04-04-2008 07:02 PM
I purchased the Sansa View due to it's support for MSC mode (not knowing playlists would not work). I prefer MSC over MTP due to the freedom to use prefered software, and to avoid vendor and OR lock-in.
My first MP3 player (Rio 600) used a proprietary protocol/software and the stupid thing was essentially useless within a year due to lack of support for Windows XP. I don't want this to happen to me again.
In summary, MTP = Bad, MSC = Good.
04-07-2008 05:29 AM
thats not true, you can still drag and drop with MTP mode. And you can user whatever software you want, just like msc mode.
04-07-2008 08:17 PM
I'm still confused, where is "MSC supported" listed....
Look people, as stated by the others, MSC is a recovery function right now.. maybe they'll add MSC as a GUI selection in the future, if so.. then it WILL be supported then. If you're using forced MSC mode, it's not 100% to work like supported MSC mode like on the Clip, Fuze, E200, C200, E200V2... (I could keep going but.. i don't wanna). My playlists have never had a problem transferring in MTP mode..ever (and there's a lot of them). Also MTP mode doesn't lock you in to a specific software.. the View works with WMP, Real Player, Rhapsody, Napster, Music Match, Overdrive audio, Audible, Drag and drop (again another list i could go on with)...
Having trouble with video transfer for your View? Try using the Any Video Converter (yes that's the name). It can be downloaded at www.any-video-converter.com (pick the free one) It's easy to use, just make it a .mp4
04-08-2008 04:20 PM
Those are all 'services' I do not wish to use. Plain and simple. I want to drag my music (MP3) and play. I do not want to be bound to a Windows machine, as Linux/MAC only supports MTP.
How hard can it possibly be to read a m3u text file and load the song(s)?
To be fair, what are the restrictions of MTP mode? Can I do everything in MTP that I can in MSC? Is there anything in MSC that I can do that cannot be done in MTP mode?
04-08-2008 09:36 PM
First of all I must say that I am quite pleased with the View generally and that comes from a Linux user.
Second I am a bit disappointed that playlists in MSC do not work, it was something I actually expected to work but probably because of my lack of knowledge of how playlists can be handled differently I was wrong.
I think it boils down to that the View was designed with WMP and MTP in mind.
I knew of the MSC mode and how to get there before I bought the View so I knw I could get my files on it if MTP would fail.
Myself and others using exclusively Linux do face problems regarding that and the biggest problem is playlists.
By far bigger for me than the casual lockups when fast forwarding videos e.g.
If I find a way to get the View properly working in MTP under Linux with every program that should support MTP and have proper playlists then it would be ok for me.
I could transfer some songs via the libmtp on the commandline but did not investigate further much to maybe get a script started and my View is not detected consistently with libmtp either.
I know how it is with feature requests and my guess is that 90% of the users do not bother and just use WMP. Of the rest of the 10% maybe at most 10% (so overall 1%) use Linux exclusively to face such a problem which is unfortunately unlikely to warrant a large enough business case for Sandisk to change something in the immediate future. Rockbox won't be an option for the time being either. So I guess I will continue my try and error with MTP to get something working.
What could help my understanding though is if someone who usually uses MTP mode could connect via MSC and look for the file structure and if there is any sign of playlists there somewhere. I noticed that myMTP transferred files did go into some special folders with no proper naming and the ID3 tags got not recognized by the View either but that may all be due to the fact of quickly using the comandline for libmtp.
04-08-2008 09:41 PM
Yes every software that supports MTP out of the box.
Not everyone uses Windows though.
Every recent file transfer program can copy to a removeable drive though.
So your statement is not true. I fI had a working MTP solution on my Linux/Gnome based system I would use it.
I am working on it though.
(Yes I know for what OS and program the View is designed for but that is not the point)
04-09-2008 04:12 AM
Um, yes it is.
It says on the box what it does support, as a consumer, I cant be upset that it doesn't work on a mac or a linux, because that doesn't meet the system req.
I understand that as a consumer we can be "disappointed" by it, sure. I agree with that.
04-09-2008 07:49 AM
The point is that MP3 players are a dime a dozen these days. What makes one special is how each handle their product with the public and taking that extra step to get the next customer and keep the existing customer happy. Granted that none of the MSC was presented as a feature, but there is enough noise being presented in the forum to warrant a possible solution (or at least and answer of 'this will never happen').
We can argue all day about facts. Sort of like law vs justice.
Perhaps Sansa (MP3) just prefers getting by and not taking that extra step.
04-09-2008 09:53 AM
I returned mine for that reason. If MSC was added just as an afterthought, the Sansa View is not for me.
I wanted directory navigation - not available. No way to access my favourites quickly. :-(
Navigation with albums - just barely usable: You only see the album, not the artist. What do you do with several "Best of" or "Greatest Hits" albums? Did nobody ever use that?
Navigation with song titles - same problem, even less usable.
Navigation with playlists - doesn't work in MSC mode. Even playlists created in MPT don't seem to be able to use songs copied in MSC mode. (I tried that with low-level command line tools from the Linux libmtp package).
The hardware is great, but the firmware just doesn't cut it.
04-09-2008 06:38 PM
What it says on the box is actually not at all related to what i quoted from your post (which was actually your complete post) and to what your answer referred to (being independent from certain software).
So my point is that it is simply not true that you can use whatever software you want to use mtp mode unless that software works with mtp. i would even say you cannot use whatever software for msc either, so basically my point is to avoid generalizations especially when it is obvious that they do not hold.
I think I made it quite clear in my first post that I don't blame Sandisk for not supporting MSC properly, it was a design choice they made and whether I think if that was a good one or not is a moot point and won't get anyone anywhere .
My goal is now to get as much of the View as possible while not using Windows without relying on Sandisk to make changes and I say that without holding any grudges because I know how fast paced this business is and that there is surely little chance that features that go against the initial design will be introduced in a later stage.
I did a fair bit of testing regarding supported video formats on the View and how to use ffmpeg and mplayer/mencoder to generate these files.
My goal is to provide linux users of the View with as much information as possible because I think the View is a hard to beat when you compare what you get for the price.
I am quite at a loss though with the playlists and instead of reading through lipmtp's sourcecode (which is actually a little bit too time consuming) I hope to find other Linux users here (or on other forums related to the View), to make playlists work, no matter whether it has to be MTP or MSC. Even though the View was not designed for other OS than windows I doubt that pursuing that is against what Sandisk wants.