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SanDisk Guru
Posts: 1,581
Registered: ‎11-26-2008

Re: Pitch bug on Clip+?

All of this ink for a lowly 'ol media player.

 

You can believe what you want, I will do the same.  No one will make me change my mind and it's af little consequence....because there are a ton of more important things to worry about than a potential flaw in a product.

 

I see it now......you'll be on your deathbed and instead of being concerned about meeting your maker, you'll be worried about the pitch issue in a media player....

 

 

Carry on........

"Before I sink into the big sleep...I want to hear the scream of the Butterfly"
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SanDisk Guru
Posts: 1,581
Registered: ‎11-26-2008

Re: Pitch bug on Clip+?


@wavydavy wrote:

The pitch problem on the Clip has not been improved by any firmware released so far.

Is there any reason to think that problems with the Clip + will be handled any better?

The extra length of time the tracks play is of no concern to me, that is just a side affect of the fact that the songs are being played back at the wrong pitch.

Playing back music off pitch/out of tune bothers me a lot because I am a musician used to hearing things at proper pitch.

There is a reason musicians "tune up" before a performance.

While it is understood that most clip users are unsophisticated consumers that are not musicians or engineers,

there is also a vocal minority who are, and expect consumer products like the Clip to operate within reasonable tolerances.

Like playing back the music at the correct speed and pitch.

We are trying to keep the company honest for everyones benefit.

Basic.

They should fix this with a firmware update.

No excuses.

It's that simple.

 

Any one who complains about some one else trying to get a problem resolved on the forum, is a troll or doesn't understand the concept.

Either help or get out of the way.

Message Edited by wavydavy on 09-03-2009 01:56 PM

I can appreciate that as I'm a musician too.  But, on the same token....just because it should be fixed doesn't mean it will.

"Before I sink into the big sleep...I want to hear the scream of the Butterfly"
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SanDisk Guru
Posts: 8,152
Registered: ‎12-11-2007

Re: Pitch bug on Clip+?

[ Edited ]

@fuze_owner-GB wrote:

@Miikerman wrote:

And so, I ask politely, where is "the next firmware release due out this quarter"?  It's been more than 2 quarters since ...

 

Info. from SanDisk would be appreciated.


No offense, but isn't it a bit early for a new firmware for the clip+?

Message Edited by fuze_owner-GB on 09-03-2009 04:35 PM

LOL--certainly (I mean, the Clip+ doesn't officially come out until mid-month!).  The above was in reference to the original Clip, with SanDisk noting new firmware for the quarter over 6 months ago ...

Message Edited by Miikerman on 09-03-2009 05:54 PM
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SanDisk Guru
Posts: 1,581
Registered: ‎11-26-2008

Re: Pitch bug on Clip+?


@Miikerman wrote:

@fuze_owner-GB wrote:

@Miikerman wrote:

And so, I ask politely, where is "the next firmware release due out this quarter"?  It's been more than 2 quarters since ...

 

Info. from SanDisk would be appreciated.


No offense, but isn't it a bit early for a new firmware for the clip+?

Message Edited by fuze_owner-GB on 09-03-2009 04:35 PM

Lol--certainly (I mean, the Clip+ doesn't officially come out until mid-month!).  The above was in reference to the original Clip, with SanDisk noting new firmware for the quarter over 6 motnhs ago ...


I know..... I was just poking a little fun.....Smiley Very Happy

"Before I sink into the big sleep...I want to hear the scream of the Butterfly"
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SanDisk Guru
Posts: 8,152
Registered: ‎12-11-2007

Re: Pitch bug on Clip+?

Smiley Happy

 

As you've seen, some already have asked about new Clip+ firmware!  Actually, that's not fair of me:  as new users, they've just tried to make sure they have the latest firmware, as one always should do with a new product using software.

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SanDisk User
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎03-08-2008

Re: Pitch bug on Clip+?

Has any one tested the Clip + to verify weather or not the pitch problem has been fixed for any/all formats and sample rates.

 

Here is why that is such an important question.......

 

Let me explain in more detail.

Speed and time are related in music playback because when you play music at a faster speed, the song ends sooner and sounds as though it is being played at a higher pitch. (for an extreme example, think Alvin and the Chipmunks).

 

When a musical instrument is tuned up, it is done to an international standard reference.

for example the note A should be exactly 440 Hz.

The reason for this is so all musicians can play their instruments together wherever they travel, and have them sound good together (in tune with each other).

 

Thus, all properly recorded music played back at the correct pitch/speed should have the music be in tune (at the proper pitch) with any other properly tuned instruments.

 

The Clip plays back music at the wrong pitch/speed so that it is noticeably out of tune when compared to original recording played back on any other equipment.

This is most noticeable to people like me with critical listening skills, who play a musical instrument along with the music from the clip.

