Folders (Let me just say it again.)

“with folder browsing alone” is the problem. The alone part implies that there is folder browsing to begin with.

My argument works off “what else could it be?”

  • It’s not like anyone “forgot” to support folders, because the device uses folders (for it’s own ends).
  • Somebody made a decision to prevent YOU from using folders. Why?
  • A patch would be simple but Sansa won’t do it. Why?
  • Sansa people know what we want, but won’t comment. Why?
  • Something must be preventing them. Why?

 To urge you to buy music pre-tagged with embedded serial numbers.

@eliasf wrote:


@promisedplanet wrote:
Nested playlists?


What do you mean?

How do you represent nested folders with your playlist generator?

@promisedplanet wrote:

How do you represent nested folders with your playlist generator?

I just put all the nested files in the parent’s playlist. Let’s say we have these folder:

\MUSIC
    \Artist 1
        \Album A
        \Album B
    \Artist 2
        \Album C
        \Album D

Normally, you’ll get 4 playlists ( “Album A”…“Album D” ). “MUSIC”, “Artist 1”, and “Artist 2” will not be created, unless there are some files in them.

Now, if you choose to “include subfolder files”, you’ll get:

  • the same 4 album playlists as before, plus:
  • an “Artist 1” playlist with all the files from Albums A and B
  • an “Artist 2” playlist with all the files from Albums C and D
  • a MUSIC playlist with all the files from all the folders

Message Edited by eliasf on 10-28-2008 02:59 PM

RussWill wrote:

To urge you to buy music pre-tagged with embedded serial numbers.

_________________________________________________________

Well; nobody will make me buy tagged music; at least not in this century…  :wink:

We have many ways to find music on the internet

and we have lots of ripping and tagging programs, so we can ripp and tag our own CD-s.

It is also easy to tag compilation CD-s and fit them in this tagging nonsense.

Still, it would be nice to have folders…

Sansa; I want folders…I want folders…I want folders…I want folders…!

Ah, yes, you’ve uncovered it.  SanDisk is part of the “vast right wing conspiracy”.

And I thought it was a simple matter of preference.  With folders, many issues pop up.  Playlists run into issues with a correct file path (many do not have experience with the basic MS-DOS file structure, as Windows has magically done things for them).

ID3 tags are part and parcel of the MP3 standard.  If you have an MP3 file, add the tag.  If you purchase, download from a vendor, rip from your CD collection, or a subscription service, those files will have the requisite metadata in the form of tags.  The only exception here is the Compact Disc, as an Internet connection is needed to pull the tag data from one of the available music databases.

MP3Tag does the trick for most users here, and it’s a free application.  Windows Media Player 11 has a tag editor, and there are many others.

Halloween is coming up.  Who remembers what happens when you toss the candy wrappers back in the bag with your candy?  Finding your candy becomes rather problematic in the clutter.  Folders can cause clutter in much the same way, making for a real hairball. 

ID3 tags allow the Sansa to automatically sort your music, making searches relatively trouble-free, and that is the ultimate goal.

P2P files without proper data are the digital equivalent of unwrapped candies, are they not?

Pounding on a manufacturer’s door, asking them to facilitate such things, is not in everyone’s best interest.  Nor is asking them to burden their tech support staff with the maelstrom of inevitable complaints about players that “don’t work”.  Don’t forget, not all users are in their forties, with the requisite common sense of experience.

Time to get those earbuds back on!

Bob  :smileyvery-happy:

@neutron_bob wrote:

 

Nor is asking them to burden their tech support staff with the maelstrom of inevitable complaints about players that “don’t work”. 

 

Thank you, Neutron.  Thank you.  I’ve always appreciated your posts of common sense.

Message Edited by PromisedPlanet on 10-28-2008 10:39 AM

ID3 tags are part and parcel of the MP3 standard.  If you have an MP3 file, add the tag.  If you purchase, download from a vendor, rip from your CD collection, or a subscription service, those files will have the requisite metadata in the form of tags.  The only exception here is the Compact Disc, as an Internet connection is needed to pull the tag data from one of the available music databases.

 

MP3Tag does the trick for most users here, and it’s a free application.  Windows Media Player 11 has a tag editor, and there are many others.

 

 

ID3 tags allow the Sansa to automatically sort your music, making searches relatively trouble-free, and that is the ultimate goal.

 

I think I have to add something from my experience. I have the entire CD collection of The Beatles: the original LPs, not the compilations. But I don’t have them all in the Clip all the time (well actually I do, but suppose I don’t for the sake of my example). Now, if I want to listen to a compilation (such as the ‘Red Album’, the ‘Blue Album’ or my own compilation), I just make a playlist with the indicated songs, tell WMP to transfer the playlist and voila!!: WMP will check which of the songs in the playlists are already in the clip, and will transfer only the ones that are not. No song will be duplicated.

How do you do that with folders? You can’t. The only way to do it is duplicating the songs.

The other way around: somebody has a bunch of songs within a folder that do not belong to the same artist or album in a folder. How can the folder be played in the Clip? easy: with playlists!! And before eliasf’s script, that could be done easily (though not automatically) with a number of programs (WMP, Winamp, MP3tag…).

Conclusion: There are things that can be done with playlists but not with folders. However, I can’t think of something that can be done with folders but not with playlists.

The only thing I miss in the tag-based sorting is a better handling of compilation albums (i’ve written a lot about it). I want support for the Album Artist tag!!!

Regards

When you consider the fact that there are many many mp3 players that don’t use folders, or don’t allow you to browse by folder, I don’t really understand why - if folders are the be all and end all for someone - people don’t check to see if it is supported.  I mean, if I want a radio, I look to see which have one.  If I want playlists (and I really do), I look to make sure they’re supported. 

In addition, if I happen to buy something that fundamentally does not work the way I expected it to work, I would return it.  I wouldn’t sit waiting for someone to implement something that was never promised and is not something you can expect on every mp3 player ever made.  They are under no obligation to fulfil this particular wish. 

Why repeatedly flood a board with the word “folders”.  It’s frustrating me… some of you really need to chill.  A few minutes with playlists and you would have it working the way you want.  In fact, a few less pointless posts and you would’ve had time to make about 5 times as many playlists as you would ever require.

"I know. I’m going for the “squeaky wheel” approach. “Fol-DERS! Fol-DERS!” Come on, everybody! “Fol-DERS!”


“I’m beating the dead horse because, as I said, I’m hoping the squeaky wheel will get a little grease on an upcoming firmware release.”


_ "FOLDERS PLEASE!!!  _"


“It’s not “odd”, it the NORMAL way of the computer world. We’ve been using FOLDERS for over 30 YEARS! What’s wrong with doing things the RIGHT way?”


"Folders Folders Folders Folders Folders Folders Folders Folders Folders Folders Folders Folders

FoLdErs FoLdErs FoLdErs FoLdErs FoLdErs FoLdErs FoLdErs FoLdErs FoLdErs FoLdErs FoLdErs

foldERS foldERS foldERS foldERS foldERS foldERS foldERS foldERS foldERS foldERS foldERS foldER

At least give me the choice! I mean, it is MY toy! Let my do it MY way! Fix the **bleep** PROGRAM!"


"I want folders!    I want folders!    I want folders!    I want folders!

Sansa, give us folder support. If you can’t do it, hire some capable programmers to do it for you."


I think there are several here who need a ‘time-out’!

I copied & pasted these quotes from this ‘never-ending’ thread to demonstrate how silly & childish some of you really sound! Expressing your opinions and wishes is one thing, but constantly harping on this issue in this juvenile way is not only counter-productive but most assuredly is not going to convince SanDisk to change their minds on the subject.

SanDisk has moved on . . . maybe it’s time you did to?

Message Edited by Tapeworm on 10-28-2008 02:40 PM

Tapeworm, I definitely agree with everything you just posted.  Unfortunately, Sandisk is partly to blame for this whining by recently adding the following to their home page:

 

(Note, not just “for discussions”, but “for questions”.  Sigh.)

Clicking on the link leads the clicker to these forums.  I think this has brought us a whole new set of forum participants who believe that this is some officially sanctioned medium for getting requests submitted to Sandisk.

Message Edited by PromisedPlanet on 10-28-2008 02:05 PM

I’m all for encouraging new Sansa owners to visit and/or join the forum, but the picture and included link do not say (or even imply) that any questions or discussions are directed to, or involved with any ‘official’ voice representing SanDisk.

And expressing one’s opinion and/or point of view is not a bad thing in itself; in fact the 1st Amendment guarantess all of us as citizens in this country this right,  but. . . the incessant p!ssing & moaning by the same few people in multiple threads over 1 subject that has already been said by a representative of SanDisk “probably isn’t going to happen” is definitely not ‘contibuting positively to the community’!

Actually the quote was, “Unfortunately,  implementation on the Clip is not easy due to its very limited memory space.” I read that as, “Sure, anything’s possible; someday pigs might fly too, but don’t hold your breath.”

There are some members here that have over 100 posts under their belts and their latest posts still echo of their 1st. Almost every ‘contribution’ they make, whether it is on subject or not, whether it is asked for or not; includes a re-hash of their wants & desires, and why can’t it be done; it would be so much better; others do it; it should be simple. All this negativity and wasted time, both for them in typing all this up and for all of the rest of us who have to wade through all this muck just to maybe find out something new or perhaps help someone who is having problems. Or just maybe to have an intelligent conversation and/or discussion about something positive or something that has a ‘snowball’s chance in He||’ of happening!

OK . . . We’ve heard you! . . . You’ve made you point! . . . May we please discuss something else now?

Whew . . . I feel so much better now. :smiley:

Message Edited by Tapeworm on 10-28-2008 03:08 PM

@tapeworm wrote:

I’m all for encouraging new Sansa owners to visit and/or join the forum, but the picture and included link do not say (or even imply) that any questions or discussions are directed to, or involved with any ‘official’ voice representing SanDisk.

 

And expressing one’s opinion and/or point of view is not a bad thing in itself; in fact the 1st Amendment guarantess all of us as citizens in this country this right,  but. . . the incessant p!ssing & moaning by the same few people in multiple threads over 1 subject that has already been said by a representative of SanDisk “isn’t going to happen” is definitely not ‘contibuting positively to the community’!

 

There are some members here that have over 100 posts under their belts and their latest posts still echo of their 1st. Almost every ‘contribution’ they make, whether it is on subject or not, whether it is asked for or not; includes a re-hash of their wants & desires, and why can’t it be done; it would be so much better; others do it; it should be simple. All this negativity and wasted time, both for them in typing all this up and for all of the rest of us who have to wade through all this muck just to maybe find out something new or perhaps help someone who is having problems. Or just maybe to have an intelligent conversation and/or discussion about something positive or something that has a ‘snowball’s chance in He||’ of happening!

 

OK . . . We’ve heard you! . . . You’ve made you point! . . . May we please discuss something else now?

 

Whew . . . I feel so much better now. :smiley:

Amen

I think the board administrators should add a sticky wishlist thread to each device-specific board.  Then if some clueless folks insist on demanding the same feature over and over again, at least we can direct them to that thread.

Hey folks, don’t you have something better to do than hang on this forum every day all day long. Go out, have some beer with your friends; find some chicks to have fun with or go to the gym, hit play on the Clip and lift some weights

@giltic wrote:

Hey folks, don’t you have something better to do than hang on this forum every day all day long. Go out, have some beer with your friends; find some chicks to have fun with or go to the gym, hit play on the Clip and lift some weights

Why? Did this strike a nerve?

No, not at all Tapeworm. I’m just having fun browsing this forum and share my ‘Clip joy’ with others.

I got the Clip because it has very good sound and it’s so small and I couldn’t find a store to stock Cowon arround here and

because I’m not really a Sony guy.

So I guess I’ll stay with the Clip - I am waiting for 4G Black version to appear in our stores.

By the way; I live in the EU and I’m tempted to order it from the USA. Do you know any good stores?

Got a problem with the lack of folder support? Save some cash and buy a Cowon D2, or even a T60 :wink: Heard that rockbox may be coming for the clip. That might just solve the problem. Tags ■■■■ monkey b***z, to say the least.

@actionboy wrote:

Tags ■■■■ monkey b***z, to say the least.

Nah, it just depends on how you use your player, where you acquire your audio, etc.

 

I get my music from ripped CDs, amazon.com, and the iTunes Store.  I’ve synced both my Sansa Clip and Sansa Connect with various music manager programs … WMP, MediaMonkey, Rhapsody etc.  I listen exclusively to music (no audio books etc.), and have no need to access a song by any other means than thru Artist, Album or Song Title.  I have no problems with tags, and no problems with a lack of folder support.

 

Different strokes, for different folks, and so on and so on and doobie doobie doobie.

‘‘Nah, it just depends on how you use your player, where you acquire your audio, etc.’’

________________________________________________________________________

Then give us an option !

If you want to use tags then use them - lucky you, Sansa gives this option.

I want to use folders - bad luck for me - no go with Sandisk players.

**bleep**; Clip is such a nice player; but with no folder option - Sandisk programmers ■■■■ big time - they just don’t know how to

incorporate folders it the firmware.

What other reason could it be? :wink:

@giltic wrote:

‘‘Nah, it just depends on how you use your player, where you acquire your audio, etc.’’

________________________________________________________________________

 

Then give us an option !

If you want to use tags then use them - lucky you, Sansa gives this option.

I want to use folders - bad luck for me - no go with Sandisk players.

**bleep**; Clip is such a nice player; but with no folder option - Sandisk programmers ■■■■ big time - they just don’t know how to

incorporate folders it the firmware.

What other reason could it be? :wink:

 

As Neutron_Bob so elegantly pointed out :wink: … giving users more functionality means more support calls, which means more $ spent by SanDisk.  It’s a trade-off, and my guess is that SanDisk weighed the cost of the additional support calls versus the potential increased sales from adding folder support.

Whereas SanDisk felt that adding MSC mode, for example, would be worth the additional support calls.  Yet take a gander at all the posts to this forum that are a result of the existence of MSC mode, and imagine how many of them would not have been posted if MSC mode hadn’t existed at all.

Whether SanDisk made the right decision about folder support (if that’s what they actually did), well, who knows.  But coming to the conclusion that “Sandisk programmers ■■■■ big time” seems kind of bizarre.  Especially given how amazingly responsive they are to users’ requests in this forum, and how solid the firmware releases have been to date.