I am using Windows Media Player (the newer one-11?). My Sansa player has music on the player, but no music when I plug it into the computer. What do I have to do? I hope this question has not been answered before (couldn’t find it) and thank you for the help!
Settings/System Settings/USB Mode. Switch from MSC to MTP or the other direction. (Don’t use Auto-Detect.) Look again for the music.
MSC appears like another drive on your computer–drag-and-drop. MTP connects via Windows Media Player. Your computer can only see music that was transferred in one mode at a time–the Fuze sees all the music in both modes.
I just use MSC, but if you like Windows Media player you can use it with MTP. It’s better for your own sanity to stick with one mode or the other, although the Fuze really doesn’t care.
Black-Rectangle wrote: MTP connects via Windows Media Player.
I just use MSC, but if you like Windows Media player you can use it with MTP. It’s better for your own sanity to stick with one mode or the other, although the Fuze really doesn’t care.
This is incorrect. With MTP you don’t have to use WMP…I sure don’t. My Sony player is MTP, yet I can drag and drop to it just fine. On the flip side of that, you can also use WMP in MSC mode, if you are so inclined. I don’t know why you would, but it is possible.
Don’t get me wrong, given the choice, I do prefer MSC…if I have the choice of MSC or MTP I’ll choose MSC 100% of the time.
Message Edited by Marvin_Martian on 11-23-2009 03:26 PM
But the point of using MTP mode is to use it with WMPlayer, particularly to send over files with evil encrypted DRM. For anything except DRM files (from Rhapsody, Napster, your audiobook library), MSC is the way to go.
Black-Rectangle wrote:
But the point of using MTP mode is to use it with WMPlayer, particularly to send over files with evil encrypted DRM. For anything except DRM files (from Rhapsody, Napster, your audiobook library), MSC is the way to go.
It’s not "the point " of it, but it is one of its uses. From a MS employee over at anythingbutipod back in 2006…
Actually, you’re confusing MTP with DRM. MTP is entirely independent of any DRM, including Windows Media DRM. However, in Microsoft’s Windows Media Player ecosystem, we require MTP to enable our DRM for transfers, streams, and other protected transactions.
_Firstly, let me correct a couple of popular misconceptions about MTP:
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Yes, you can drag and drop files to and from MTP devices connected to a PC just like you can with UMS. On Windows XP you need to have WMP10/11 installed in order to have the MTP driver on your system. Windows Vista will ship with native MTP support, obviously. With WMP11, I can drag albums to and from devices, I can copy non-media content to my device (data taxi) and I can double-click and execute content from a portable device.
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If you want, you can rearrange the folders on your device using the Windows Shell Extension (Windows Explorer). Try it - I just did on a Clix, by creating a “Country Music” folder and then dragged all my country content to that folder. I disconnected and then browsed and played my content back on the device just like before. Regardless, this is a device implementation issue - not MTP - but there is nothing about the protocol that disallows this._
_3) UMS is less intuitive than MTP because the average person in the street doesn’t connect their music player to their computer and expect to see it pop up as "E:". Most of us in this forum are pretty experienced in this stuff, and have lived through the UMS days - new users however, shouldn’t have to. They should plug their device in and see an icon representing that device.
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MTP is being standardized in the USB-IF in exactly the same fashion that Mass Storage Class was standardized. Actually, I’m the chair of that effort - so if you have any questions, please let me know. The point is - anyone can implement MTP; it is file system, operating system and DRM mechanism agnostic.
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MTP enables Windows Media DRM. Now, I understand that DRM is a sensitive issue, and that some folks want to avoid DRM like the plague. No worries - heck I rip my own personal CDs in unprotected format for my own personal use, but having an MTP DAP doesn’t impact my desire to use either DRM’d, clear, or mixed content. If I had a UMS device then I’d never be able to purchase content online from the major stores like Urge, Napster, Rhapsody, etc…
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PlaysForSure does not require devices to support only MTP - UMS can be implemented too, but under certain conditions that prevent newbies from transferring content via MTP, switching to UMS and then calling tech support because they can’t find/play their content
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Device vendors are trying to build products which will generate the fewest support calls. Retailers are trying to sell products which generate the fewest returns. Overwhelmingly high return numbers on UMS devices (which were returned and swapped for iPods in a very large percentage of cases) meant that vendors switched to MTP support and retailers started to strongly support PlaysForSure. Don’t forget that in all cases, Microsoft is a partner in this technology with device vendors and retailers, along with consumers._ Keep in mind, this was pre-Vista when he wrote that. Now point#3, for example, I would expect many to get all hyper about…but think about all the posts we see where people can’t find their music becasue of Auto-defect mode, and how we have to explain about choosing either MTP or MSC mode. I think with MTP the original intent was to try and ■■■■■-proof the DAP…just like the much-reviled ipod, which many less-expert users enjoy because it just works for them.
As he said, DRM and MTP are not the same thing. There is no DRM music on my Sony. I plug it in, I open it in Explorer, and I drag and drop/copy and paste my tunes onto it. I haven’t found anything yet that I’ve wanted to do with it that I can’t, so far. It even has folder browsing. I just see a little picture of a DAP and the word “Walkman” instead of a drive letter.
I am one of the more experienced users he refers to that is entirely comfortable with MSC, but since I don’t use Rhapsody, or Audible, or any of those subscription deals, I’ve found that it really doesn’t seem to matter which mode I use. My Sony is MTP-only, and my Samsung gives me the choice, and it has always been on MSC…but they both work. If I buy a Clip+ next spring as an outdoor player, I’ll try both modes, and see if I notice a difference.
You’re familiar with neutron bob, sansa guru extraordinaire…MTP works for him just fine, with his Rhapsody. I’ve yet to see him complain about any issue it causes him. And MTP I think helps the playlist lovers too (as many of you know, I don’t make playlists)
I am absolutely not saying give up MSC and use MTP…I’m just saying a lot of people make MTP out to be worse than it is, and often for the wrong reasons. My intent is not to argue here, just to try and inform. :smileyvery-happy: 
Message Edited by Marvin_Martian on 11-24-2009 05:23 AM
I never equated MTP with DRM, I just said that was the only time it was required. Which is pretty much what Mr. Microsoft said too.
But it’s a fascinating letter anyway, an insight into their mindset.
The idea was ■■■■■-proofing: the dream of iTunes–>iPod being replaced by WMP–>Sansa. Make Auto-Detect the default, go to MTP mode if Windows Media Player is installed, and Little Sally Musiclover won’t even have to think about where her files are–they’ll just PlayForSure.
Unfortunately, it was wishful thinking. The number of bad MTP connections people are always complaining about here, the sneaky DRM default settings (ripping albums to copy-protected .wma–what user who knew what was going on would do that?), the mindless Auto-sync–it’s not MTP mode, it’s Windows Media Player, but they go hand in glove (or foot in mouth).
And the real problem was always DRM, which basically implies working against the person who paid for the computer and the Sansa. Yes, it had to be implemented to please the greedbags at the RIAA and MPAA, but let’s just drop the pretense that it was anything but anti-consumer. How many thousands of law-abiding people have thought they bought music only to lose it with a hard-drive crash, a reinstall, a company going bankrupt or some unknown glitch?
I don’t begrudge anyone her choice of mode. Whatever works for people is fine with me. I have Rhapsody on my computer myself (but not To Go), and if people understand what compromises they are making–which is to say, examine some very fine print in the marketing hoopla–then it’s great to have all that music at your fingertips.
But I have to say, this line:
the average person in the street doesn’t connect their music player to their computer and expect to see it pop up as "E:".
doesn’t make sense to me. You plug in a box with music on it, the box appears in Windows Explorer with music in it (MSC/UMS). That’s what I’d expect.
It’s the convolutions of MTP–virtual device, explore deeper to find what’s there–that are far more annoying to all those people in the street trying to connect their Fuzes to their laptops before the traffic light changes.
Microsoft dumped that Plays For Sure slogan, didn’t they? Because the only thing that plays for sure is .mp3.