Jamming with the music coming from the clip is like playing two instruments that are out of tune with each other  :smileysad:

Unfortunately it is impractical to retune instruments to match them to the Clip, especially instruments like the piano. This also would require you to retune again for normal playing.

 

The reason the problem has gone unnoticed by most people is, that they would not normally play the Clip in an environment where they could also hear the correct version at the same time to compare to, and they don't play a musical instrument along with it, to compare to.

 

So you see that it is not the change in playback time that bothers me, as much as the "off pitch/out of tune with the rest of the world" problem which is unacceptable to me and which could be fixed by Sansa with a firmware update.

No other portable Mp3 or CD player I'm aware of has this problem, and I have had quite a few over the years.

 

I hope this explanation helps non musicians appreciate how serious this problem is for us, and why we are so vocal about it.

 

After all, We are the people who make the music you might like to enjoy listening to on your Clip.

Throw us a bone :smileywink:

 

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SanDisk Guru
Posts: 5,822
Registered: ‎12-26-2007

Re: Pitch bug on Clip+?

I have found that the pitch issue with the earlier devices is less irritable when dealing with gravitational variations and wormholes.  I'm used to little pitch variations, though my rapidly advancing grey, my wife assures me, is probably more affected by long term radiation exposure than speed.

 

Sansafix tinkered with the available timing multipliers for the Sansa's processor, and found a happy medium, after it was pointed out here on the forums.  Getting the change incorporated into all of the AMS device families most likely involves more steps, as other updates fall into line for each model, and the requisite testing / approval process.

 

The new Clip Plus has been one of those additional families, we now see.  I'd bet that they can now concentrate on the base Clip, in both revisions.  Lots of wee hurdles to handle.

 

I am confident that the timing will be corrected on the existing Clips, especially since a working change has been tested.  Don't forget that projects and priorities happen in the background, evidenced by the latest new toy!

 

Bob  Smiley Very Happy

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SanDisk User
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎03-08-2008

Re: Pitch bug on Clip+?

And an occasional (monthly, every other month) word from Sansa firmware development team, about progress, delays, or changes in priority, is forbidden, why?
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SanDisk Guru
Posts: 1,669
Registered: ‎10-07-2007

Re: Pitch bug on Clip+?


@wavydavy wrote:
And an occasional (monthly, every other month) word from Sansa firmware development team, about progress, delays, or changes in priority, is forbidden, why?

 

It's not uncommon for companies to have policies controlling the sharing of this kind of information in user forums.  What SanDisk's exact policies are, we don't know.
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Newbie
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎09-04-2009

Re: Pitch bug on Clip+?

[ Edited ]

Well, for anyone interested here's my quantified pitch results. All are taken from the headphone out of each respective player to the analog in of my soundcard (Audigy 2 ZS Notebook). Feel free to try and replicate my results using the setup I'll list below.

 

Two files, a 445hz tone and a 1000hz tone, both MP3 and FLAC tested, encoded with and without replaygain, were played on the following devices. Results are:

 

445hz

Dell D630c (laptop) - plays 445.01hz

Sansa E200           - plays 445.18hz

Rio Karma              - Plays 445.21hz

Sansa Clip+           - plays 446.10hz

 

1000hz

Dell D630c (laptop) - plays 1000.02hz

Sansa E200           - plays 1000.39hz

Rio Karma             - plays 1000.48hz

Sansa Clip+           - plays 1002.47hz

 

That gives Sansa clip a pitch error of 0.247%, compared to the next player (Rio Karma) at 0.048%.

----------------------------------------

 

Setup

1.)Here's the software setup: Plogue Bidule + VST Plugin Gtune, WAV tones created using NCH Tone Gen, then encoded via FLAC

2.) In NCH I created continuous, stereo tones for 30 seconds. You can then save the files as WAV and ecode them using the FLAC front-end app.

 

3.)In bidule, make sure you've copied the gtune vst plugin to the vst plugin directory (program files\plogue\bidule\vst plugins). When it loads, you'll need to 1). Remove any sound input/outputs, 2.) Add a duplex audio device, and 3.) Add the gtune vst plugin. This can all be done by right clicking in bidule and accessing the menu that pops-up. Then it's just a matter of connecting each device as shown here, and making sure bidule is processing (there's an 'on' or 'off' indicator in the top menu of bidule).

 

4.)Double-clicking on the 'gtune' vst plugin that you addded, brings up it's processing window. When you play the headphone output into your soundcard, granted you've setup everything, you should get something like this. You can also double-click on the mixer and make sure you're getting a signal.

 

 

*And if you're wondering, I'm returning my clip+ to BB tomorrow.

 

Message Edited by schnarky42 on 09-04-2009 04:35 AM
Message Edited by schnarky42 on 09-04-2009 04:40 AM