Sansa Clip Firmware Update

Actually, I find this whole issue very amusing. I’m having a blast with it!

Thanks for the opening argument Perry. I’d like to call up Hamilton Berger for the defense.

<GRIN> This is a real nailbiter of an episode!

BTW Perry, your services are needed over at the View Forum. View buyers are the ones who really got burned.

Message Edited by 14124all on 10-11-2009 11:31 AM

easily amused indeed… maybe you’re spending a little toooo much time here or perhaps this is simply your way of over compensation? :wink:

Message Edited by hakujin on 10-11-2009 12:05 PM

Yep,nope,maybe. Just looking at the funny side of an issue that I (and many others) feel is no big deal.

I’ve just been through and converted my entire MP3 collection to 48KHz. Problem solved.

Seriously, what’s so hard about doing that? Why are so many people digging their claws in and threatening to buy another player/brand etc?I really doubt Sandisk will care if you do this. All you’re doing it costing yourself money, or risking making an a** of yourself by insisting that you get a refund for having been sold a ‘fundamentally flawed player’. I highly doubt your average salesman at any electronics store would have a clue what you’re talking about.

Business seldom rewards those who use an older product and always prefers customers to be using the latest model. I see no reason why MP3 players should be any different. Personally, I don’t particularly like this model of working, but I can see why it has prevailed.

By converting my MP3s from 44KHz to 48KHz I probably have endured a slight loss in audio quality. Can I hear it? No. It is as noticeable as the slow-down? No.

Besides, if it’s a big deal I’ll just re-rip the important albums off CD again. Work, yes. But it costs me as much money as a new firmware download, and a heck of a lot less than a new player.

@greaneyr wrote:

I’ve just been through and converted my entire MP3 collection to 48KHz. Problem solved.

 

Seriously, what’s so hard about doing that? Why are so many people digging their claws in and threatening to buy another player/brand etc?I really doubt Sandisk will care if you do this. All you’re doing it costing yourself money, or risking making an a** of yourself by insisting that you get a refund for having been sold a ‘fundamentally flawed player’. I highly doubt your average salesman at any electronics store would have a clue what you’re talking about.

 

Business seldom rewards those who use an older product and always prefers customers to be using the latest model. I see no reason why MP3 players should be any different. Personally, I don’t particularly like this model of working, but I can see why it has prevailed.

 

By converting my MP3s from 44KHz to 48KHz I probably have endured a slight loss in audio quality. Can I hear it? No. It is as noticeable as the slow-down? No.

Besides, if it’s a big deal I’ll just re-rip the important albums off CD again. Work, yes. But it costs me as much money as a new firmware download, and a heck of a lot less than a new player.

If you call that fixing your problem, o.k. I call it unecessarily resampling a collectiona and degrading audio quality. Heck of a lot less than a new player? Hardly, these players are relatively cheap and the hours that would be required to re-rip my collection would be obscenely asinine. Honestly, if it bothered me, I’d just purchase a new player before something so drastic. But maybe you have small collection… anyway I digress. I suggested a refund in the context of a very specific and credible reason, in the context of the law. I doubt an average salesman would have a clue either, but why are you putting down the salesman? You’re basically just saying that salesman are ignorant to the issue. Ummm… o.k.,  we agree. Point?

I believe it’s o.k. to feel wronged, particularly if you purchased this device with the presumption that this problem would be solved. And there is recourse if you did, but it required a little bit of work. Heck, I bet for these people, a simple letter to SanDisk customer relations along with a complaint to the BBB would provide an adequate solution.

@14124all wrote:

Actually, I find this whole issue very amusing. I’m having a blast with it!

Yea, it is rather amusing.  I haven’t participated much here in the last several months, and this useless debate is still going on.  I love all the “engineers” with “perfect ears” that insist a sub-$100 device should have the same technical quality as audio gear costing thousands of times more.  But hey, let them do their “scientific” tests which, while interesting to a small degree, serve no purpose but to prove their total lack of a meaningful life.  I don’t recall Sandisk ever guaranteeing the accuracy of the speed/pitch of anything, much less every possible combination of ripping conditions.  Let them sue, though, and line the pockets of more attorneys and clog up the legal system with yet another frivilous lawsuit.  Oh, but right, it’s the principle of the whole thing, isn’t it?  Amazing.

