In a previous post I noted that the card slot of my Fuze is no longer usable, crashing the unit.
Since I never really cared about video on the Fuze, I got a Clip + after reading widely that the Clip has the same excellent sound as the Fuze.
Well, I don’t know about the Clip, but the Clip + certainly does not. It’s not even close.
It sounds tinny and cramped compared to the Fuze (playing the same songs at the same volume through the same headphones). I played with the EQ settings (something I never needed to bother with on the Fuze) and tried different kinds of music. Again and again, the same problem: vocals way up front, bass muffled, upper register less than crisp. Like listening to the music in a closet rather than an open space.
For a little while I thought about how tiny and convenient and capacious the Clip + is. But then I listened to it again alongside the Fuze. Just awful and unmusical. Maybe if you were riding a motorcycle you wouldn’t notice the difference.
I sent it back, swallowing the shipping and restocking fee. And I ordered another Fuze. Now I hope that if it turns out to be a v2 rather than a v1, that it still sounds as good. Looks like Sansa doesn’t care about sound quality any more.
This was a huge disappointment. And it makes me seriously distrust all the reviewers who parroted what good sound the Clip + was supposed to have.
Be good to your Fuze–the next Sansa product might sound a lot worse.
Which headphones were you using? The Clip+ has less power than the Fuze, and is a bit warmer sounding than the Clip or Fuze. Don’t use the equilizer on the Clip+. It will make things worse. For best results, don’t use headphones over 32 ohms with the Clip+.
Shure E4c. 29 ohm impedance. I was careful to use the same volume for my comparison. And since I’m using those phones, it matters to me how it sounds through those phones. I’m not going to get lesser headphones to compensate for an inferior player.
I didn’t find it warmer. I found it more metallic and claustrophobic, like Bono was singing through a megaphone.
I didn’t expect much from the various EQ, and didn’t get much, but it was worth a try.
In my opinion–and I’m pretty serious about things like this–it’s just a nosedive in sound quality. The 4GB Fuze is about the same price as the 8GB Clip +, and that is a better bargain by far–assuming SanDisk didn’t ruin the Fuze in the v2 without the reviewers paying attention.
Just have to see what arrives in the mail. I really wanted to like the Clip +, the perfect capabilities and size for me, which is probably why I’m so disgusted instead.
My first Sansa was an E260 I got after playing it side by side with a Nano–and sound quality was hugely better on the E260, not to mention recording, card slot, etc.
Now it seems SanDisk has realized the Apple lesson–make it cute and people won’t care about sound quality.
Message Edited by whatchamacallit on 12-18-2009 03:17 PM
Have you considered the possibility that you may have a defective Clip+? I have never heard (nor read) of anyone else describing the SQ as poorly as you seem to be experiencing. In fact, this is the first.
My Clip+ sounds every bit as good as my Fuze, and a little bit better than my ‘go-to’ e280v2 player. And it sounds awesome; although I do have to play with the EQ a bit whereas I leave it flat on the Clip+.
Have you considered the possibility that you may have a defective Clip+? I have never heard (nor read) of anyone else describing the SQ as poorly as you seem to be experiencing. In fact, this is the first.
My Clip+ sounds every bit as good as my Fuze, and a little bit better than my ‘go-to’ e280v2 player. And it sounds awesome; although I do have to play with the EQ a bit whereas I leave it flat on the Clip+.
Agreed 100%. The Clip+ isn’t perfect, but I certainly cannot fault it’s sound quality, which also on my unit, is top notch.
Well, I sent it back and I’m not willing to test another. I think that’s the way it’s supposed to sound. It’s a very distinct sound signature, one that I could easily recognize between the two units, one I’ve heard before. Sounds like it was designed by (no highs no lows, must be a) Bose.
The unit played at full volume, no static, no missing channel, no problem playing any files, navigated fine, etc. No software problems with loading, formatting, etc. If it were physically defective it would certainly have shown some other symptoms besides an exaggerated midrange and a collapsed soundstage.
Really, folks, play something on your Fuze and something on your Clip +, side by side in quick succession, through good phones, and tell me there’s no decline. I really wanted the Clip + to be my next player (and a Christmas present for someone wonderful, who also thought it sounded bad). It was not to be.
