant be done overnight, older players had it because thats all they had. They couldnt play videos which NEWSFLASH is why a lot of people buy the Fuze. They Didint have FM TUNER which is (despite your opinions) A VERY POPULAR FEATURE. Then he says that these developement have ARCHITECTURAL IMPLICATIONS. It is possible that with the current hardware and current setup the Fuze ant handle gapless. If not I guess people will have to find a way to get by. I beliee the devleopment team can get this feature up and running if we all back off and let them work.
ONE FINAL NOTE
Go and look at the Ipod forums. They dont have gapless and the development teams there DONT CARE! They arent even working on it. At least SanDisk is listening to us. If you feel so bad that this feature wont be in this firmware then I suggest you go back to your acient players that had it. And I hope you have a very happy life with them. ME I will be patient and give Sansafix and his buddies at SanDisk the benifift of the doubt and rest on the fact that they are working on it.
@conversionbox wrote:
@will177 wrote:
@daibutsu wrote:
So your saying you’ve added improvements that have come about over the past six years. Why not include things that existed six years ago.
By the way, I have no problems using podcasts, I’m not interested in music services that provide low quality files, Mine now has flash memory currently at 32G, which is expandable, Huge for today was quite small for six years ago, A new battery now lasts well over 20 hours, I’m not interested in photo or video support from small music devices, and FM radio blows.
Considering I was comparing the Fuze with what is still considered by audiophiles to be one of the best products to ever come out, I’m not sure why the attack.
Yeah, I’m with you on all those points. Not sure why the attack either. I’m guessing that they’re not going to do gapless (ever?) and want the subject to be dropped and are trying to side-track the discussion. Don’t they want customer feedback?
I guess gapless just doesn’t pay for them, but personally I think it is terrible that they cannot produce a product that reproduces music playback accurately. Why can’t companies produce decently engineered products any more? It’s a disgrace. And what confidence can we have in *any* of their future features if we know they cannot even be bothered to implement audio playback properly. It’s a half-finished job. Shame. (Let me guess, video format playback is severely limited too and not standards based at all? I hope I’m wrong there as that would kill the product.)
And yeah, FM radio blows!
They are working on it… Did you not read what Sansafix said? The most telling statement is when he said"
“Dont get me wrong, Gapless will be nice to have some day on Fuze. But these developments take time and have architectural implications.”
Lets break this statment down shall we?
Dont get me wrong, Gapless will be nice to have some day on Fuze. But these developments take time and have architectural implications.
SOMEDAY: Means not today. It means that this could happen in the future. Thats what we have heard since this issue was first raised. There is an old saying: “All good things come to those who wait” Lets use this as our mission statement. WAIT and GOOD things WILL come.
Dont get me wrong, Gapless will be nice to have some day on Fuze. But these developments take time and have architectural implications.
Again he tells us to WAIT that it cant be done overnight, older players had it because thats all they had. They couldnt play videos which NEWSFLASH is why a lot of people buy the Fuze. They Didint have FM TUNER which is (despite your opinions) A VERY POPULAR FEATURE. Then he says that these developement have ARCHITECTURAL IMPLICATIONS. It is possible that with the current hardware and current setup the Fuze ant handle gapless. If not I guess people will have to find a way to get by. I beliee the devleopment team can get this feature up and running if we all back off and let them work.
ONE FINAL NOTE
Go and look at the Ipod forums. They dont have gapless and the development teams there DONT CARE! They arent even working on it. At least SanDisk is listening to us. If you feel so bad that this feature wont be in this firmware then I suggest you go back to your acient players that had it. And I hope you have a very happy life with them. ME I will be patient and give Sansafix and his buddies at SanDisk the benifift of the doubt and rest on the fact that they are working on it.
Yes, their ancient players that they modded…if they were so great, why mod them?
There is an old saying: “All good things come to those who wait” Lets use this as our mission statement. WAIT and GOOD things WILL come.
