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SanDisk Professor
Posts: 579
Registered: ‎12-02-2008

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?

[ Edited ]

@jkj1962 wrote:

@donp wrote:

 

[snipped for space]


My turntable has the same setup, and the fact that you have to adjust the turntable should tell you something.  As far as that goes, if the strobe is based on the frequency of the 60 Hz AC line, which is probably is a little orange neon, you're off as well.  It has variance, too.  If it varies, so does your speed.

 

 

 



Grid power is really pretty consistent. Here's a sample recording and analysis from a web site for time geeks (I don't know where this guy lives): http://leapsecond.com/pages/mains/ In his measurements the worst case over a couple of months (and not often) looks like 0.05 Hz



IMHO, as with the others, your samples are to small to be of any significance.  One unit out of millions is negligible.  Your tests supposedly "proved" Sandisk players play fast, whereas someone else "proved" they play slow.  Good job. 

The post I was addressing was yours that said "The level of precision they are demanding doesn't exist in consumer electronics,"

which seems to indicate that the reported speed error in Fuzes (Clip in my case) are inescapably the norm for consumer electronics.  My measurement of hte Clip was in the same error range (though fast instead of slow) as the others that you said should be expected.  

 

My point was that the 5 other players I tested were all at least 20x tighter tolerance on pitch which SEEMS to indicate that it is the norm in consumer electronics.  

 

For myself, I wouldn't notice a 1% pitch difference unless I was trying to play along with an insrument that isn't readily retuned (ie piano)

Message Edited by donp on 02-01-2009 05:46 PM
Message Edited by donp on 02-01-2009 06:09 PM
Message Edited by donp on 02-01-2009 06:09 PM
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SanDisk User
Posts: 30
Registered: ‎12-16-2008

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?


@fuze_owner-GB wrote:

...I have a $12,000 turntable at home that plays 1% fast, and that is the way the device was designed.  

 

If I have to have perfect speed or perfect pitch...


1) I have two $9 MP3 players that are smaller than my USB memory stick that play at the correct speed.  

2) I am curious what turntable you have... most $100 belt drive turntables have a strobe light mechanism that allows you to adjust the speed. Direct drive turntables are usually "quartz locked" and also play at the correct speed without adjustment.

3) This begs a question, do you have perfect pitch or perfect speed?

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SanDisk User
Posts: 30
Registered: ‎12-16-2008

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?


@jkj1962 wrote:

@donp wrote:

 

[snipped for space]


 ...if the strobe is based on the frequency of the 60 Hz AC line, which is probably is a little orange neon, you're off as well.  It has variance, too.  If it varies, so does your speed.

 


JFYI power companies are VERY careful with the frequency of the power they produce.... to the point that at the end of the day if they are even one cycle off they will make a little adjustment to put it back in.... otherwise all those obsolete clocks with sychronous motors would not keep the right time.

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SanDisk Professor
Posts: 527
Registered: ‎05-05-2008

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?

[ Edited ]

Guys...all due respect here, most of you have a lot more technical knowledge than me, but this is getting a wee bit an*l-compulsive.

I am interested in the topic and what, if any, SanDisk's response is, but c'mon, this is a throw-away consumer product to be had for under $100.  It's amazing what they packed into this little sucker, the sound quality is pretty durn good and the features are more than are found in iPods costing 2 to 3x as much.

PLUS, they offer some level of support and ongoing firmware upgrades!  How much do you want?  Maybe they could pack an entire digital recording studio in here, give it a terabyte of storage on-board, liquid nitrogen cooled, with a 2000-hour battery, add shortwave radio and satelite uplink and downlink...plus 78 rpm shellac disc record support (only for REAL audiophiles)in a tintanium-berrilium zircon-encrusted case and provide lifetime support with a VIP Lear Jet available 24/7...for under $25...still, there would be grousing.

 

I'm not saying there's no room for improvement; that seems to be actually ongoing...but let's be real.

Alright, just my two cents (pun intended)

Over and out.

Message Edited by blackdog-sansa on 02-01-2009 04:58 PM
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SanDisk Senior User
Posts: 135
Registered: ‎01-13-2009

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?

I have not have had any problems with this, its how the ablum, or the order of music you listen to.

 

Its called mix. In fact, sometimes, my music plays REALLY fast.

My Fuze
Revision 1
4GB internal memory (no micro SDHC card yet)
Firmware: V01.02.26A Headphones: Skullcandy Smokin Buds
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Newbie
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎02-01-2009

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?

 

Variation of frequency in the UK and Europe is  

 

Your Electricity Board is obliged by law to deliver 230 volts +10% - 6% (ie. between 216.2 volts and 253 volts), and to maintain the frequency at 50Hz ± 1% (ie. between 49Hz and 51Hz) over a 24 hour period.

 

In the United States and Canada, national standards specify that the nominal voltage at the source should be 120 V and allow a range of 114 to 126 V (-5% to +5%). Historically 110, 115 and 117 volts have been used at different times and places in North America. Main power is sometimes spoken of as "one-ten"; however, 120 is the nominal voltage.Not sure of the American frequency tolerances but they will probably be similar.

 

(The strange UK/European voltage limits were a fudge to account for the UK's original 240V and most of Europes 220V after a vague attempt to standardise on the same figures).

 

As far as I recall it was the cheaper turntables that ran directly off the mains, most decent stuff ran through controller circuits usually with an independantly timed strobe for speed checking/setting.

 

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SanDisk User
Posts: 84
Registered: ‎02-11-2009

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?

I think I may know why this problem is occurring.  

 

To test you would need two audio files, one for which the "slowdown" playback problem occurs, and another for which the problem does not occur.

 

Check the sample rate of each song.  To do this in XP, right click on the mp3, select Properties -> Summary -> Advanced, then scroll down to the entry for "Audio Sample Rate."  Post back the numbers here.

 

 

If it is what I suspect it is, then one mp3 will probably have an audio sample rate that is integer multiple of 44.1Khz, and the other will be an integer multiple of 48Khz.  

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Newbie
Posts: 18
Registered: ‎12-29-2008

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?

All my songs are 44.1.

 

When played on my PC or any other device I've ever had, pitch is smack on.

 

When played on the Fuze, pitch is flat and speed is slow.

 

= unusable.

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SanDisk User
Posts: 84
Registered: ‎02-11-2009

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?

hmm, does anyone have the Audio Sample Rate for one file that plays back slow, and another that plays back fine?
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SanDisk User
Posts: 30
Registered: ‎12-16-2008

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?

[ Edited ]

Most are comparing THE SAME file on both PC & Fuze, so even if it were recorded wrong the pitch or time difference is what we are interested in.

 

My file was generated with the Audacity sound editor at exactly 44100 Hz sample rate. There is no room for error since it was created simply as a pure mathematical function.  It shows 44Kh in the windows properties. It plays slow on the Fuze and dead on for the PC and other MP3 players in the house.

 

Message Edited by Mp3Geek on 02-14-2009 05:18 AM