As for me, I got over the “wow” factor of any Sansa player long ago, and moved on to other brands.  I only came back recently to find out if there’s updated Fuze firmware so I can sell it off.  If they make a 16GB Clip+, I may look into it, but I won’t cry if they don’t.  And I certainly won’t sue if it plays .01% too slow.

Actually, people haven’t been asking for the audio quality of a mega-$100 player; from what people have said, a more accurate pitch is pretty common.

I think what has gotten to some people is that:  SanDisk had said a couple of times that a fix was coming and is do-able; but a fix hasn’t been done, I guess for business reasons (and, I would guess, the emergence of the Clip+).   In one sense, the fact that SanDisk was issuing regular firmware upgrades, which really has been great and appreciated, fueled the disappointment, along with the quality and success of the Clip. 

Me, I keep hoping that an engineer has a few spare days over the next couple of months and does a final Clip firmware upgrade, getting the Clip up to its brother/sister the Plus.  I’ve already offered to buy and bring the engineer lunch.

:wink:

@jkj1962 wrote:


@14124all wrote:

Actually, I find this whole issue very amusing. I’m having a blast with it!


Yea, it is rather amusing.  I haven’t participated much here in the last several months, and this useless debate is still going on.  I love all the “engineers” with “perfect ears” that insist a sub-$100 device should have the same technical quality as audio gear costing thousands of times more.  But hey, let them do their “scientific” tests which, while interesting to a small degree, serve no purpose but to prove their total lack of a meaningful life.  I don’t recall Sandisk ever guaranteeing the accuracy of the speed/pitch of anything, much less every possible combination of ripping conditions.  Let them sue, though, and line the pockets of more attorneys and clog up the legal system with yet another frivilous lawsuit.  Oh, but right, it’s the principle of the whole thing, isn’t it?  Amazing.

 

As for me, I got over the “wow” factor of any Sansa player long ago, and moved on to other brands.  I only came back recently to find out if there’s updated Fuze firmware so I can sell it off.  If they make a 16GB Clip+, I may look into it, but I won’t cry if they don’t.  And I certainly won’t sue if it plays .01% too slow.

exactly what milkerman said and to add, why must you resort to ad hominem as the basis of your retort? it’s quite sad. Between that and your baseless conjecture, you haven’t really added much… but I reckon you already know that.

@miikerman wrote:

Actually, people haven’t been asking for the audio quality of a mega-$100 player; from what people have said, a more accurate pitch is pretty common.

 

I think what has gotten to some people is that:  SanDisk had said a couple of times that a fix was coming and is do-able; but a fix hasn’t been done, I guess for business reasons (and, I would guess, the emergence of the Clip+).   In one sense, the fact that SanDisk was issuing regular firmware upgrades, which really has been great and appreciated, fueled the disappointment, along with the quality and success of the Clip. 

 

Me, I keep hoping that an engineer has a few spare days over the next couple of months and does a final Clip firmware upgrade, getting the Clip up to its brother/sister the Plus.  I’ve already offered to buy and bring the engineer lunch.

 

:wink:

I didn’t say “audio quality”, I said “technical quality”, of which “accurate pitch” is a part.  And from what I’ve seen of the test results, it’s fairly accurate, although I guess that’s subjective depending on one’s level of **bleep** retentiveness.

I used to be a strong supporter of Sandisk, but they just seem to have too many “fails” for me to continue doing so.  Their Sansa products seem to be of lesser technical quality than other brands.  I have owned several, and have either sold or given most of them away because of this.  They may “fix” the Clip, but being that I’m no engineer, pretend or otherwise, I won’t even try to say if it’s possible or not.

jkj1962 wrote: 

  I love all the “engineers”

What’s with the quotations around the word “engineers” (appropriate here because I’m referencing a word from your post) anyway?

insist a sub-$100 device should have the same technical quality as audio gear costing thousands of times more.

Or maybe just every other digital player I own… none costing thousands of times more.

I don’t recall Sandisk ever guaranteeing the accuracy of the speed/pitch of anything, much less every possible combination of ripping conditions.

Most of us are talking about the one condition, 44 kHz sampling frequency, that covers 99% of music files.

(re clip+)And I certainly won’t sue if it plays .01% too slow.

So you won’t sue if it’s 70 times closer than the original clip? Most people complaining about pitch would be happy with that too!

I think most would be happy if Sansa does whatever improvement is possible in a firmware update.  That’s what updateable firmware is all about… you fix it once, and it is fixed for everybody (well, twice, given V1 and V2).

Message Edited by donp on 10-12-2009 03:56 PM

@miikerman wrote:

Actually, people haven’t been asking for the audio quality of a mega-$100 player; from what people have said, a more accurate pitch is pretty common.

 

I think what has gotten to some people is that:  SanDisk had said a couple of times that a fix was coming and is do-able; but a fix hasn’t been done, I guess for business reasons (and, I would guess, the emergence of the Clip+).   In one sense, the fact that SanDisk was issuing regular firmware upgrades, which really has been great and appreciated, fueled the disappointment, along with the quality and success of the Clip. 

 

Me, I keep hoping that an engineer has a few spare days over the next couple of months and does a final Clip firmware upgrade, getting the Clip up to its brother/sister the Plus.  I’ve already offered to buy and bring the engineer lunch.

 

:wink:

What Miikerman said.  I have an MSEE and over 20 years designing mixed signal ICs, so this engineer is qualified to critique Sandisk’s products.  When I compare them to other brands, they get a fundamental function wrong. Sue them for that?  Never entered my mind and it seems stupid at best to even mention it.  I just won’t bother buying any of their product in the future, that’s my solution.  It also tells me they’re lousy at engineering. 

When all of your competitors can do a fundamental thing correctly at LOWER price points and you can’t, your design is flawed, plain and simple.  When I do my chip designs I test and fix anything I can on it, and that includes parameters and functionality that is never on the data sheet.  Sandisk fell flat in that regard; that’s a mark of slipshod design or newbies doing the design.  I can understand not having exactly accurate timing, but for crying out loud, to be so far off the mark with the most common MP3 sampling rate is just poor design.

Example: say you just bought a watch for $100.  The stop-watch function is dead accurate but the watch gains 1 min/day.  A competitor sells a watch that does just is a basic watch, accurate to < 1 sec/day, but for $25.  Who’s got the better product?  I say the guy with the $25 watch as he does the main function right.  That’s how I see Clip, nifty features but flubs a fundamental function.

An interesting take on the issue by Cnet, and the comments to the article.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12519\_7-10370212-49.html#comments

Finally, some sense.

@yelped wrote:
Finally, some sense.

 As with the wiki article, it was just a case of taking what was here and pasting it somewhere else.  

 I’m starting to think the “engineering decision” might be that the guy who did the fix for Fuze and Clip+ no longer works for Sansa.

donp wrote: 

 I’m starting to think the “engineering decision” might be that the guy who did the fix for Fuze and Clip+ no longer works for Sansa.

 

That’s true, slotmonsta posted that sansafix no longer works at SanDisk, unfortunately. Sansafix also stated so.

@yelped wrote:


donp wrote: 

 I’m starting to think the “engineering decision” might be that the guy who did the fix for Fuze and Clip+ no longer works for Sansa.

 


That’s true, slotmonsta posted that sansafix no longer works at SanDisk, unfortunately. Sansafix also stated so.

Which could bring up the question , why does he no longer work for Sansa?I always got the impression that Sansafix really wanted to improve the devices…so did some cost-cutting “suit” decide he had to go?  Or did he get disgusted by what the “suits” were doing and leave ? 

Things that make you go hmmmm…

Would you believe the clowns that run this board banned me from here?!

They didn’t deliete my posts

They didnt’ erase my account 

They didn’t send me a message

They didn’t close this thread (although this would be the most appropriate since they’ve all but abandoned their product!).

They just outright BANNED me. And not just cookie band mind, you… but by IP. 

One mention of lawsuit and ohh no, they act like a bunch of children. How trite and petulant… what is this SanDisk, the Iron Curtain or the Gestapo? 

To Moderator,

When I first mentioned promissory estoppel, it was to inform those that feel they have been wronged by your company (and for good reason). I had NO intention on filing any judicial action related to your craptacular mp3 player. Not because of lawyers, legal fees etc. As I’m sure you’ve probably already gleaned ‘legal aid’ won’t be costing me anything.

However, your brazen attitude and singular (but unspoken) actions have caused me to think twice and reconsider. Frankly, I’m in disbellief that you are so petty as to treat me in this immature and very unfriendly fashion. Is this how you treat all your customers that get out of line?

I see that you U.S. HQ is located in Milipitas, CA. Interestingly enough I am moving to San Jose next year and the Statute of Limitations for oral contracts is 2 years, and 4 for written out there. Ergo, I’ll be seeing you unscrupulous individuals real soon. Of course, you could have already mitigated this by a simple half day’s work and a new fw, but your company is ostensibly ‘ghetto’. Ciao!

-Former SanDisk customer

p.s. To the dude that banned me: you are not the sharpest tool in the shed if you think an IP ban is an effective means of preventing me (or frankly anyone) from a followup on this board. Muwhaahahahhahhahaahahahahh! 

Message Edited by hakujinreborn on 10-14-2009 04:36 PM

why do posts keep getting deleted?apparently they deleted the user account which was complaining about the firmware issue and

I just saw:

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To Moderator,

When I first mentioned promissory estoppel, it was to inform those that feel they have been wronged by your company (and for good reason). I had NO intention on filing any judicial action related to your craptacular mp3 player. Not because of lawyers, legal fees etc. As I’m sure you’ve probably already gleaned ‘legal aid’ won’t be costing me anything.

However, your brazen attitude and singular (but unspoken) actions have caused me to think twice and reconsider. Frankly, I’m in disbellief that you are so petty as to treat me in this immature and very unfriendly fashion. Is this how you treat all your customers that get out of line?

I see that you U.S. HQ is located in Milipitas, CA. Interestingly enough I am moving to San Jose next year and the Statute of Limitations for oral contracts is 2 years, and 4 for written out there. Ergo, I’ll be seeing you unscrupulous individuals real soon. Of course, you could have already mitigated this by a simple half day’s work and a new fw, but your company is ostensibly ‘ghetto’. Ciao!

-Former SanDisk customer

p.s. You are not the sharpest tool in the shed if you think an IP ban is an effective means of preventing me from a followup on this board. Muwhaahahahhahhahaahahahahh!

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

But now it’s gone – POOF. Also, why did SanDisk ban hakujin’s account for? These are scary times we live in…

@marvin_martian wrote:


@yelped wrote:


donp wrote: 

 I’m starting to think the “engineering decision” might be that the guy who did the fix for Fuze and Clip+ no longer works for Sansa.

 


That’s true, slotmonsta posted that sansafix no longer works at SanDisk, unfortunately. Sansafix also stated so.


Which could bring up the question , why does he no longer work for Sansa?I always got the impression that Sansafix really wanted to improve the devices…so did some cost-cutting “suit” decide he had to go?  Or did he get disgusted by what the “suits” were doing and leave ? 

Things that make you go hmmmm…

Cost-cutting executive. If he was disgusted he wouldn’t have come back and post, and slotmonsta wouldn’t have mentioned his name. Sandisk Stock You see their Income level? Do you understand a little? Overall, 1,500 employees were cut about 2 quarters ago, most from the flash business, where the entire industry is losing big money, aside from SSDs.