Dont get me wrong, Gapless will be nice to have some day on Fuze. But these developments take time and have architectural implications.
Again he tells us to WAIT that it cant be done overnight, older players had it because thats all they had. They couldnt play videos which NEWSFLASH is why a lot of people buy the Fuze. They Didint have FM TUNER which is (despite your opinions) A VERY POPULAR FEATURE.
The thread happened to turn to a player without an FM tuner, but there are certainly others that had them. Mine (from 2002) had FM tuner, built in FM transmitter, gapless playback, bookmarks, resume, etc etc. No, it doesn’t play video. It’s a MUSIC player! Navigate by file/folder was added in a firmware update because CUSTOMERS WANTED IT and they weren’t shouted down for saying so.
Then he says that these developement have ARCHITECTURAL IMPLICATIONS. It is possible that with the current hardware and current setup the Fuze ant handle gapless. If not I guess people will have to find a way to get by. I beliee the devleopment team can get this feature up and running if we all back off and let them work.
ONE FINAL NOTE
Go and look at the Ipod forums. They dont have gapless and the development teams there DONT CARE! They arent even working on it.
Excuse me? If you read them (or other sources Google could serve you) Ipods >= 5G, or Nano >= 2G can play gapless, some models requiring a firmware update. Why? Because customers were adamant about it in those forums.
At least SanDisk is listening to us. If you feel so bad that this feature wont be in this firmware then I suggest you go back to your acient players that had it. And I hope you have a very happy life with them.
I can be patient too, but on the side of not having yet bought a Fuze. Aside from a Clip, every player I’ve ever owned (including an e200) plays gapless.
ME I will be patient and give Sansafix and his buddies at SanDisk the benifift of the doubt and rest on the fact that they are working on it.
I do know that patience and waiting isn’t the universal cure. History shows that Sansa will drop Fuze firmware development like a hot brick as soon as they have a replacement model.
@donp wrote:
There is an old saying: “All good things come to those who wait” Lets use this as our mission statement. WAIT and GOOD things WILL come.
Dont get me wrong, Gapless will be nice to have some day on Fuze. But these developments take time and have architectural implications.
Again he tells us to WAIT that it cant be done overnight, older players had it because thats all they had. They couldnt play videos which NEWSFLASH is why a lot of people buy the Fuze. They Didint have FM TUNER which is (despite your opinions) A VERY POPULAR FEATURE.
The thread happened to turn to a player without an FM tuner, but there are certainly others that had them. Mine (from 2002) had FM tuner, built in FM transmitter, gapless playback, bookmarks, resume, etc etc. No, it doesn’t play video. It’s a MUSIC player! Navigate by file/folder was added in a firmware update because CUSTOMERS WANTED IT and they weren’t shouted down for saying so.
Then he says that these developement have ARCHITECTURAL IMPLICATIONS. It is possible that with the current hardware and current setup the Fuze ant handle gapless. If not I guess people will have to find a way to get by. I beliee the devleopment team can get this feature up and running if we all back off and let them work.
ONE FINAL NOTE
Go and look at the Ipod forums. They dont have gapless and the development teams there DONT CARE! They arent even working on it.
Excuse me? If you read them (or other sources Google could serve you) Ipods >= 5G, or Nano >= 2G can play gapless, some models requiring a firmware update. Why? Because customers were adamant about it in those forums.
At least SanDisk is listening to us. If you feel so bad that this feature wont be in this firmware then I suggest you go back to your acient players that had it. And I hope you have a very happy life with them.
I can be patient too, but on the side of not having yet bought a Fuze. Aside from a Clip, every player I’ve ever owned (including an e200) plays gapless.
ME I will be patient and give Sansafix and his buddies at SanDisk the benifift of the doubt and rest on the fact that they are working on it.
I do know that patience and waiting isn’t the universal cure. History shows that Sansa will drop Fuze firmware development like a hot brick as soon as they have a replacement model.
