Folders (Let me just say it again.)

Wow, thats the perfect sollution right there - thanks for your contribution!

Why didn’t anyone else think of that? Of course we should never use this community to suggest improvements for Sansa-products, we should just accept them as they are or buy something else…

“I feel obliged to think rather than to believe. And I think evolution endowed most of us with not only sense, reason and intellect, but also an ability to use irony. If you to have reached this step on the evolutionary ladder, you will understand my point above” - Dannej

I went through a stressful day and thought I’d relax by listening to an audiobook. Alas, the Clip starting playing track 23, instead of track 1. I tried using mp3tag. I tried using Winamp. I also checked the properties of each file directly. No mistake, nowhere I could see. I’ve spent more than one hour trying to solve the problem, ending even more stressed out than I was when I started. All of that because the Clip is unable to simply read folders and file names in alphabetical order.

I keep having problems with mp3 tags. Very often, it is a problem between tag versions, and sometimes it is a problem with no reason I can fathom. Usually, I can solve such problems with mp3tag, if only by erasing then renaming all the tags, but it always costs me time, from a little to an awful lot. To solve problems that wouldn’t even exist with a folder view.

The Clip has great sound. It also looks great. It is also, alas, the most annoying mp3 player I’ve ever used.

@promisedplanet wrote:

Whether SanDisk made the right decision about folder support (if that’s what they actually did), well, who knows.  But coming to the conclusion that “Sandisk programmers ■■■■ big time” seems kind of bizarre.  Especially given how amazingly responsive they are to users’ requests in this forum

 … except in regards to the one feature most requested by users in this forum: a folder view.

Most changes to the firmware have been correcting problems born from the use of mp3 tags; problems that wouldn’t exist with a folder view. While tag users are numerous enough to offer them a tag view, people who are happy using just folders are, I believe, even more numerous. I once asked my college students about how they listened to their mp3 files; all of them had a player, but NONE of them (not one out of forty-two) knew what a tag was. All of them, though, knew what a folder was, so when I read from someone in this thread that many computer novices may use WMP or iTune but not know what a folder is… well, I bet the contrary is more often true.

Message Edited by Sinocelt on 11-09-2008 05:04 AM

If you paid attention to the forums instead of whining incessantly, you would have searched for topics relating to this subject and came across where Sansafix said “There are no plans to implement folder view on this product.” Sorry bud, you should try doing research before you purchase something based on a trivial feature that isn’t even advertised. /edit: He didn’t say that exactly, but he did say there won’t be folder view: http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=clip&message.id=10160&query.id=88569#M10160

Message Edited by Aircraftkiller on 11-09-2008 02:56 PM

Aircraftguy:

If YOU paid attention to what the messages actually say in the forum, maybe you wouldn’t need to use such a whiny and aggressive tone in your messages… :slight_smile:

The question asked in the thread you refer to was if folder support was to be included in the latest firmware release (sept/oct 08).

The answer from Sansafix was “Sorry to dissapoint,  no folder view.”

You should really try actually reading the messages before you quote them!

Please forgive me for offending your delicate sensibilities over the internet. I offer my most sincere apologies for telling you to stop spamming the forum with your incessant whining. Clearly, your $39.99 to $69.99 is worth aggravating forum-goers with excessive folder view spam. And yes, I read the message and it’s pretty obvious from other sansafix replies that you won’t be getting your beloved folder view. Go buy another product and stop spamming, or start living in 2008 and try using tags.

@aircraftkiller wrote:
Please forgive me for offending your delicate sensibilities over the internet. I offer my most sincere apologies for telling you to stop spamming the forum with your incessant whining. Clearly, your $39.99 to $69.99 is worth aggravating forum-goers with excessive folder view spam. And yes, I read the message and it’s pretty obvious from other sansafix replies that you won’t be getting your beloved folder view. Go buy another product and stop spamming, or start living in 2008 and try using tags.

Can you (Aircraftkiller and the other pro-tag posters) please tell me why you keep referring to the request of folders as spam? I really cannot understand your point of view. It’s a simple request from a considerable number of clients. You’re acting as if you actually have to implement it yourself. If someone from SanDisk came out and said “Shut up people; there will be no folder view. Period” I would understand it. :smileyvery-happy: You, on the other hand, I cannot understand. Why so much hatred? This has turned into a religious issue. :stuck_out_tongue:

The first 2 MP3 players I bought had folder navigation.  They were also only 512MB. As you add more memory, and more songs, folder navigation becomes impossible.  You can get the same effect with tags.  I bet 99 percent of the people who use folders store the songs in folders with the artist name, then the album title.  Just use tags and on the Clip menu, under Music, select either artist or album.  Same difference.

If you can’t live with that, you are correct, it is a religious issue.  Would you go to a Catholic church and demand they read the scripture from a King James version of the Bible.  Likewise, if you want folder navigation, please go to another church. Oops, I should have said, buy an MP3 player that supports folders. You will never get folder support on the Clip, or I suspect on any Sandisk product, because folder support just isn’t worth it for devices with large memory.

Get off this thread? This thread is about FOLDERS! That’s why it’s HERE! " Let me say it again" I don’t know who started this thread, but it’s true! This Sansa thing is a rip-off and some people are pi88ed-off.

I was going to write a witty response to illustrate how ridiculous your arguments are, but it’s just easier to call you stupid.

I hereby humbly second the request to be able to browse by folders on the Sansa CLIP.

That is all.