Well, I sent it back and I’m not willing to test another. I think that’s the way it’s supposed to sound. It’s a very distinct sound signature, one that I could easily recognize between the two units, one I’ve heard before. Sounds like it was designed by (no highs no lows, must be a) Bose.
The unit played at full volume, no static, no missing channel, no problem playing any files, navigated fine, etc. No software problems with loading, formatting, etc. If it were physically defective it would certainly have shown some other symptoms besides an exaggerated midrange and a collapsed soundstage.
Really, folks, play something on your Fuze and something on your Clip +, side by side in quick succession, through good phones, and tell me there’s no decline. I really wanted the Clip + to be my next player (and a Christmas present for someone wonderful, who also thought it sounded bad). It was not to be.
Are you sure the headphone plug was all the way in? On my Fuze, I first didn’t have the plug all the way in, and the sound was bad. After a while I realized the plug wasn’t all the way in, and it needed a bit of force to go all the way in. After a while the jack wasn’t so tight. If the problem wasn’t a tight jack, then you might have had a defective player.
I’ve had a Fuze since mid-2008. I fell for the headphone-jack problem in my early days with the Fuze and found the solution here, so I am quite familiar with it.
This didn’t “skip” or play the difference between channels or get staticky or show any other headphone jack symptoms. It did re-equalize the nice, spacious, balanced Fuze sound toward something with a midrange bump and rolloff at high and low. That is not what you get when the headphone jack isn’t working. It wasn’t mono, and it was full-spectum–just a much less flat full-spectrum than I could hear on the Fuze.
Sorry to be stubborn about this, but I spent more than an hour with the thing hoping I could trouble-shoot my way out of the inferior sound. Pushing the plug in, rotating it, making sure the connection was good, doing a lot of A-B with the Fuze (which would also be un-tightening any headphone jack problem).
I really don’t think the DAC and codecs in that particular Clip + were anything but the standard package. A defective player would have sounded much worse–this just sounded tweaked toward choices I did not like. Those Shure IEMs pick up a lot of detail. Not all of it was enjoyable.
Maybe a headphone amp would have helped–but then what’s the point of having a tiny little Clip + ?
I think SanDisk has switched from “very good” to “good enough” on this player.
Message Edited by whatchamacallit on 12-18-2009 04:28 PM
I’ve had a Fuze since mid-2008. I fell for the headphone-jack problem in my early days with the Fuze and found the solution here, so I am quite familiar with it.
This didn’t “skip” or play the difference between channels or get staticky or show any other headphone jack symptoms. It did re-equalize the nice, spacious, balanced Fuze sound toward something with a midrange bump and rolloff at high and low. That is not what you get when the headphone jack isn’t working. It wasn’t mono, and it was full-spectum–just a much less flat full-spectrum than I could hear on the Fuze.
Sorry to be stubborn about this, but I spent more than an hour with the thing hoping I could trouble-shoot my way out of the inferior sound. Pushing the plug in, rotating it, making sure the connection was good, doing a lot of A-B with the Fuze (which would also be un-tightening any headphone jack problem).
I really don’t think the DAC and codecs in that particular Clip + were anything but the standard package. A defective player would have sounded much worse–this just sounded tweaked toward choices I did not like. Those Shure IEMs pick up a lot of detail. Not all of it was enjoyable.
Maybe a headphone amp would have helped–but then what’s the point of having a tiny little Clip + ?
I think SanDisk has switched from “very good” to “good enough” on this player.
Message Edited by whatchamacallit on 12-18-2009 04:28 PM
I think you are wrong. For whatever reason, I don’t believe the sound signature you are getting with your clip+ is normal. Mine sounds great; and it’s not because I am a Sandisk fan boi. I have players by countless other manufacturers and can compare directly with each other. While my Clip+ may not be the best in regards to sound quality of all the players I own; it’s no slouch either.
If you are unwilling to try another clip+, there isn’t much more we can do here…Just enjoy your fuze.
I still say your results are not normal. And the headphones I often use with my Sansa products? The Grado PS 1000; so it’s not a case where I’m using inferior headphones.
:smileyvery-happy:Indeed, old boy! GB has some good toys for work that make little differences easier to hear. My wife knows how much they cost, unfortunately. I was going to tell her that they’re a basic model, hence the wooden frame.
