Battery replacement?

You right the battery is not replaceable in the Fuze! I am hoping for 3 to 5 years out of the battery on our units. After the battery is no longer useful I have a Griffin Dock that I will dedicate one of our Fuze’s too at that time…  So my unit will still be useful to me if I choose to still use it… If it lasts 3 to 5 years most users will dump it before it’s useful battery life expediency do to new and changing technology…  Not to worry just enjoy your unit for the moment in time you are in! IMO!!! Oh  by the way it has been posted on how to get inside the Fuze! After warranty and when the battery goes dead or bad someone with knowledge may be able to replace the on board battery… This can be done at your own risk!!!      George 

@chrisg_uk wrote:

I see the Fuze specification says the battery is not replaceable. How long might it last? . . .

 

. . . Personally, I’m not going to buy another player until I can find one with a user replaceable battery. 

You may be in for a long wait! The trend is for slimmer, smaller players. It’s also not cost-effective to make the batteries replaceable in the units. It costs much more to manufacture players that have this, both in materials & labor, and thus they can’t be competitively priced with similar units where the batteries are sealed in.

The Fuze uses a Lithium-Polymer battery. State of the Art. 10 years life expectancy has been mentioned here by someone who should know. While theoretically still a disposable unit, that’s a pretty good life span that any electronic device would be proud to boast.

I’m not an electical engineer but I’m a fairly intelligent person with some electronics and design experience;  I find it very difficult to believe that having a user replaceable battery would make that much of a difference in the final cost of the product!  Perhaps someone with some knowledge can provide some detail.

The battery would be identical.  The only elements that would change would be a set of electrical contacts instead of a soldered-in connection.  Yes, if a bettery did fail (quality control is NOT 100% perfect with ANY manufacturer) it would seem much easier FOR THE MANUFACTURER to replace just the battery rather than a complete unit.  Of course this benefits the consumer as well.

Personally I’d like to see user-replaceable batteries without removal of a cover.  I have an older Canon ePH digital camer that has a proprietary battery that has a little pod-bay door and slides out and in.  Always keep a spare in the charger and you’re good to go.

I’d like having an extra battery or two for long trips and 8-16 hour air travel.  The battery could slide in just like the micro SD card does.

Perhaps n-Bob could weigh in on this one.

Usually if batteries are not replacable they tend to last longer than the ones that are replacable. Even though some players have replacable batteries, their batteries cost half or even more as their player does. Anway the Sansa Fuze will last along 3-5 years likely.

@blackdog_sansa wrote:

I’m not an electical engineer but I’m a fairly intelligent person with some electronics and design experience;  I find it very difficult to believe that having a user replaceable battery would make that much of a difference in the final cost of the product!  Perhaps someone with some knowledge can provide some detail.

 

Perhaps n-Bob could weigh in on this one.

Sansfix already has.

http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=sansafuse&message.id=10102#M10102

"

The Fuze uses a Lithium-Polymer battery. State of the Art. 10 years life expectancy has been mentioned here by someone who should know. While theoretically still a disposable unit, that’s a pretty good life span that any electronic device would be proud to boast."

10 years? No way. Realistically one should probably expect 3 years of reasonable use. Over time the battery capacity will decrease. While the battery might not be totally dead in 3 years, if its capacity is less than half the original capacity, many might want a new player.

“I’m not an electical engineer but I’m a fairly intelligent person with some electronics and design experience;  I find it very difficult to believe that having a user replaceable battery would make that much of a difference in the final cost of the product!”

The Fuze has a lithium ion polymer battery. These polymer batteries can be designed to an odd shape so they can fit in the empty space left by the other components. There is great flexibility in the design of lion polymer batteries, so this gives more flexibility in choosing the other player components and still having the player be thin. User swappable batteries need to be much more robust than non swappable ones, as they need to have a strong outer casing to resist damage from physical trauma. The replaceable battery design also needs some sort of spring battery contact to hold the battery and make secure contact, and some sort of hatch to allow access to the battery. While a weird shaped battery might cost more than a standard shaped one, it might allow greater flexibility in design and lower overall cost. While it is easier to design a player with a built in battery, imo it is not easier to use one though. So therefore I want an easily swappable battery design(I want to be able to carry spare batteries), with a great preference for an inexpensive easy to find standard battery(AA or AAA sized preferred, although using a 18650 lion battery wouldn’t be so bad).

Notice that I want a battery that is easily swappable, and not one that is just replaceable and needs tools and a soldering iron to replace it.

