Fuze battery replacement for DIY'ers

Message Edited by TomJensen on 05-03-2010 06:22 PM

IIRC the 3rd lead is for temperature sensing shutdown. If the battery gets too hot it will signal the charger to stop. Larger capacity batteries should be no problem, will only increase charge time.

I’m currently fitting a Clip’s inards into a Samsung YP-T7 housing with a Sansa C200 series battery. It is charging the larger 530mah battery just fine. Still working on lining up button depressors between the housing and board, which has become quite a task.

is the battery overheating a common problem? i’m thinking about buying a fuze but am trying to get info before i make the purchase

Overheating is not a problem with the Fuze. You should buy a Fuze. It is a great deal for the price. Now that micro SDHC cards are so cheap, you can have a cheap 24 GB player by buying an 8 GB Fuze and a 16 GB micro SDHC card. The only real competition for the Fuze is the Clip+, although imo the scroll wheel, larger display, and longer battery life make the Fuze very attractive. On the other hand, the smaller size and built in clip on the Clip+ make the Clip+ better suited for when you are very active. The Fuze is better though if you like to search for individual songs. I have both the Fuze and Clip+. On the Fuze I often search for individual songs, while on the Clip+ I usually let albums play through.

No, overheating isn’t common.  As long as the processor is getting a temperature signal from the battery, you should be fine.  In normal operation, the device will get warm only during the initial charge phase.

Bob  :smiley: 

Message Edited by TomJensen on 05-03-2010 06:22 PM

It is pathetic that people need to resort to this. When will we see decent mp3 players which use an inexpensive, easily swappable battery?

JK98 wrote:
It is pathetic that people need to resort to this. When will we see decent mp3 players which use an inexpensive, easily swappable battery?

I don’t think you will…I would be shocked if one was introduced, to be honest.

@tomjensen wrote:
@14124all

Thanks for the info. Follow-up questions for you: Does the Clip’s battery indicator work correctly w/ the larger capacity? In reading neutron_bob’s comment in another thread, the gauge is reading off the voltage discharge curve. A higher-cap battery would have a flatter curve, so I’m guessing the gauge will drop slower in the middle portion?

Another question is whether the 3rd lead is needed, if its function is solely for thermal sensing. Many LiPo parts have built-in PCM, which in theory should take care of thermal protection at the batt level, even if the Fuze isn’t clued in. Any guess as to what’ll happen in that situation? The reason I ask is that it’s easier to source a LiPo w/ 2 leads (and PCM circuit) than one w/ 3 leads.

Last question is whether the Fuze terminates charging with only thermal sensing, or does it have delta-V sensing as well?

neutron_bob, any input on these?

For the Fuze, I’ll probably stick to a simple mod: Drill a hole in the back shell, and run wires outside. Then tape a 1+ Ah batt to the back of the Fuze, weatherize the connections, and cover it up with a silicon skin. It’ll be a little chubbier. Cellphone batteries are pretty easy to find, and cheap.

I have not run the modded Clip much due to lack of button operation. I did fully charge it to make sure it would do it. I ran maybe 8 hours total on it so far and the battery meter is at one segment off. It does seem it will read on the high end for quite some time, so the calibration will probably be incorrect.

Don’t know the specifics of the 3rd battery lead/control circuit. I would guess that it feeds an on/off binary input and not analog. I did not want to take a chance without the 3rd lead and that is why I used a disassembled C200 battery. I removed the framework to make it an easier fit in the Samsung case.

Use caution! You need to have protection for a shorted or semi-shorted cell. These batteries can get real hot, real fast if charging does not shut down.

I think it’s pathetic anyone would go through all the trouble of replacing a battery in one of the most inexpensive MP3 players on the market. Your battery should last a MINIMUM of 2 years with zero degradation. At that point when it does start to degrade THROW IT OUT AND PICK UP A REFURB ON EBAY for crissakes. Paid $35 for my refurb 4GB. 

Message Edited by TomJensen on 05-03-2010 06:22 PM

What’s pathetic is people who get on a high horse and call things they don’t understand as pathetic.

The main reason DIY’ers do what they do isn’t for the saving of a few bucks. Indeed, most DIY jobs will end up costing more money than the simple buying of a new part, since normally you’ll need to buy the necessary equipment. DIY is for the fun, and for the knowledge and experience gained in doing it. DIYer’s are the type who take the initiative to solve a problem, and don’t like sitting on their behinds, moaning and groaning, and hoping some others will take pity and help to spoonfeed them a solution.

Open your eyes, it’s a pretty big world with all kinds of people.

@peregrine wrote:
I think it’s pathetic anyone would go through all the trouble of replacing a battery in one of the most inexpensive MP3 players on the market. Your battery should last a MINIMUM of 2 years with zero degradation. At that point when it does start to degrade THROW IT OUT AND PICK UP A REFURB ON EBAY for crissakes. Paid $35 for my refurb 4GB. 

For most people’s needs you are correct. Some of us like to tinker with things. We are the guys who built minibikes and go carts as kids, hot rod cars and chopper bikes later in life. We like to educate ourselves on how things work and build things that do not exist. Some of us are not into video games and like to build things in their spare time. It’s only a hobby - to each their own.

@tomjensen wrote:
Agree on the caution. Would not want a fireball and have my place burned down. But regulated cells are in common use for devices w/ no circuit regulation, so I’m curious how the Fuze would handle it. Hopefully, one of the “folks that know” will share some of their knowledge on how the Fuze charging process works.

Did some browsing on LiPo, and looks like it’s a big thing with the RC crowd. If I ever do decide to go off rails, I’ll certainly do more reading and get more input on the process.

Danger of LiPo fires:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719116

LiPo forum (one of many sites):
http://www.rcgroups.com/batteries-and-chargers-129/

Good route to take! Those RC guys DIY everything! Know a guy who was well into it (and all kinds of other tinkering), he can weld magnesium to cardboard with aluminum rod - LOL. Also, good thoughts on the safety research before jumping off the cliff!

Well, us nerds and techies have managed to inherit the Earth. 

 

Pinky: "Gee, Brain, what do you want to do tonight?"
The Brain: “The same thing we do every night, Pinky—try to take over the world!”

 

Replace a battery you say?  No problem, we shall disembowel the unit and reconnect its energy source, thereby retaining its “Chi.”

And it’s the Chi that’s the key here.  Not only does this ol’ unit have sentimental value, it also has a certain “sound” which another unit may not be able to duplicate.  

 

[after he brings the creature to life]

Dr. Frankenstein:  Alive!  It’s alive! It’s alive!

ggin1

 

 

Message Edited by ggin1 on 02-10-2010 11:47 AM

"I think it’s pathetic anyone would go through all the trouble of replacing a battery in one of the most inexpensive MP3 players on the market. Your battery should last a MINIMUM of 2 years with zero degradation. At that point when it does start to degrade THROW IT OUT AND PICK UP A REFURB ON EBAY for crissakes. Paid $35 for my refurb 4GB. "

Most people who replace the battery in a Fuze on their own do it for the challenge. some try to put in a higher capacity battery than 550 mah. The battery in the Fuze can be damaged by very cold weather. While it may take over 2 years for most Fuze owners to have a battery that is totally dead, with frequent use many will notice a decrease in run time before 2 years are up.

Doing it for fun I totally understand. :wink: