AA battery powered mp3 player?

JK98 wrote:
I started this thread more than a year a half ago, and since then we have still not seen any new AA battery powered players, or even any players with an easily swappable lithium based battery. UGH!

I also very much want a no-frills AA battery powered mp3 player.  It’s an absolute no-brainer for me.  I like to take music on hiking trips, and Lithium Ion batteries can’t maintain a charge at all in cool to cold weather.

The last time I took one out with me, it lasted about 5 days before dying - along with my lithium ion powered camera - and even though I had a recharge pack with me, the Lithium Ion just couldn’t be revived effectively til I got back to the city.  Ask any nature photographer with lithium ion powered cameras, they’ll tell you about strapping batteries to their body to keep them warm enough to maintain a charge.  I’m not talking subzero temps even, but late summer in the high Sierra. 

I’ve since bought a AA battery powered camera, but can’t find a high capacity mp3 player to match.  I just want a player to play music, nothing more.  I don’t need a fancy color display or video.  But an AM radio would be a great addition to tune into weather reports. 

battery is fine. I would prefer triple AAA to AA though, much lighter. And one can always bring a couple of spare AAA’s for extended battery life (e.g. few days hike), instead of AA or the internal integrated battery. AAA clip-on would be also nice.

The highest capacity AA nimh batteries hold around 3x the power of the highest capacity AAA nimh batteries.

doesn’t matter, the AAA’s last long enough and you can always bring some spare ones if you can’t recharge on a few-day’s-hike (that’s also when a clip-on battery pack would come in handy)

BUT

for every-day use, there is no sense in unnecessarily increasing the player’s weight.

The best and longest lasting batteries on the market are the eneloop batteries by Sanyo.

AA: 2000 mAh, 27 grams
AAA: 800 mAh, 12 grams

If you divide 800mAh by 12 and multiply by 27, you get 1800mAh , so taking into account its size, the AAA has only a little less performance, but for every-day use it saves more than half of the battery weight.

Message Edited by Chris_Davideck on 07-09-2010 08:51 AM

@chris_davideck wrote:

for every-day use, there is no sense in unnecessarily increasing the player’s weight.
>blockquote>

A judgement call. One could just as well say no sense in reducing the play time by more than half just for a few grams. Plus that gives compatibility with a lot of other gadgets that use AA batteries like cameras, small flashlights, etc.

The best and longest lasting batteries on the market are the eneloop batteries by Sanyo.

AA: 2000 mAh, 27 grams
AAA: 800 mAh, 12 grams

3000 mah for standard NiMH are easy to find. For low self discharge ones, the best are around 2400 mah.

“The best and longest lasting batteries on the market are the eneloop batteries by Sanyo. AA: 2000 mAh, 27 grams AAA: 800 mAh, 12 grams”

Sanyo makes 2700 mah AA nimh rechargeable batteries and 1000 mah AAA nimh rechargeable batteries. While other manufacturers claim higher capacities, I have not seen any other nimh batteries that have played longer in tests. For AA nimh batteries, major manufacturers only make them up to 2900 mah. The test results I have seen show the 2700 mah Sanyo batteries beating the 2900 mah batteries of other makers.

The low discharge rate nimh batteries are  better suited for infrequently used devices. For frequently used items, the regular higher capacity nimh batteries are much better. The low discharge nimh batteries also need to be charged slower than standard nimh batteries(so no charging of the low discharge ones in an hour or less, and perhaps not even in under 2 hours?). The low discharge ones are also worse at putting out higher power levels(ie. when used in the the Tekkeon mp1550 to charge an mp3 player, they took longer than traditional nimh batteries).

As for the AAA vs AA argument, I would prefer AA, as for example run time might be 40 hours with AA or 15 hours with AAA. While spares can be carried with each, for some people it might mean carrying 2 or more spares when using AAA batteries. Most cargers charge up to 4 batteries at a time, and with AAA batteries, around 11 might be needed to be equivalent to 4 AA. The 11 batteries would mean 3 charge charge cycles for most people, vs just one charge cycle for the AA batteries.

@donp: a common fallacy. nominal mAh is not 1:1 equivalent to battery life in practice. Also see JK98’s comment for that matter.

Besides, you don’t get the point. There is NO reduced play time, because you can always bring spare AAA’s if you need >15 hours non-stop playback and don’t have a recharge possibility BUT on the other hand you ALWAYS carry excess weight with an AA when a single AAA (15 hours) would suffice!

In the end the AAA offers more flexibility and you get the best of both worlds: lighter player for daily usage with a single AAA and unlimited playback time for hikes/trips by bringing spare AAA’s.

http://www.rechargeable-battery-review.com/consumer-batteries/aa-battery-tests/aa-nimh-battery-performance.html

AA is obviously the more cost effective option, since AA nimh batteries hold almost triple the power of AAA ones, yet are very close in cost. That makes AA batteries have only around 1/3 the cost per mah of AAA batteries.

Doesn’t really matter in my opinion, as most users probably have other AAA devices anyway, so they would use their batteries and can re-use the SansaClip’s AAAs in those devices, too.

And for mp3 players the cost effectiveness for batteries takes a second place to the batteries’ weight. If it weren’t so, you could use your car batteries for your Sansa Clip, since they are a hundred times more cost effective.

I am not saying your arguments are not valid per se, JK98, I was just making a case for AAA batteries and think they have the better arguments (but so do you probably for AAs). After all, I think we can both agree that the most important thing would be to *have* any kind of replaceable battery at all, and maybe let’s leave it at that (until such point where SanDisk really starts to think of implementing this feature).

No further comments?

Bored again, JK?

@jk98 wrote:
No further comments?

Bored again, JK?

You’re going to hurt yourself bumping your own threads this way.

@jk98 wrote:
No further comments?

Nope–everything that needs saying has been said.   :wink:

I have strong opinions on this subject and agree.  It is called being STANDARDS (even if defacto) based.

Other than a cell phone and Bluetooth earpiece, both chargeable using a “standard” micro USB plug for charging, everything else I own uses AA/AAA batteries, including my MP3 player.  I also have an AA powered micro USB “emergency” charger for these critical microUSB charged devices.

First, I travel enough that I quickly tire from having to locate, bring, and keep track of a large number of custom cables, custom chargers, and other junk to fill my briefcase and/or backpack that end up using considerably more space than the product they service.  Security goes crosseyed when they see a container full of wires and it’s a mess and a nuisance if one of them should “break”  or get lost and have to be replaced, usually at high cost and hard to find from a vendor.  Sometimes I have a lot of equipment with me, and almost all use AA or AAA batteries, and fewer is better.

I use Eneloop or Duracell 3-year precharged 2000mAH NiMh AA / AAA batteries and two smart chargers ($15 ea) capable of charging 1/2/3/4 batteries at a time.  A smart charger means each battery is monitored individually to provide optimum charge and I don’t have to worry about it.  This combination means I can recharge up to 8 batteries overnight.  When I’m on a trip, I usually only have 5 minutes before bed, and I just want to dump all the batteries on the bed and move them to chargers so they’ll be ready to go when I get up and am trying to run out the door.  I may be using GPS, camera, MP3 player, noise cancelling headphones, walkie-talkies, any number of consumer devices that use AA or AAA batteries (this is a purchase decision for me).

I also empty my unused devices of batteries before storing for periods of non-use.  This means I don’t have to worry about battery storage as those stay out and are used where needed.

I prefer 110V powered devices, like chargers, with folding or retracting 110V plugs.  This means no wires to tangle and no protruding 110V plug to tear up the interior of my briefcase or punch holes in other nearby devices.  I prefer battery power to 110V plugs because then I don’t have to locate a large number of outlets in a hotel room or guest house.  I also carry a 12VDC/110VAC inverter to charge all my batteries on long vehicle trips in vehicles with 12V systems.  (some of the airplanes I fly are 24V which is unusable with my equipment)

On the subject of SD cards; my camera and computer can both accept standard size SDHC cards, why shouldn’t my MP3 player, so I can easily move music to a card for the player?  microSD is okay and would make sense from a “standards” point of view, as long as it has an adapter to fit in my standard sized SD card reader/writer.  An adapter is another thing to lose, but are available and inexpensive enough as long as conversion is between two standard sizes; i.e. Standard SD to MicroSD (I already have a few of these laying around so I can use microSD cards in my larger equipment.  MicroSD cards are also typically slower (Class 2) type cards instead of Class 6 or higher as the large cards.  MicroSD is also usually more expensive than standard SD size cards.

I have converted all my CD’s to MP3, and have a 100GB collection of high quality MP3 files.

Asking why an MP3 player should use AA or AAA batteries is as much a no brainer to me as asking why I would want an MP3 player as opposed to a device that can only play OGG sound files, which I’d have to convert from my MP3 collection before I can use.  If you don’t get it, you never will.  My life isn’t MP3 player centric.  If a device is inconvenient in any way, it gets tossed in the garbage or given away to one of the “kids” who have time to play and fiddle with the device.  I won’t willingly buy a device that doesn’t conform to existing standards in all aspects of it’s usage, not just MP3 files.

I agree with everything you say–standards and interchangability are great.

Having said that, most DAPs do not use AA or AAA batteries, in large part, seemingly, due to form factor issues.  It would be nice if there was a standard “tiny”-sized rechargeable battery that would fit into the form factor of a Clip-sized device, that users generally could put in and take out.

As this topic started… I don’t care if the form factor is a little larger to accommodate a larger “standard” battery(s).  Pretty, sex appeal, and credit card form factor isn’t what I’m after for reasons stated earlier by others and me.

Not to be -too- insensitive:smiley:, I also reject the idea of a new “smaller” standard battery.  Such an “improvement” would require an update of all supporting battery infrastructure… i.e. replace chargers, storage containers, and add another battery that can’t be used in anything else.   It also will mean keeping track of yet another battery size/capacity which can’t be used by existing 1,2V-1.5V AA/AAA powered devices (hey, I just got rid of my 9V batteries).  i.e. what you are proposing is another custom battery be accepted as “standard” with only a small space savings payoff for a large amount of added inconvenience to move from two “standard” sizes to “three”, a 50% gain in entropy.  Besides, other “standards” exist which I also reject, such as CR123 Lithium batteries, $7 watch batteries, and 3V AA/AAA Lithium batteries.

The arguments I’m using are the reason lots of “blood” gets spilled when developing standards and arguing product features during development.  Engineering wars are created over this stuff…

There are plenty of high efficiency, small real estate, off the shelf “step-up” boost converters to allow an MP3 player design to use one or two standard batteries.  No need for more form factors, and no excuse for not offering a standards based device for those of us who will vote with our money to get one.

Remember, what’s being proposed isn’t intended to “replace” existing solutions, it is another product line for people with different needs.  The sexy products currently available satisfy a certain market, and I expect these to stay and be improved, in addition to what’s being proposed here.

Peace friend.

The 18650 lion rechargeable battery is becoming a new standard for LED flashlights. While it is around It is around double the volume of a AA battery, it holds around triple the power of a AA nimh battery. The 18650 battery could be used in a larger, high capacity, mp3/ video player that still fits in a shirt pocket. Consider that the 18650 battery can be easily swappable, and that it holds around 5x the power of the Fuze battery. One can buy 18650 batteries on the net for under $5 each, and a charger that charges one or two at a time is under $10 on the net.

Those batteries are physically gigantic compared to the ones in modern mp3 players.  Theres no market for devices large enough to house batteries that big.  

IMO your best bet is to buy or make a battery pack and clip it onto a normal mp3 player.  

And again, I’d have to drag along yet another charger to handle the 18650, which currently won’t work in any of my other devices.  I’d rather carry two more 2000mAH NiMh batteries and replace once during use than have to carry, keep track of, and find another wall outlet for, yet another charger.  Again, any changes suggested to battery technology for increased capacity or smaller form factor result is huge inconvenience to a traveler for all the supporting junk for that different battery.  Until I can buy another smart charger to support this additional battery type, I won’t accept yet another battery requiring me to concede to carrying yet another “not interchangeable” part.  I’d rather wait until something like the 18650 is so ubiquitous that it replaces my current AA/AAA Precharged NiMh batteries.  i.e. probably not for at least another decade.  Keep track of the bigger picture when proposing these changes.

My solution so far has been to travel without an MP3/FM radio player.  The added inconvenience of supporting current devices for power and connectivity greatly outweighs their usefulness.

Ideally this MP3 device would require no wires.  It should run off an AA or AAA NiMh battery, and connect with a built in USB, Bluetooth, or Wi-Fi to sources of content.  That connection to my computer should look like an SD card to my Linux/Mac/Windows OS.  I’m tired of devices that require a shim to Microsoft Windows Media Players to “manage” what’s on the player.  Or worse, require custom software to update content.

So far, designers of these devices have been clueless to my needs.  This is just an MP3 player guys, not magic.  You use a power source and some electronics to convert compressed binary images into desired sound for a standard headset or external speakers.  You also need an easy way to find and present which sound image to convert.  That’s all this thing does, and I want it to do it efficiently and conveniently.  Failure of current offerings to do these simple things is why I won’t mess with current offerings.