If you have a little free time, go to Wikipedia, and search the following:  Lithium-Polymer, Lithium-Ion, Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH), and NiCd.

The key issue is energy density and service life.  The Lithium-Polymer is state of the art, and offers tremendous advantages, with one caveat: the charge level must be carefully managed.

SanDisk has found the solution in using the processor to manage the battery (this is why the device charges when ON only).

The e200 has a triple contact spring connector, plus requires a subassembly to house the battery module.  The Fuze simply uses a custom pack, soldered in place, that uses every available bit of the interior space.  In the long run, this is the hot ticket.

Bob  :smileyvery-happy:

blackdog-sansa wrote:

The battery would be identical.  The only elements that would change would be a set of electrical contacts instead of a soldered-in connection.

Unfortunately, that isn’t all that would change. Neither the battery nor the Fuze casing could be the same. A removable battery has to have make/break contacts with a reasonable contact surface area and which flex in the z-axis, rather than a fixed soldered connection. This makes the battery slightly bigger. Additionally, a removable battery needs to slide out and in easily which requires more clearance in the casing than a fixed battery, making the casing deeper. Also, the battery cover needs to slide on and off easily, which requires yet more clearance. As well as increasing size, the added complication adds cost.So we end up with a bigger, more expensive Fuze for little added functionality or life.

I’ve read this complaint for years on the iPod forums. During all that time, there were other MP3 players that had easily-replaceable batteries, and they all sold poorly. Meanwhile the iPod, sleek and thin with no user-replaceable battery, became the cash cow that caused Apple stock to skyrocket.

@jk98 wrote:

10 years? No way. Realistically one should probably expect 3 years of reasonable use. Over time the battery capacity will decrease. While the battery might not be totally dead in 3 years, if its capacity is less than half the original capacity, many might want a new player.

Way. I can believe this. I have a Samsung cellular phone that is coming up on 9 years old, still with the same original Li-ion battery. It’s used every day (or almost anyway). Granted I’m not talking on it 24/7, but it is still ON drawing current. Also, I’ll admit that I have to charge it more often now as the battery is getting noticably weaker, but the fact is it is really old and still works.

The Li-po battery is the next generation technology over the Li-ion, so I could see this lasting 10 years with care. Maybe not for someone who has their earbuds in 12 hours a day, but with moderate use and sensible care, why couldn’t it last a decade or more?

I don’t have the link handy to the post, but it was Sansafix recently who offered that he’d recycle someone’s Fuze for them when the battery finally died, because they couldn’t stand the thought of throwing it away and that these batteries were not the environmentally-correct and forward-thinking thing to use. He said to look him up in about 10 years.

@jk98 wrote:

10 years? No way. Realistically one should probably expect 3 years of reasonable use. Over time the battery capacity will decrease. While the battery might not be totally dead in 3 years, if its capacity is less than half the original capacity, many might want a new player.

Way. I can believe this is plausible. Certianly not every unit as some are subjected to extremes in temperature and use, but when averaged out it shouldn’t be that hard to imagine or expect. I have a Samsung cellular phone that is coming up on 9 years old, still with the same original Li-ion battery. It’s used every day (with a few holidays off). Granted I’m not talking on it 24/7, but it is still ON drawing current. Also, I’ll admit that I have to charge it more often now as the battery is getting noticably weaker, but the fact is it is really old and still works.

The Li-po battery is the next generation technology over the Li-ion, so I could see this lasting 10 years with care. Maybe not for someone who has their earbuds in 12 hours a day, but with moderate use and sensible care, why couldn’t it last a decade or more?

I don’t have the link handy to the post, but it was Sansafix recently who offered that he’d recycle someone’s Fuze for them when the battery finally died, because they couldn’t stand the thought of throwing it away and that these batteries were not the environmentally-correct and forward-thinking thing to use. He said to look him up in about 10 years. :wink:

Well I certainly seem to have sparked a lively debate, and many thanks for all your input. I’m very interested in the Lithium-Polymer technology and will be watching that as it develops and hopefully proves itself to be the answer we have all been searching for. But promises have been made before, and to date, most rechargeable batteries fail for one reason or another long before the device itself. I still don’t accept the argument that it is too difficult and expensive to integrate user replaceable batteries: Mobile phone manufacturers manage it very well indeed. I’d be very happy with a player the size of my ancient Motorola RAZR, several years old and now on its third battery. By contrast, I have an mp3 player less than two years old that no longer holds a useful charge and is therefore beyond economic repair. Many people seem to find that acceptable but I do not. You can call me a dinosaur or whatever you want, but if something still works, I don’t want to throw it away in favour of the next shiny new thing. It would also be very useful to be able to carry a spare charged battery. I still think this is a deliberate policy by manufacturers to create premature obsolescence, but I think they are missing a trick: I think lots of people have been caught out by non-replaceable batteries and are getting fed up with it. No doubt the debate will continue, but I shall continue my search for a more sustainable device.