I must agree, the Clip+ sounds very good, stacked against the Clip , the Fuze , and the e200v2. Your device might have something unique going on there. Perhaps you can try another device?
Granted, under load, the wee battery of the Clip+ is the smallest of the group, but I find the sound to be quite pleasant, EQ on or off.
I did notice the sound of the Clip+ is less bright than on the Clip, and also a bit less bright than the Fuze, although the Fuze does seem a bit less bright than the Clip. Imo the Clip was a bit too bright though. The anythingbutipod review of the Clip+ notes the difference. Perhaps of the 3 the Fuze sounds the best, although imo the differences aren’t huge. It also seems to have more headroom than the Clip or Clip+.
At the end of the food chain, one has to drive those wee earbuds. That means varying the current to a pair of electromagnets, a funky proposition in any book.
With IEMs, it’s a simpler task, as they’re pretty efficient, and the wee inductors don’t cause too much trouble. With headphones, well, it gets a bit tougher.
When listening at “happier volumes”, the e200v2 is my favorite. I drive the “cans” directly with it, and the machine has a sufficient power supply on board. This is where the Clip+ falls short, as physics can be cruel indeed. The Clip+ can sound a wee bit amemic in comparison, but not overly so.
I definitely wouldn’t say that the sound of the Clip+ is colored in any way, comparing the Sansas head-to-head; if you’re hearing a large discrepancy I’d venture that the device itself may have an issue. I’ve played just about anything on the wee guy, and it’s surprisingly good.
But for most listening situations, I really like the Clip+.
Bob :smileyvery-happy:
Message Edited by neutron_bob on 12-18-2009 07:27 PM
Fuze_GB, feel free to send me those Grados to continue my testing Maybe I’ll send them back someday…
They’re 32 ohm impedance, and have a lot more speaker area to drive than my Shure IEMs. So I’m surprised they don’t show the lower power of the Clip +.
Hmmm… ABI says “warmer” and invokes the mighty Cowon…I don’t know. I only know what I heard. Brightness was not the main problem–the midrange bump and the flattened soundstage were. I guess it’s too bad they didn’t just leave the Clip alone and add the microSD slot.
Fuze_GB, feel free to send me those Grados to continue my testing Maybe I’ll send them back someday…
They’re 32 ohm impedance, and have a lot more speaker area to drive than my Shure IEMs. So I’m surprised they don’t show the lower power of the Clip +.
Hmmm… ABI says “warmer” and invokes the mighty Cowon…I don’t know. I only know what I heard. Brightness was not the main problem–the midrange bump and the flattened soundstage were. I guess it’s too bad they didn’t just leave the Clip alone and add the microSD slot.
Let your ears be the judge. The player only has to please you, not the rest of us. If you don’t like the sound signature of the Clip+ your choices are pretty straightforward…Try another unit, or just move on to another player.
This is my own personal bias, but I would never trust anything that I read on ABI; they are the bottom feeder of all sites that talk about personal media players. Don’t trust them, don’t trust us…trust your own ears!
I hope you find a player that you will enjoy!
BTW: I like your screen name. It recalls found memories of my youth, when my father and I built our own hi-fi (we didn’t have stereo back then!) and one of the first albums we played was “Whatchamacallit, Esquivel” by Juan Garcia Esquivel and his band…
Well it must have been the space-age bachelor pad music.
I noticed I still have fuzea.bin for 1.02.22 on my computer. On a whim, I put that on instead of 1.02.26. And now I have my card slot back on the Fuze!
Card slot (1.02.22) or folder browsing (1.02.26)? No contest.
EDIT: OK, curiouser and curiouser. Out of geekness, I thought I’d try throwing 1.02.26 on again. It froze on “Firmware upgrade in progress.” And stayed frozen through resets, etc. After looking through the forums, I gave up and decided to Format. And now I have 1.02.26 and a working card slot, no longer frozen on Refreshing Database with the card inserted (the original problem).
Anyway, it’s working. Cross your fingers. Someone’s probably getting that other Fuze I ordered for Xmas.
Message Edited by whatchamacallit on 12-19-2009 03:41 PM
Maybe I’ll send them back someday… 