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SanDisk User
Posts: 35
Registered: ‎10-07-2008

Sansa Fuze and Clip need to support 24-bit FLAC

[ Edited ]

The lack of support for 24-bit FLAC by both the Sansa Fuze and Clip has been brought up before in this forum.

 

24-bit FLAC is rapdily becoming the standard for audiophile digtal music. In the last year, online stores have opened up that sell 24-bit FLAC (e.g., HDTracks.com), and of course the Beatles have released most of their catalog in 24-bit FLAC.

 

And the sound quality is amazing--I've been listening audiophile vinyls ripped on 24-bit FLAC, and it really captures the essence of the music that gets lost in 16-bit. For those who argue that the human ear can't tell the difference, I say 'phooey'. Right now I'm listening to the 24-bit version of Garcia/Grisman "The Pizza Tapes", converted directly from the master, and there is no way anyone can see there's no difference in sound quality between this and the 16-bit version.

 

I'm very frustrated that I can't play these tracks on my Fuze. And I don't want to downconvert...that defeats the whole purpose.

I would think it would be in Sandisk's best interests to make this work, for two reasons:

 

1. Sell more Fuze's and Clips--capture the growing audiophile market

2. Sell more SD cards--a 16 GB card can only hold about 12 albums ripped to 24-bit/96 KHZ. 

 

Anyway, Sandisk, I hope you're listening and upgrade your Fuzes and Clips to support this rapidly-expanding format. And if that's not possible, maybe you need a new portable player...call it 'Vinyl'.

 

 

 

Message Edited by databass on 06-04-2010 09:29 AM
Message Edited by databass on 06-04-2010 09:30 AM
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SanDisk Guru
Posts: 4,898
Registered: ‎11-17-2008

Re: Sansa Fuze and Clip need to support 24-bit FLAC

I can't believe I am saying this, but are you saying you could ABX the 24 vs. 16? Because most of us can't even ABX .flac from LAME V0 or 320.
iPod Touch 5G 32GB, Touch 4G 32GB, Clip Sport 8GB.
Rockbox-> Clip Zip 4GB, iPod Nano 2G 4GB, iPod 5.5G 80GB
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SanDisk Professor
Posts: 507
Registered: ‎04-24-2008

Re: Sansa Fuze and Clip need to support 24-bit FLAC


@Marvin_Martian wrote:
I can't believe I am saying this, but are you saying you could ABX the 24 vs. 16? Because most of us can't even ABX .flac from LAME V0 or 320.

no chance in hell...

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SanDisk Guru
Posts: 4,898
Registered: ‎11-17-2008

Re: Sansa Fuze and Clip need to support 24-bit FLAC


summerlove wrote:

@Marvin_Martian wrote:
I can't believe I am saying this, but are you saying you could ABX the 24 vs. 16? Because most of us can't even ABX .flac from LAME V0 or 320.

no chance in hell...


I think you're right. The OP's example of the Beatles remasters being released in 24-bit .flac and being so much better doesn't fly with me, because even the CD remasters (which are 16 bit) are noticeably better than the older CD's.....I've compared some of then back to back.

iPod Touch 5G 32GB, Touch 4G 32GB, Clip Sport 8GB.
Rockbox-> Clip Zip 4GB, iPod Nano 2G 4GB, iPod 5.5G 80GB
2012 Nexus 7 32GB, Asus MeMoPad 8 16+64GB, LG Optimus G Pro, Nokia Lumia 900, Nokia Lumia 520

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SanDisk User
Posts: 57
Registered: ‎03-26-2009

Re: Sansa Fuze and Clip need to support 24-bit FLAC

Oh, I'm sure the original poster could tell the difference. Especially through earbuds, or even IEMs, while using the Fuze as a portable player in the real world. Probably even through computer speakers.

 

After all, the files are (a moment of hushed awe followed by a spectacular fanfare) 24-BIT FLAC!!! Feel the magic, people!!

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SanDisk User
Posts: 35
Registered: ‎10-07-2008

Re: Sansa Fuze and Clip need to support 24-bit FLAC

Yes, I can definitely tell the difference between 24 and 16 bit. Forgive my lack of a technical explanation, but those extra 8 bits helping bring out the emotional layer (e.g., wailing guitar, deep bass) that's stripped out in 16 bit, no matter how good the master is. I realize that your typical music consumer might not be able to tell the difference, but there is a growing portion of the music-buying public that does appreciate high-resolution digital music.