New to Forum so this may have been answered before but I’ve read this thread through and this brings up my question since buying my Sansa Fuze about three months ago.  With this type of battery how low should you let the power go before charging?  I know with some types of batteries it is better for the life of the battery to wait until it is pretty low before charging.  Is that the case here?  Thanks for your help and I have to tell you I am really happy with my Sansa Fuze I use it for audio books and have transfer 4 so far without any issues with the transfer or listening.  I love it. 

Patty -

Your Fuze’s battery prefers frequent top-offs with an occasional ‘tall drink of water’. Don’t run it down to the red zone every time. If you’re like most new user’s, you will be plugging it into your computer quite often to add new music to it, so it will take ‘small sips’ of power at the same time. :smiley:

Tnanks Tapeworm and you do know your new users don’t you?!  That is exactly what is happening.  I am using my Fuze for audiobooks like I mentioned so everytime I transfer the book to my Fuze I am plugging it in.  I cringed everytime thinking am I doing something to harm it by plugging it in and unplugging for what I felt were short periods of time and now I’m finding out from you it is a good thing topping off the battery with some well needed power.  Thanks for the info and it will probably never get down to the red because of this.  :smiley:  Right back at you.  Take care, Patty

Check this out…  ·                    

batteries for about $15 on ebay    be careful with the little plastic clips and the ribbon wire to the lcd…   

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2008/03/sandisk-sansa-fuze-disassembly.php

“Your Fuze’s battery prefers frequent top-offs with an occasional ‘tall drink of water’. Don’t run it down to the red zone every time. If you’re like most new user’s, you will be plugging it into your computer quite often to add new music to it, so it will take ‘small sips’ of power at the same time.”

Oh…

And here I was thinking that it’s better to always let it empty itself completely before recharging it! :dizzy_face: Luckily I’ve only recently bought it so I’ve only recharged it one time so far, I’ll be sure to recharge it before it gets to 0% power next time, thanks!!!

So these new kinds of batteries don’t suffer the memory effect the older batteries had, that if you recharged them before they were completely empty they would more rapidly lose capacity?

Message Edited by doccolinni on 2010-04-10 07:05 AM

@doccolinni wrote:

And here I was thinking that it’s better to always let it empty itself completely before recharging it! :dizzy_face: Luckily I’ve only recently bought it so I’ve only recharged it one time so far, I’ll be sure to recharge it before it gets to 0% power next time, thanks!!!

 

I doubt that the Fuze electronic would let the battery go down to 0% power, because rechargeable batteries usually don’t like to be totally discharged. And what they actually hate is to be lie about almost empty and be drained by doing nothing, instead they like to work on a regular basis. But of course I am not a professional electronic specialist. I only know that when my power hungry camcorder puts out the empty signal, the replaceable batteries are still about half full and can power up other equipment for quite a while. Someone told me that charging electronics today is intelligent and able to learn, so to fully charge battery powered equipment and then let it be discharged to the empty signal for one or two cycles in the beginning gives it a chance to do its job optimally. Does the Fuze provide different working conditions to its battery?

What I have see with the latest firmware is that the battery meter seems to go down much faster then with earlier firmware… I confirmed this by downgrading the firmware long enough to confirm this…  With the latest firmware if the battery meter is down to 1/4 or a little less (still green) and I look under setting I have 49% battery left…  This is not a big deal but for some users one may think that there battery is getting weak do to use or age, when it’s really not! George

@doccolinni wrote:

So these new kinds of batteries don’t suffer the memory effect the older batteries had, that if you recharged them before they were completely empty they would more rapidly lose capacity?

No, those were NiCad rechargables that were most common 20+ years ago, and to a lesser extent, NiMH batteries like those in power tool packs (although even some power tools are now using Li-ion packs).  Battery memory effect is, for the most part, a thing of the somewhat distant past.  Certainly nothing you have to worry about with modern portable electronic device like a DAP or cell phone.  The best thing to do with modern devices is to just charge them when you’re not using them, and don’t worry about the battery.