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SanDisk Guru
Posts: 3,676
Registered: ‎12-04-2008

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?

Hey Arranger Great Post and you are right. Do you have a V1 fuze? I wonder if you and the few others who have this defect got Fuzes from the same batch... Its not like this solves anything but it would be interesting to know.

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SanDisk User
Posts: 84
Registered: ‎02-11-2009

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?


@donp wrote:

 

 

 


 
So what level of precision does "consumer electronics" have?
 I made 1000 Hz  and 1002 Hz wave files in cool edit, converted to flac and ogg/vorbis for the players, and burned to 2 CD's.  Playing 2 sources at the sime time will give a beat frequency equal to the difference in the tones' frequencies (as anyone who's tuned 2 instruments against each other knows).  The 1002 hz file was a sanity check to make sure I could hear the beat when 2 sources are known to be off... worked in all cases.
 Playing Cool edit against foobar on the same PC, flac, wav, or ogg, no beat (everything consistantly in tune) 
CD player vs DVD player (both fairly cheap consumer models, different brands and about 20 years apart in age) - roughly 30 seconds per beat  (1/30 hz), for an difference of 1 part in 30,000 or 0.003% 
CD player or Cool Edit vs  Sansa E200 (rockbox playing flac)- beat of ~1/3 Hz, error 1 part in 3000, or 0.03%.
Cool Edit vs Neuros player (playing ogg file) - Also about 1/3 Hz, so 0.03%
 Cool Edit vs Clip (playing flac) - beat of 7 Hz, error about 1 part in 140 or 0.7%   I checked this one by generating a new wave of 1007 Hz, which was in tune with the Clip playing the "1000 Hz" file.
So the Clip's pitch error (and presumably play speed error) is over 20x worse than my other portables, and 200x worse than the difference between my CD player and DVD player.
So the typical standard for consumer electronics (including an older Sansa model) really is a lot better than the current lot.

 

Message Edited by donp on 02-01-2009 03:21 PM

 

  

*applauds*

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SanDisk User
Posts: 30
Registered: ‎12-16-2008

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?

Mine has firmware 2.01.17 and was bought in December at a high volume discount store - if that helps.

@Conversionbox wrote:
Do you have a V1 fuze? I wonder if you and the few others who have this defect got Fuzes from the same batch... Its not like this solves anything but it would be interesting to know.

 

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SanDisk Guru
Posts: 3,676
Registered: ‎12-04-2008

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?

So a V2 fuze... We will see what the others have.

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SanDisk Fanatic
Posts: 303
Registered: ‎08-27-2008

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?

Has anyone checked if the difference they are hearing has anything to do with firmware vision? When I went from v01.01.11A to v01.01.22A on my 8GB Fuze  I thought there was a difference in sound quality, volume and pitch but the more I used it with the new firmware the more I got use to it..  I just got another 8GB Fuze with firmware v01.01.11A so when I have the time I will compare the two as best I can..  I do have two Set's of the same Sony ear buds too. That will help..  I'll post if I ever get   the time to do the tests.. I have to admit I did not read all the posts about this so someone may have already done this test already.. I must say I still enjoy the Fuse in any case.. All that music in one small case with so many options!! I love it!  George   
*His* 8GB Silver Fuze v01.02.31A also 8GB MicroSDHC card installed *Hers* 4GB red Fuze with 16GB micro SDHC card! Firmware v01.02.31A still installed. Acquired another 8GB Fuze also with firmware v01.02.31A now..
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SanDisk Guru
Posts: 16,315
Registered: ‎04-17-2008

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?


@maxplanck wrote:

 

For musicians who use the Fuze, it's a major issue, really a complete dealbreaker that makes the device useless for them if they can't get the music to play at the correct pitch.

 

 

It amazes me how people cling to the anachronistic belief that "bad words," in and of themselves, are harmful to anyone. Heaven forbid that a child hears a word that describes how s/he was created. We can't have our children being too knowledgeable about the natural world around them, that would be "bad."

 

Or heaven forbid that children hear a word that describes a material that everyone is well familiar with, which comes out of our rear ends every day.  

 

Words in and of themselves don't harm people, it's the way in which they're used that can be harmful. To curse in frustration at pathological business practices doesn't harm anyone, and in fact helps society by bringing attention to the problem of pathological business practices. 

 

When words are used in a threatening or demeaning manner, that is harmful to children and should be avoided.  I find it quite idiosyncratic that many people who would not use a "bad" word in front of a child, would not hesitate to threaten or demean that child if they "misbehave."  Or that "bad" words are considered unsuitable for children to hear in media regardless of their context, while violence in media is considered suitable so long as the depiction of violence is sufficiently unrealistic (i.e. less gory with less harmful consequences than if the violent act were actually performed).

Message Edited by maxplanck on 02-15-2009 01:26 PM

 

Except for the first (one sentence) paragraph about musicians and Fuzes, how exactly is this rant about 'bad words & children' on-topic or relevant to this discussion?

 

What's amazing is that some will use any excuse to jump on their soapbox to further promote their own agenda, whether it has anything to do with the conversation or not.

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Newbie
Posts: 18
Registered: ‎12-29-2008

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?

Mine was a 2.01.17 purchased just before Christmas at Radio Shack.

 

My fuze was replaced by a new Sony NWZ-e438f that reproduces tracks precisely on pitch and at identical speed to the same tracks played on all of my other devices.

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SanDisk Guru
Posts: 3,676
Registered: ‎12-04-2008

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?


@Arranger wrote:

Mine was a 2.01.17 purchased just before Christmas at Radio Shack.

 

My fuze was replaced by a new Sony NWZ-e438f that reproduces tracks precisely on pitch and at identical speed to the same tracks played on all of my other devices.


Ladies and Gentlemen, I think we have the First step in the solution to the problem. The 2 people who have most activly pursued a solution to this issue, both have V2 fuzes. Is this the case for others who have this issue? My Guess is that it is. Does anybody know a way to tell what batch the fuzes are from? I wonder if they were all made at the same time?


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SanDisk User
Posts: 30
Registered: ‎12-16-2008

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?

[ Edited ]

@niko_sama wrote:

I finally read everything.  Interesting subject.   

I'd be interested in knowing more about the timing source used in the fuze/clip.

Now I'd like to test my devices and see how they rate.

 


I found my wife's Chromatic tuner again and you guys sparked my interest so I made a few new test files using Audacity and tested them. The results are shown below.

1) 440 Hz sine wave at 44100 sample rate encoded with LAME MP3 - 20 cents slow

2) 880 Hz sine wave at 44100 sample rate encoded with LAME MP3 - 20 cents slow

3) 440 Hz sine wave at 48000 sample rate encoded with LAME MP3 - dead on

4) 440 Hz sine wave at 22050 sample rate encoded with OGG         - dead on

5) 440 Hz sine wave at 96000 sample rate encoded with OGG         - dead on

 

There seems to be a pattern here. Does anyone want to comment.

 

Note that the real time clock is about 5 minutes slow - but I set it about a month ago.

 

p.s. I can hear a clear difference in pitch between these files.

 

Message Edited by Mp3Geek on 02-15-2009 07:00 PM
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Newbie
Posts: 18
Registered: ‎12-29-2008

Re: Before buying: songs playing at a slower speed?

Wow, great work.  Could it be that Sandisk made a simple error and set the Fuze to play tracks normally recorded at 48kHz?  That would be quite a blunder, but one that might be easy to refirmware.

 

Great effort.