It’s not going to happen, there isn’t enough memory on the device for it to search by folder and read ID3 tags. The majority of MP3s use tagging. Most CDs are tagged when you rip them. Why this is so difficult is beyond me - the amount of time spent bellyaching could be better used by tagging your MP3s and getting them put on the player. Amazing! 

@walt_n_florida wrote:

The first 2 MP3 players I bought had folder navigation.  They were also only 512MB. As you add more memory, and more songs, folder navigation becomes impossible.  You can get the same effect with tags.  I bet 99 percent of the people who use folders store the songs in folders with the artist name, then the album title.  Just use tags and on the Clip menu, under Music, select either artist or album.  Same difference.

 

If you can’t live with that, you are correct, it is a religious issue.  Would you go to a Catholic church and demand they read the scripture from a King James version of the Bible.  Likewise, if you want folder navigation, please go to another church. Oops, I should have said, buy an MP3 player that supports folders. You will never get folder support on the Clip, or I suspect on any Sandisk product, because folder support just isn’t worth it for devices with large memory.

The same tags vs. folders argument exists in databases, operating systems and other technonogies. You’re right about the increase of storage size making folders cumbersome, but why limit our options? Tags and folders are two different tools (neither is perfect) and people have different needs. More options will lead to broader acceptance, IMHO. I say “Live and let live!” :smiley:

I bougth a Sansa Clip 2Gb for my girlfriends sister this christmas. We just discovered that it has no support for folder-view.

I know that alot of people just love the “album, artist genre”-thing, but why exclude the folderview? Some people thinks that folders is way better than the other way.

It’s kinda hard to explain for a person that don’t know much about computers, what ID3-tags is and how they work. She (and I) just want to move files into folders and avoid messing with ID3-tags-programs.

If you put like 50 songs in a folder from different albums and artists, it is very annoying trying to listen to them.

I bet that if SanDisk removed the tagsupport, most of you who love tags would complain. On this forum.

@aircraftkiller wrote:
It’s not going to happen, there isn’t enough memory on the device for it to search by folder and read ID3 tags. The majority of MP3s use tagging. 

Not enough memory? Maybe on a clip(?) if they are really trying to cut the design close but I can’t see that argument on one with enough juice to play video. Back when a whole computer had 32kB of memory they had directory browsing, and now megabytes cost pennies.

I find selecting music by tag a nice feature, but when it doesn’t work it’s terrible. I’ve bought mp3 downloads that have tags that show up in some players but not others. If the tags aren’t readable, then the song is invisible to the player. If the track number tags don’t have leading zeroes, then some players will play track 10 between tracks 1 and 2 due to sorting them alphabetically instead of numerically.

That’s why a good application like MP3Tag is key, as it can rewrite the tags in ID3v2.3 ISO 8859-1 format in one step.

Bob  :wink:

My daughter just got a new Trekstore i.Beat MP4 player and guess what…it support folders! My girlfriends new Philips also support folders. I wonder how they manage this with low budget players. Perhaps MP3 player must not sound so good so it can support folders? Or is it that only in Europe can put a folder support to the firmware? Is there some federal law against folder support in the US?

i agree, SanDisk, you’re loosing money coz of tags only browsing in your players. Many ppl are’nt buying sansa players just because of that. Im thinking about buying something other (iRiver or Sony). But i love my Clip for sound.

Well; I also have 2G Clip and I thought how good it sounds. It sounds good on headphones. But yesterday I hooked my Clip to my amp and let it play through my loudspeakers. To my dissapointment it was lousy performer with normal EQ. Then I played with custom EQ settings till I get at least acceptable sound. The good news is that I am an audiophile so for average listener the sound will be good. But for more experience listeners the sound is far from excellent. I wish I could meet the reviewers who are raving how good the Clip sounds with EQ on normal. I’am not saying that other MP3 players perform better but the Clip is nothing special. I’m still listening the Clip with headphones but I’m seriously thinking to get one of new Sony players - they say they sound good but I must first listen to be sure if they realy sound good or it’s just some hysteria like with Clip.

My bet is they’re implementing folder support in secret right now. A tiny option hidden in the settings to drop that database and use folder browsing. Novice users would be excessively happy, as well as MSC lovers. Hopefully, no one would object cause in a simple and easy way they could turn back that option to use tags, database and all the machinery. On one hand, users could copy their music folder while keeping organization on the clip, on the other, others could carefully tag all their files and send them as they wish, and enjoy their favorite music after a more or less short database update.

ok, was dreaming. Sandisk might not be interested in implementing this feature, novice users would always need to ask a geek friend to learn how to manage music, MSC users would have to use tools to guess tags from filename, taking special attention to store them in the correct version and charset - dropping special characters in the process but eh, music has no price. People will continue complaining against users requesting a feature they don’t care about, but life is so boring when you don’t fight… Hopefully soon enough they will notice that audiobooks and podcasts support could have been the result of user request ; a minority of users i guess, but users who dont use those would never have complained cause in this case one’s happiness doesnt make other’s sadness.

And i dreamed…

Message Edited by cghislai on 01-03-2009 07:05 AM

Well, from what I’ve read, SanDisk is looking into folders, but it may be a question of space in which to implement this.

Having said that, Rockbox (alternative firmware) for the Clip (and Fuze) is getting closer and likely will be a released reality in the next few months, if I had to guess; some people already are using it as a pre-alpha or alpha.  Rockbox brings folders as well as gapless, plus many other features.