Donp What player are you talking about? I would be interested to know. MyIpod refrence is as much about how this issue was treated at CES this year. When asked about gapless on the new players (Touch primarilly) the idea was dismissed, the same reaction was given to folder nav. And in my “rant” I didnt evn consider rockbox (which is how i assume you got gapless on your e200). I definitally went a little nuts but it bugs the life out of me when sombody like Sansafix come on and tries to contribute to the conversation and because he can shed some light on this thing, people assume he is attacking them or they get all up in arms because the response isnt exactly what they want. I want gapless as much as anybody so I can listen to albums like Dark Side of the Moon or The Wall properly with out having to make them into one track. BUT I think we all need to look at this as something that we WANT and NOT something we NEED. I guess I need to apologize for the Rant, but somthing about the reaction to Sansafix saying It takes time, rubbed me the wrong way.
@conversionbox wrote:
I do know that patience and waiting isn’t the universal cure. History shows that Sansa will drop Fuze firmware development like a hot brick as soon as they have a replacement model.
Donp What player are you talking about? I would be interested to know. MyIpod refrence is as much about how this issue was treated at CES this year. When asked about gapless on the new players (Touch primarilly) the idea was dismissed, the same reaction was given to folder nav. And in my “rant” I didnt evn consider rockbox (which is how i assume you got gapless on your e200). I definitally went a little nuts but it bugs the life out of me when sombody like Sansafix come on and tries to contribute to the conversation and because he can shed some light on this thing, people assume he is attacking them or they get all up in arms because the response isnt exactly what they want. I want gapless as much as anybody so I can listen to albums like Dark Side of the Moon or The Wall properly with out having to make them into one track. BUT I think we all need to look at this as something that we WANT and NOT something we NEED. I guess I need to apologize for the Rant, but somthing about the reaction to Sansafix saying It takes time, rubbed me the wrong way.
On the ipod, here’s a note from Apple on gapless, includes Iphone and touch: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1797
I don’t really make a point of following Apple/Ipod on a regular basis. I didn’t hear about CES… maybe the ruckus was about gaps in the middle of a track? I’ve heard some complaints about that… maybe too much CPU going to processing the eye candy.
What player I was talking about? My player with the FM transmitter is a Neuros. My other one that will play gapless (vorbis) is a Riovolt (plays mp3/ogg-vorbis/wma on CD-ROM). Yes, the e200 is with rockbox.
@donp wrote:
@conversionbox wrote:
I do know that patience and waiting isn’t the universal cure. History shows that Sansa will drop Fuze firmware development like a hot brick as soon as they have a replacement model.
Donp What player are you talking about? I would be interested to know. MyIpod refrence is as much about how this issue was treated at CES this year. When asked about gapless on the new players (Touch primarilly) the idea was dismissed, the same reaction was given to folder nav. And in my “rant” I didnt evn consider rockbox (which is how i assume you got gapless on your e200). I definitally went a little nuts but it bugs the life out of me when sombody like Sansafix come on and tries to contribute to the conversation and because he can shed some light on this thing, people assume he is attacking them or they get all up in arms because the response isnt exactly what they want. I want gapless as much as anybody so I can listen to albums like Dark Side of the Moon or The Wall properly with out having to make them into one track. BUT I think we all need to look at this as something that we WANT and NOT something we NEED. I guess I need to apologize for the Rant, but somthing about the reaction to Sansafix saying It takes time, rubbed me the wrong way.
On the ipod, here’s a note from Apple on gapless, includes Iphone and touch: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1797
I don’t really make a point of following Apple/Ipod on a regular basis. I didn’t hear about CES… maybe the ruckus was about gaps in the middle of a track? I’ve heard some complaints about that… maybe too much CPU going to processing the eye candy.
What player I was talking about? My player with the FM transmitter is a Neuros. My other one that will play gapless (vorbis) is a Riovolt (plays mp3/ogg-vorbis/wma on CD-ROM). Yes, the e200 is with rockbox.
That may be the issue from CES, I was at another session but my friend was there and told me about it, but he didnt say which gaps. I actually got an e250 as an gift today and am thinking about rockboxing it just to see how I like it.
@conversionbox wrote:
@donp wrote:
@conversionbox wrote:
I do know that patience and waiting isn’t the universal cure. History shows that Sansa will drop Fuze firmware development like a hot brick as soon as they have a replacement model.
Donp What player are you talking about? I would be interested to know. MyIpod refrence is as much about how this issue was treated at CES this year. When asked about gapless on the new players (Touch primarilly) the idea was dismissed, the same reaction was given to folder nav. And in my “rant” I didnt evn consider rockbox (which is how i assume you got gapless on your e200). I definitally went a little nuts but it bugs the life out of me when sombody like Sansafix come on and tries to contribute to the conversation and because he can shed some light on this thing, people assume he is attacking them or they get all up in arms because the response isnt exactly what they want. I want gapless as much as anybody so I can listen to albums like Dark Side of the Moon or The Wall properly with out having to make them into one track. BUT I think we all need to look at this as something that we WANT and NOT something we NEED. I guess I need to apologize for the Rant, but somthing about the reaction to Sansafix saying It takes time, rubbed me the wrong way.
On the ipod, here’s a note from Apple on gapless, includes Iphone and touch: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1797
I don’t really make a point of following Apple/Ipod on a regular basis. I didn’t hear about CES… maybe the ruckus was about gaps in the middle of a track? I’ve heard some complaints about that… maybe too much CPU going to processing the eye candy.
What player I was talking about? My player with the FM transmitter is a Neuros. My other one that will play gapless (vorbis) is a Riovolt (plays mp3/ogg-vorbis/wma on CD-ROM). Yes, the e200 is with rockbox.
That may be the issue from CES, I was at another session but my friend was there and told me about it, but he didnt say which gaps. I actually got an e250 as an gift today and am thinking about rockboxing it just to see how I like it.
If yours is a V2 I don’t think you can…but I’m not 100% sure.
@marvin_martian wrote:
@conversionbox wrote:
<–Snip–>
That may be the issue from CES, I was at another session but my friend was there and told me about it, but he didnt say which gaps. I actually got an e250 as an gift today and am thinking about rockboxing it just to see how I like it.
If yours is a V2 I don’t think you can…but I’m not 100% sure.
CRUD… I forgot about that!
People buy the Fuze for the video playback?
Really?
I bought my Fuze at the end of January and I like it quite a lot. But back then there was some suggestion that gapless playback would be included in the next firmware update. I do feel vaguely duped by its non-appearance, and it seems very likely we’re never gonna get it.
@slanted wrote:
People buy the Fuze for the video playback?
Really?
I bought my Fuze at the end of January and I like it quite a lot. But back then there was some suggestion that gapless playback would be included in the next firmware update. I do feel vaguely duped by its non-appearance, and it seems very likely we’re never gonna get it.
I would guess that for everyperson who has playback issues with the Fuze, there are 4-5 who have no problem with it. I have found a unique use for the videos. I do a lot of work in Adobe Flash. What I can do is create the flash file and then use Flash to make it a mpeg and SMC to add to the player and I can use it to show clients the video.
Gappless has been in the works for a while. We always hope its in the next Firmware, but so far it hasnt been. It will happen eventually I am confident.
The video feature works for me, even though it’s not really practical on a small player. Also, Conversionbox and Sansafix are right, they are trying to work on it, so just say thank you and enough, it’s not like there are any bugs that you are complaining about, just a new feature that was never officially said to be coming.
So appreciate what you’ve got: The cheapest, best-sounding player in the market.
I’m not too sure about gapless playback, but I’m positive that I’ve found a gapless thread.
14 pages, not a gap in sight.
Bob :smileyvery-happy:
