Pitch bug on Clip+?

So don’t buy Sansa stuff anymore if it bothers you that much.

I think this is much ado about nothing, especially since there is a work around for the problem if it truly bothers you that much (48000).

I’m not an engineer, but shouldn’t this just be something that SanDisk gets done correctly, without people having to use workarounds?  Is this an issue with other players as well?  Frankly, I’ve never heard of this as an issue before.

Seems odd that that the same 3 or 4 people keep harping about the pitch issue.  I’m not saying it didn’t/doesn’t exist, but the intensity of their posts almost makes me believe they are here soley to tarnish the reputation of Sandisk.

The solution is simple.  If the product (any product) doesn’t suit your needs, return it.  If enough people do that due to a design flaw (I’m not saying there is one with the clip+) the manufacturer will get the message loud and clear.

Posting in a user forum isn’t going to make your perceived issue go away; or make the manufacturer react to your complaints.

@fuze_owner_gb wrote:

Seems odd that that the same 3 or 4 people keep harping about the pitch issue. 

 

 

Seems the same 1 or 2 people keep acting as apologist, that it isn’t reasonable to expect consumer grade gear to get the speed/pitch right even though the vast majority of inexpensive players do.

The solution is simple.  If the product (any product) doesn’t suit your needs, return it.  If enough people do that due to a design flaw (I’m not saying there is one with the clip+) the manufacturer will get the message loud and clear.

 

 

 

The mfr may have numbers on how many are returned, but for players bought and returned to retail or mail order outfits there’s usually a broken chain when it comes to the reason why.

 

Posting in a user forum isn’t going to make your perceived issue go away; or make the manufacturer react to your complaints.  

 

Hmmm… didn’t one of the Sansa employees post that they’d figured out the problem and had a fix? (maybe that was just for Fuze.)   Didn’t that all stem from discussion of the problem in the user forum?

 

 

@donp wrote:


@fuze_owner_gb wrote:

Seems odd that that the same 3 or 4 people keep harping about the pitch issue. 

 

 

 

 

Seems the same 1 or 2 people keep acting as apologist, that it isn’t reasonable to expect consumer grade gear to get the speed/pitch right even though the vast majority of inexpensive players do.

 

 

 

The solution is simple.  If the product (any product) doesn’t suit your needs, return it.  If enough people do that due to a design flaw (I’m not saying there is one with the clip+) the manufacturer will get the message loud and clear.

 

 

 

The mfr may have numbers on how many are returned, but for players bought and returned to retail or mail order outfits there’s usually a broken chain when it comes to the reason why.

 

 

 

Posting in a user forum isn’t going to make your perceived issue go away; or make the manufacturer react to your complaints.  


 

Hmmm… didn’t one of the Sansa employees post that they’d figured out the problem and had a fix? (maybe that was just for Fuze.)   Didn’t that all stem from discussion of the problem in the user forum?

 

 

 

I got some great swamp-land for sale if you think for a second that an issue was addressed solely based on disscussion in a user forum…:smileyvery-happy: :smileyvery-happy: :smileyvery-happy:

Man, this place has turned negative.  It used to be a fun place, but no more.  Just a bunch of crybabies whining about anything and everything.  At least I can get pleasure from my Sansa players…

Message Edited by fuze_owner-GB on 09-03-2009 02:42 PM

fuze_owner-GB wrote: 

 


I got some great swamp-land for sale if you think for a second that an issue was addressed solely based on disscussion in a user forum…:smileyvery-happy: :smileyvery-happy: :smileyvery-happy:

 

 

 That was back when sansa was a little more active in the forum.  WIth a response like:

 

" sansafix wrote: 

Hi, its a battery life tradeoff. Running higher PLL will degrade battery life 5 - 7%.

Issue is logged and we will look into it again as time permits."

And announcing it was fixed the next day:

"All,


Good news, We have reduced the pitch error by one order of magnitude with little to no effect on battery life (<3%). 

The optimization will be included in the next firmware release due out this quarter. 

We have optimized for 44Khz and the pitch error is < 0.14% 

For all other samples rates its <0.18%

Message Edited by sansafix on 02-19-2009 08:37 AM" 

Probably just a coincidence that the problem had existed for the life of the product, then they addressed it a couple of days after forum members posted quantitative measurements of the error and the  cause.

Yup…pure coincidence.

@fuze_owner_gb wrote:
Yup…pure coincidence.

  believe that and you might as well keep your swampland.

 

And so, I ask politely, where is “the next firmware release due out this quarter”?  It’s been more than 2 quarters since …

Info. from SanDisk would be appreciated.

@donp wrote:


@fuze_owner_gb wrote:
Yup…pure coincidence.


  believe that and you might as well keep your swampland.

 

 

Ha Ha Ha Ha…

I’ve worked at the design and manufacturing level.  I know how much they listen to the consumer.

Many here have a very false sense of self-importance.

@miikerman wrote:

And so, I ask politely, where is “the next firmware release due out this quarter”?  It’s been more than 2 quarters since …

 

Info. from SanDisk would be appreciated.

No offense, but isn’t it a bit early for a new firmware for the clip+?

Message Edited by fuze_owner-GB on 09-03-2009 04:35 PM

@miikerman wrote:

And so, I ask politely, where is “the next firmware release due out this quarter”?  It’s been more than 2 quarters since …

 

Info. from SanDisk would be appreciated.

How long after the Fuze release was it before they said there would be no more updates for the e200’s?  I think the answer could lie there.

The pitch problem on the Clip has not been improved by any firmware released so far.

Is there any reason to think that problems with the Clip + will be handled any better?

The extra length of time the tracks play is of no concern to me, that is just a side affect of the fact that the songs are being played back at the wrong pitch.

Playing back music off pitch/out of tune bothers me a lot because I am a musician used to hearing things at proper pitch.

There is a reason musicians “tune up” before a performance.

While it is understood that most clip users are unsophisticated consumers that are not musicians or engineers,

there is also a vocal minority who are, and expect consumer products like the Clip to operate within reasonable tolerances.

Like playing back the music at the correct speed and pitch.

We are trying to keep the company honest for everyones benefit.

Basic.

They should fix this with a firmware update.

No excuses.

It’s that simple.

Any one who complains about some one else trying to get a problem resolved on the forum, is a troll or doesn’t understand the concept.

Either help or get out of the way.

Message Edited by wavydavy on 09-03-2009 01:56 PM

fuze_owner-GB wrote: 

 


Ha Ha Ha Ha…

 

I’ve worked at the design and manufacturing level.  I know how much they listen to the consumer.

 

Many here have a very false sense of self-importance.

 Ha HA yourself… the product was out nearly a year with this problem, then 2-3 days after hard confirmation and the cause is posted on the forum they have it fixed.  Dream on that it wasn’t in response to the forum.  Perhaps it was a known problem that was back-burnered, but they did respond to the forum.

 

Most everyplace I’ve worked valid complaints get attention.  Some go way overboard, running around like beheaded chickens when people who aren’t going to buy a product anyway say they would if only it did xxxx.

All of this ink for a lowly 'ol media player.

You can believe what you want, I will do the same.  No one will make me change my mind and it’s af little consequence…because there are a ton of more important things to worry about than a potential flaw in a product.

I see it now…you’ll be on your deathbed and instead of being concerned about meeting your maker, you’ll be worried about the pitch issue in a media player…

Carry on…

@wavydavy wrote:

The pitch problem on the Clip has not been improved by any firmware released so far.

Is there any reason to think that problems with the Clip + will be handled any better?

The extra length of time the tracks play is of no concern to me, that is just a side affect of the fact that the songs are being played back at the wrong pitch.

Playing back music off pitch/out of tune bothers me a lot because I am a musician used to hearing things at proper pitch.

There is a reason musicians “tune up” before a performance.

While it is understood that most clip users are unsophisticated consumers that are not musicians or engineers,

there is also a vocal minority who are, and expect consumer products like the Clip to operate within reasonable tolerances.

Like playing back the music at the correct speed and pitch.

We are trying to keep the company honest for everyones benefit.

Basic.

They should fix this with a firmware update.

No excuses.

It’s that simple.

 

Any one who complains about some one else trying to get a problem resolved on the forum, is a troll or doesn’t understand the concept.

Either help or get out of the way.

Message Edited by wavydavy on 09-03-2009 01:56 PM

I can appreciate that as I’m a musician too.  But, on the same token…just because it should be fixed doesn’t mean it will.

@fuze_owner_gb wrote:


@miikerman wrote:

And so, I ask politely, where is “the next firmware release due out this quarter”?  It’s been more than 2 quarters since …

 

Info. from SanDisk would be appreciated.


No offense, but isn’t it a bit early for a new firmware for the clip+?

Message Edited by fuze_owner-GB on 09-03-2009 04:35 PM

LOL–certainly (I mean, the Clip+ doesn’t officially come out until mid-month!).  The above was in reference to the original Clip, with SanDisk noting new firmware for the quarter over 6 months ago …

Message Edited by Miikerman on 09-03-2009 05:54 PM

@miikerman wrote:


@fuze_owner_gb wrote:


@miikerman wrote:

And so, I ask politely, where is “the next firmware release due out this quarter”?  It’s been more than 2 quarters since …

 

Info. from SanDisk would be appreciated.


No offense, but isn’t it a bit early for a new firmware for the clip+?

Message Edited by fuze_owner-GB on 09-03-2009 04:35 PM


Lol–certainly (I mean, the Clip+ doesn’t officially come out until mid-month!).  The above was in reference to the original Clip, with SanDisk noting new firmware for the quarter over 6 motnhs ago …

I know… I was just poking a little fun…:smileyvery-happy:

:slight_smile:

As you’ve seen, some already have asked about new Clip+ firmware!  Actually, that’s not fair of me:  as new users, they’ve just tried to make sure they have the latest firmware, as one always should do with a new product using software.

Has any one tested the Clip + to verify weather or not the pitch problem has been fixed for any/all formats and sample rates.

Here is why that is such an important question…

Let me explain in more detail.

Speed and time are related in music playback because when you play music at a faster speed, the song ends sooner and sounds as though it is being played at a higher pitch. (for an extreme example, think Alvin and the Chipmunks).

When a musical instrument is tuned up, it is done to an international standard reference.

for example the note A should be exactly 440 Hz.

The reason for this is so all musicians can play their instruments together wherever they travel, and have them sound good together (in tune with each other).

Thus, all properly recorded music played back at the correct pitch/speed should have the music be in tune (at the proper pitch) with any other properly tuned instruments.

The Clip plays back music at the wrong pitch/speed so that it is noticeably out of tune when compared to original recording played back on any other equipment.

This is most noticeable to people like me with critical listening skills, who play a musical instrument along with the music from the clip.

Jamming with the music coming from the clip is like playing two instruments that are out of tune with each other  :cry:

Unfortunately it is impractical to retune instruments to match them to the Clip, especially instruments like the piano. This also would require you to retune again for normal playing.

The reason the problem has gone unnoticed by most people is, that they would not normally play the Clip in an environment where they could also hear the correct version at the same time to compare to, and they don’t play a musical instrument along with it, to compare to.

So you see that it is not the change in playback time that bothers me, as much as the “off pitch/out of tune with the rest of the world” problem which is unacceptable to me and which could be fixed by Sansa with a firmware update.

No other portable Mp3 or CD player I’m aware of has this problem, and I have had quite a few over the years.

I hope this explanation helps non musicians appreciate how serious this problem is for us, and why we are so vocal about it.

After all, We are the people who make the music you might like to enjoy listening to on your Clip.

Throw us a bone :wink: