4 gig clip brightness question

Miikerman wrote:

This issue largely goes away when one puts the Clip in a non-clear case (such as one of the silicone cases–I wouldn’t leave home without it, especially at $6.) 

 

You’ve actually tested this?

No, but I have my black 2gb Clip in the light blue silicone case, and even though the case is translucent, you can’t tell the Clip is black.  I would fully assume that it likewise would eliminate the reflectivity of the 4gb shell, apart from the display area (both for the good and the bad–that case is cool!).

I have my clip in the DLO action jacket armband and can attest that you still can’t see anything out from the 4 gig clip this way in any type of light.

http://www.amazon.com/DLO-002-6001-Action-Jacket-Sansa/dp/B0013HDE3Y/ref=sr\_1\_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1204842023&sr=1-4

Cool case!  But it has a clear face which allows the light to reflect back at you–I was referring to the silicone cases which won’t allow the Clip to reflect light back from the body of the player, apart from the display area.  And even with the silicone case, there still would be the more limited light output (currently!) caused by the reflective coating.

Cool case!  But it has a clear face which allows the light to reflect back at you–I was referring to the silicone cases which won’t allow the Clip to reflect light back from the body of the player, apart from the display area.  Of course, even with the silicone case, there still would be the more limited light output (currently!) caused by the reflective coating–I was only referring to the reflective light issue that Sansafix had noted…

http://www.pcmicrostore.com/SearchResult.aspx?q=kw:sansa+clip

It seems we still haven’t quite pinned down what the situation is with the display.  Is it caused by a coating that’s added to the 4GB but not the earlier models?  If so, can that coating be removed?  Or is it inherent in the material covering the display?

Peabody wrote:

It seems we still haven’t quite pinned down what the situation is with the display.  Is it caused by a coating that’s added to the 4GB but not the earlier models?  If so, can that coating be removed?  Or is it inherent in the material covering the display?

 

Ee yi yi yi.  Did you read the thread?  At least up to this point? :

 

Good news! Help is coming for the 4 GB brightness issue in a FIrmware upgrade.  Yes the reflective coating cut the light output.  We have a plan to boost the brightness of the OLED and conserve its life by allowing it to turn off in USB connected mode.  The firmware upgrade should be available in 3-4 weeks.  Sorry for the inconvenience.

And my hunch is, it would be problematic to try to remove the coating, however that might be done if even possible.  Personally, I’d either live with the 4gb inherent issues (as they are dealt with) or just get a 2gb unit. 

I’d like to know if the outdoor brightness will be “acceptable” with the 4 gig or if I should just stick with the 2 gig model.  Decisions, decisions!  I know it is merely speculation at this point and $80 isn’t all that much to pony up, but any thoughts?

@mkoplow wrote:
I’d like to know if the outdoor brightness will be “acceptable” with the 4 gig or if I should just stick with the 2 gig model.  Decisions, decisions!  I know it is merely speculation at this point and $80 isn’t all that much to pony up, but any thoughts?

If we’re speculating…
I doubt this firmware update will make much of a difference. There is little difference between min brightness and max brightness in terms of usage now. And coupled with Sansafix’s “setting expectations” reply, I doubt this will be ever be acceptable.

So the next question is how often you use the clip outside, and then how often do you need the screen when using it outside. For me personally, most of the time I’m outside I’ll choose a playlist just before I leave, then set it on shuffle, and hit forward if it reaches a song I don’t like. No screen needed so far. I do sometimes add brand new songs, and would like to know what I’m listening to, as well as rating or deleting songs. It’s a bit of a bummer that I’ll have to find shade to do all these things. I’m a bit ambivalent at this point


I suppose I am leaning towards just using the 2 gig version then.  Its a bummer because I’ll have to swap playlists more often.  4 gigs makes it possible to have all of my running/hiking gear, plus a decent amount for plane rides and the like without having to edit whats on the player.  Not being able to use it at all outside has been a pretty big issue with me thus far.

Mike

Would be nice if more was known right now (although, absolutely understandably, the fix just was announced and still needs to be worked out…).  Perhaps the only word for now is, if I recall correctly, the player likely would be ok for use in the shade outside.  Maybe the test for you now would be to go outside with the player and try to use it in the shade with the brightness all the way up, and then try to imagine the brightness at twice as bright or a bit less–would that make it workable for you?

Like most of you I was very disapointed about the clip’s outdoors problem.
I was planning to return the clip when i received it but seeing how quickly
the sansa team has responded gives me some hope.

I really appreciate the honesty in handling the situation so youve kept yourself a customer. =)

One more suggestion that would make this the perfect player for me:
File browsing.

Its so much more intuative for me and saves me the hassle of playlists.
I know it used to be implemented in older models so why not bring it back?

I wonder if they got the idea for the reflective finish/face from the LG Shine phone…

@sansafix wrote:
There will be no changes to the 1 and 2 GB versions,  FYI for this.

Yes,  more OLED output will require more current, but you will be able to turn down the brightness to mitigate it if you want.

You can also set the backlight timeout to be shorter.

When you are listening to music after the OLED turns off , there is no impact to the battery life.

Hope this helps.

Message Edited by sansafix on 03-06-2008 10:21 AM

This is only a viable patch for all the units that have made it into “the wild”. What is needed is a redesign of the screen or removal of the coating, to fix the original issue. Can’t Sandisk put a little clear “window” over the screen to allow maximum transfer of light from the display? Or better yet, use the same case(s) as the 2 GB units. If the electronics are the same, then get rid of the troublesome new case or display covering that is causing the issue. I for one don’t care that the unit is “sexy” looking - at least not at the cost of screwing up the display.

I think the firmware fix is a knee-jerk response (though I appreciate having it addressed so quickly). But the increase of the display current is going to cause premature display failures. Even if you turn off the display during USB linkage, you are still stressing the display with the increased current levels.

Think it through: the coating is the problem. The solution: remove the coating. This isn’t exactly rocket science. Some designer made a mistake. Bite the bullet and start producing 4GB units with the same case (and luminosity) as the 2 GB units. This is the immediate solution until the defective case/manufacturing process can be resolved.

As for me, I canceled my order for the 4 GB unit that I just placed this morning. I will probably purchase the 2 GB unit instead. That is unless I hear that this “firmware fix” is going away and the real issue is dealt with properly. 

@sansafix wrote:
So the question on the impact is what is the duty cycle of usage of the OLED.  If the Boosted OLED Doubles the current draw it will be about 25% more total current.  Assuming the OLED is on only 1.5 hours out of 15 hours playtime (10%),  then you are looking at a 2.5% reduction in battery life.

If the current draw is doubled, then the heating of the display and the battery will quadruple (Ohm’s law). Therefore the thermal stress of the components will decrease their lifetime resulting in premature failure.

Again let me state that this is a backdoor “patch” not a true solution. Eliminate the coating and leave the firmware alone. I personally will wait for the true fix. If the form factor is the same as the 2 GB units (the additional 2 GB memory can’t increase the overall size that much - the flash chip is probably the same size) then simply chuck the new case and stuff the 4 GB units into the older cases until the new case can be redesigned.

Sansafix has stated that other-colored 4 gb units possibly could come out by the end of the year (although this currently is uncertain). 

Another possible fix:  simply fade out the reflective coating in the display area …

@miikerman wrote:

Sansafix has stated that other-colored 4 gb units possibly could come out by the end of the year (although this currently is uncertain). 

 

Another possible fix:  simply fade out the reflective coating in the display area …

    I would be happy if they could repackage the unit in one of the other cases. Also I wonder how hard it would be to change a case? If this is doable, couldn’t they ship a replacement case to users that request them? Of have a recall and replace them?

    That’s probably not practical for the cost. However, if they made the changes immediately on their production line, then future units could have the “fix”.

    Another thought: if it is only the reflectivity of the coating, a fine steel wool could soften the display so it wouldn’t be so shiny (it would give it more of a dull satin sheen). However, I think it may have more to do with the translucence (light transmission of the material) of the cover in conjunction with the shiny coating. This would require a “lens” change - not a coating removal.

    As for the rollout of new colors, this is certainly an opportune time to move their plans ahead. I certainly wouldn’t buy one until the root problem is solved. I will wait a couple weeks to see how this goes before making a decision on purchasing the 2 GB unit instead.

    I am sold on the functionality of the unit. I was prepared to purchase the 2 GB model (black - don’t need or want colors) when I saw the 4 GB model on the Sansa website and bit. Now that I canceled that order, I will take a “look and see” attitude before any further decisions.

The reflective coating has been used on other models with this display (Express?). 

I’d give the enw firmware / OLED brightness modification a shot first, and see how that fares.

The Clip is not an easy wee beastie to reopen once snapped together, hence a production change is the best solution versus a retrofit.

My personal choice (you heard it here first, Clip fans!) A SPORT model replete with clear face and the cool soft casing of the new units, applied to the entire exterior.  The tactile coating is cool, but can be problematic over plastic, versus over the steel back (plasticizer weepage issues).  Or, go with a snazzy new color for the case…

Bob  :smileyvery-happy: