09-14-2009 10:08 AM
“Perhaps your files aren't deeply nested.”
Some of my files are nested like:
Internal Memory -> Music -> Classical -> Mozart -> Chamber Music -> [Three Folders]
External uSD Card -> Music -> Classical -> Various Composers -> Orchestral -> Concertos -> [Five Folders]
“Perhaps your filenames and folder names might be on the short side, so the path for each file might not take up so much space.”
My folder names are all short—no more than about twenty-six characters. I am using the MTP mode, and in the MTP mode, long folder names are problematic. Some of my file names, however, are long—e.g., 2 Songs for Medium Voice & 8 Instruments, 1 and String Quartet, op. 127, 2, Adagio, ma non troppo e molto cantabile.
09-14-2009 10:44 AM
This does seem odd. Perhaps his problem might after al be related to specific issues using OGG and not to having too many folders, or having file names or folder names taking up too much space?
A question for the OP. Have you tried deleting MTABLE.SYS? Doing this will force the player to rebuild its directory from scratch. You did say you formatted the player after you did the last firmware update?
09-14-2009 12:10 PM
After deleting the MTABLE.SYS I get the same DB from the rebuild.
By moving all files into the MUSIC\ folder and deleting all nested folders the DB takes about 800 files more (~6000 total). Finding a song in that mess is nearly impossible but it was a nice experiment to confirm what's been said.
This means that the number of files the Fuze can put into the DB depends on the length of the file path names. You can fit only so many filenames into a limited number of bytes (MTABLE.SYS is always of size 1862468 bytes). Why does the size have to be fixed?? Why can't you (the FW) simply keep writing to the file until all songs are inside the DB (or you run out of disk space)?
Now there's hoping that the devs are aware of this problem and will increase the limit to accomodate all those files in the DB, or make the DB grow as necessary.
09-14-2009 08:37 PM - edited 09-14-2009 10:46 PM
""Now there's hoping that the devs are aware of this problem and will increase the limit to accomodate all those files in the DB, or make the DB grow as necessary. "
It isn't that simple though, as this is a low cost, low power consumption device, so physical ram is very limited. It just shows that excessive nesting should not be used, and filenames should be short. I guess one could use a bit of nesting, and use very short folder names if the plan to cram 8,000 files on the player.
Message Edited by JK98 on 09-15-2009 01:46 AM
09-15-2009 12:55 PM
Hi all, interesting discussion with a lot of good input! Haven't had a chance to step in earlier because I just returned from vacation.
Nevertheless I'd like to add some of my findings:
- folder nesting works at least up to 10 levels (see here)
- my fuze handles up to about 9200 audio files (see here)
My setup in these tests was to use mp3 and wav files with really short names and little or no tags (<20 characters) on internal storage only. I'm running MSC USB connection mode all the time.
Moreover I'd like to mention that there are obviously more hard-coded limits of all sorts in the database file besides the allocation space used for folder/file names. There seems to be little or no error checking if you run into these limits as it has been noticed by different users (see for example here).
I understand that most users wont have problems at all because they never have that many audio files on the player. If there would be a next firmware update increasing the file limit without lowering the database refresh time I believe many more customers would complain like "Why does it take so long to add/delete a single file to my player?" or similar things which are not so easy to understand and accept by the average user. On the other hand I would greatly appreciate to see SanDisk developers to tell us where the current database limitations are. This might allow us to find workarounds for special user requirements.
Back to the problem of the OP. I'd recommend to
- Always stay at less than 8000 (maybe 9200) files! Otherwise all sorts of problems might occure.
- If unsure about tagging issues copy files in several chunks, not all files at once.
- Avoid long tag field strings!
- Use short folder/file names whenever possible.
Fuze 8GB (V01.02.28), Olympus LS-10
10-31-2009 10:46 AM
A little update:
After a long and painful process of moving files on and off the fuze and retagging all files, I managed to get a maximum of 9999 ogg files onto my Fuze. 1 song more and the firmware will badly screw up the list of displayed files (folder browsing). The entries in the MMTABLE.SYS look correct though, so it seems to be a firmware bug.
10-31-2009 06:35 PM
Even with a 32gb card I wouldn't reach that many files. I'm using OGG on quality 5, 16gb of space filled up with 3114 songs. I'd still be shy of 8000 at that rate. Everyone's different, though, I guess they prioritised price over giving a little more leeway.