 

And it sucks that I can now buy all this 24 bit music online, but I still can't play it on my Fuze.

 

And I just don't get it from a business perspective as to why Sandisk would not want to make this possible. High-resolution music takes means larger file sizes and more demand for their cards, which is a major source of revenue. 

 

 

 

 


@Marvin_Martian wrote:
I can't believe I am saying this, but are you saying you could ABX the 24 vs. 16? Because most of us can't even ABX .flac from LAME V0 or 320.

 

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SanDisk User
Posts: 35
Registered: ‎10-07-2008

Re: Sansa Fuze and Clip need to support 24-bit FLAC

Actually, I listen to my 24-bit music on a Logitech Touch, driven through an ancient Nakamichi Amp and some Bose Speakers that I bought at Best Buy. Average equipment, but with a high-quality source, you can still tell the difference.  

 

@ whatchamacallit wrote:

Oh, I'm sure the original poster could tell the difference. Especially through earbuds, or even IEMs, while using the Fuze as a portable player in the real world. Probably even through computer speakers.

 

After all, the files are (a moment of hushed awe followed by a spectacular fanfare) 24-BIT FLAC!!! Feel the magic, people!!


 

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SanDisk User
Posts: 98
Registered: ‎02-18-2010

Re: Sansa Fuze and Clip need to support 24-bit FLAC

Rockbox it.

 Rockbox has tons of support ofr music like aac and midi, but i don't know if rockbox supports 24 bit flac.

it probbaly does, but i don't know

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SanDisk Guru
Posts: 1,265
Registered: ‎04-24-2009

Re: Sansa Fuze and Clip need to support 24-bit FLAC


@databass wrote:

Yes, I can definitely tell the difference between 24 and 16 bit. Forgive my lack of a technical explanation, but those extra 8 bits helping bring out the emotional layer (e.g., wailing guitar, deep bass) that's stripped out in 16 bit, no matter how good the master is.


 

 
 The extra 8 bits just encode all the noise on the original tapes (which do not have >16 bit resolution in practice) in more detail.
 
The beatles remasters are a great example.  Its precisely the same audio on the 16 bit and 24 bit tracks, not because they didn't remaster correctly, but because the source tapes aren't even capable of matching the resolution of the original CD release, let alone the 24 bit version, so remastering does nothing.  Don't buy the hype, 24 bit is just a scam to get people to buy the same albums again.  Once they're done with that they'll start trying to sell you 32 bit tracks.
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SanDisk User
Posts: 35
Registered: ‎10-07-2008

Re: Sansa Fuze and Clip need to support 24-bit FLAC

Well, I have to partially agree with you in that I still prefer the sound of the Beatles on the remastered analog vinyl over the 24 bit Flac. And yes, the Beatles source masters were of relatively low quality, compared to a lot of the music the followed in the 70's, like Led Zeppelin or Yes.
But before anyone says there's no difference between 16 and 24 bit, you should really try listening to a high quality vinyl lp, played on a decent turntable, that's ripped to 24 bit. We can argue about resolution and numbers and all that, but there is a difference. 
 I really think that Sandisk's strategy of selling more cards through crappy-sounding SlotMusic and SlotRadio content is not that way to go. And I believe that sales figures bear me out on this. Instead they should be going after audiophiles, who may be relatively limited in number, but are growing and consume lots of memory. Obviously, Sansa will never catch up with Apple in the digtal audio player space. But it can remain a respectable second place by capturing the audiophile market, and sell lots more memory.
Hell, just check out hdtracks.com...this is just a small example, but it would be a perfect partner site for the Fuze, that is, if the Fuze could support the high-quality content that hdtracks is selling.
 
 
 

@saratoga wrote:

@databass wrote:

Yes, I can definitely tell the difference between 24 and 16 bit. Forgive my lack of a technical explanation, but those extra 8 bits helping bring out the emotional layer (e.g., wailing guitar, deep bass) that's stripped out in 16 bit, no matter how good the master is.


 

 
 The extra 8 bits just encode all the noise on the original tapes (which do not have >16 bit resolution in practice) in more detail.
 
The beatles remasters are a great example.  Its precisely the same audio on the 16 bit and 24 bit tracks, not because they didn't remaster correctly, but because the source tapes aren't even capable of matching the resolution of the original CD release, let alone the 24 bit version, so remastering does nothing.  Don't buy the hype, 24 bit is just a scam to get people to buy the same albums again.  Once they're done with that they'll start trying to sell you 32 bit tracks.