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SanDisk Guru
Posts: 4,898
Registered: ‎11-17-2008

Re: Confirmed - Micro SD Load Problems due to aac file load failures

[ Edited ]

@GPH wrote:

I have since loaded all my 3100+ songs to the card thinking I will put all podcasts, audio books and recordings on the player's memory.  I thought this approach would minimize the player refresh cycle when any content changed.  The podcasts get added and deleted regularly, so I wanted to keep refresh cycle times to a minimum.  I am disappointed to report that any adds or deletes to the player memory result in player refresh cycles that still take over 10 minutes with the almost full memory card still inserted.  I guess SanDisk would say it takes that long because I have so many songs on the card, but I think their refresh routine is inefficiently written assuming a much smaller memory footprint than most people will ultimately try and use with this player.  Your use case appears similar to mine.  You are using the 32GB card like I am.  Adding or deleting a few podcasts to the player should not take over ten minutes to update the players "database".

 

That is unfortunately the situation, even using all mp3 files.  What is your file count and what are your refresh times like?  How are your files spread (player memory versus card)?

 

GPH

 



Over the last two weeks, I've had to use my Zip as my podcast player......my desktop was down so I had no iTunes to load my podcasts onto my iPod. So, I used Mediamonkey on my netbook and subscribed to most of the podcasts so I could keep up. After the second day, I took my microsd card out of it. Even though my refresh times are under 4 minutes (16GB card, 8GB internal) it still wasn't worth dealing with twice a day when loading podcasts. On Monday when I am done hooking up the desktop again, I'll put the card back in the Zip....but not before.

 

And for anyone who wonders why I didn't just use my Clip+ for the podcasts.....it's because with Rockbox, there's a trick where you fill the internal memory just about to capacity, and it lets you delete the factory folders. When you disconnect from the computer, you get the "please delete 30MB blah blah blah" message for about 2 seconds and then the player shuts down. Restart, and the player is ready to go.....and you never see a database refresh at all, provided you keep the internal memory crammed full....so full it stays. I think last time I swapped content on it, which was yesterday, the properties showed me that I have 1.5MB free....lol.

 

If my desktop ever goes down again, I'll try a different approach....I'll clear space off my Zune HD and try subscribing to the podcasts with the Zune software,which is on my netbook. iPods and Zunes aren't very popular here, but there's no database refresh times with them.Smiley Tongue

iPod Touch 5G 32GB, Touch 4G 32GB, Clip Sport 8GB.
Rockbox-> Clip Zip 4GB, iPod Nano 2G 4GB, iPod 5.5G 80GB
2012 Nexus 7 32GB, Asus MeMoPad 8 16+64GB, LG Optimus G Pro, Nokia Lumia 900, Nokia Lumia 520

Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎10-07-2011

Re: Confirmed - Micro SD Load Problems due to aac file load failures

I hope Sandisk really puts in the effort to fix the M4A issue before adding new features (as tracked in another thread).   "AAC compatible" was a HUGE reason in my purchase decision.  I did not want to waste time converting all my iTune collection to mp3 (btw, converting to MP3 is not a solution to a problem ticket).  Hence the "AAC compatible" was what sold me on the upgrade from Sansa Clip.

 

Now I find out it does not work as advertised, as none of my M4A files work even after the 1.0.....17 patch upgrade.  The player continue to get stuck on reindex. Ultimately I gave up and removed all the M4A files from the player.  I honestly need to know if Sandisk intend to fix what they promised.

SanDisk Guru
Posts: 4,548
Registered: ‎07-18-2007

Re: Confirmed - Micro SD Load Problems due to aac file load failures


@sevenup wrote:

I hope Sandisk really puts in the effort to fix the M4A issue before adding new features (as tracked in another thread).   "AAC compatible" was a HUGE reason in my purchase decision.  I did not want to waste time converting all my iTune collection to mp3 (btw, converting to MP3 is not a solution to a problem ticket).  Hence the "AAC compatible" was what sold me on the upgrade from Sansa Clip.

 

Now I find out it does not work as advertised, as none of my M4A files work even after the 1.0.....17 patch upgrade.  The player continue to get stuck on reindex. Ultimately I gave up and removed all the M4A files from the player.  I honestly need to know if Sandisk intend to fix what they promised.


keep in mind aac support is for nonDRM itunes files. if you ahve a non DRM itunes AAC file that causes issues post it here so we can take a look at the file. 

SanDisk Guru
Posts: 8,152
Registered: ‎12-11-2007

Re: Confirmed - Micro SD Load Problems due to aac file load failures


@sevenup wrote:

I hope Sandisk really puts in the effort to fix the M4A issue before adding new features (as tracked in another thread).   "AAC compatible" was a HUGE reason in my purchase decision.  I did not want to waste time converting all my iTune collection to mp3 (btw, converting to MP3 is not a solution to a problem ticket).  Hence the "AAC compatible" was what sold me on the upgrade from Sansa Clip.

 

Now I find out it does not work as advertised, as none of my M4A files work even after the 1.0.....17 patch upgrade.  The player continue to get stuck on reindex. Ultimately I gave up and removed all the M4A files from the player.  I honestly need to know if Sandisk intend to fix what they promised.


How are you transferring files to the Clip?  A Mac can create ghost files that will choke a player.  The solution:  use Internet freeware Hidden Cleaner or KopyMac to transfer the files. 

GPH
Newbie
Posts: 18
Registered: ‎09-01-2011

Re: Confirmed - Micro SD Load Problems due to aac file load failures


@Miikerman wrote:
How are you transferring files to the Clip?  A Mac can create ghost files that will choke a player.  The solution:  use Internet freeware Hidden Cleaner or KopyMac to transfer the files. 

I  do my file transfers from finder on my mac.  I also do this with my Kindle 3 and it does not choke or experience refresh delays that you even notice when you move and remove content in this manner.  If what you say is true, shouldn't SanDisk put a little asterisk by the MacOS listing in their Minimum System Requirement that says: 

 

Windows® XP SP2, Mac OS® X 10.3 and Linux (Mass Storage Class only)?

 

The asterisk could mention this solution to use your suggested Internet freeware Hidden Cleaner or KopyMac to transfer the files if you are on a Mac if that really makes a difference.  Does SanDisk endorse this solution? I'm not sure I want to explore this yet if they don't.  Who on these forums is their official spokesperson?

 

 

GPH

 

Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎10-07-2011

Re: Confirmed - Micro SD Load Problems due to aac file load failures

[ Edited ]

Miikerman:  

my OS is windows XP, I use the provided USB-to-microUSB under the MTP(?) mode. It shows up under windows as a portable device with access to internal and external storage.  I used windows explore to copy the files over.  I tried using a small sample of my mp3/m4a collection. It always stuck on the m4a reindex (if i remove it, indexing always suceeds).

 

drlucky:

I appreciate the offer to examing the mp3 files, but since iTune seems to encode my information into the music files, I'm alittle reluctant to post them.  I know then I don't seem to help my own case under the circumstance by not posting them.

 

My thought:

The current firmware really gives a bad impression of the unit.  Look at the comments on Amazon, people misdiagnose thinking its card issue or the unit is faulty and return to Amazon for replacement.  Ultimately, they leave reviews that either leave people hesistant or steer them away (most people are not technical, and is not willing to chase down the cause like many here. They simply pick something else).

 

To help troubleshooting, the firmware really need to:

 

1. While re-indexing, if encounter issue, capture the error and move on so the unit stays working (even if its just with only mp3 indexed).

 

2. The result of the re-index should generate a log of the status containing any errors encountered during reindexing.  This should be log then user can provide Sandisk for troubleshooting purpose (instead of having to post files, Sandisk should be able to work with the detailed in the error/exception)

 

3. Allow manual Re-Index.  It can stay under the system manu, with 2 options:

     3a.  Reindex All

     3b.  Reindex Updates (any new file since last index)

    This options should work well with suggestion #1.  While #1 allows people to continue to use the unit, #3 allows a way to reindex after an updated firmware is issued.

SanDisk Guru
Posts: 8,152
Registered: ‎12-11-2007

Re: Confirmed - Micro SD Load Problems due to aac file load failures


@GPH wrote:

@Miikerman wrote:
How are you transferring files to the Clip?  A Mac can create ghost files that will choke a player.  The solution:  use Internet freeware Hidden Cleaner or KopyMac to transfer the files. 

I  do my file transfers from finder on my mac.  I also do this with my Kindle 3 and it does not choke or experience refresh delays that you even notice when you move and remove content in this manner.  If what you say is true, shouldn't SanDisk put a little asterisk by the MacOS listing in their Minimum System Requirement that says: 

 

Windows® XP SP2, Mac OS® X 10.3 and Linux (Mass Storage Class only)?

 

The asterisk could mention this solution to use your suggested Internet freeware Hidden Cleaner or KopyMac to transfer the files if you are on a Mac if that really makes a difference.  Does SanDisk endorse this solution? I'm not sure I want to explore this yet if they don't.  Who on these forums is their official spokesperson?

 

 

GPH

 


I'm not a Mac guy and am not sure how finder works--I just know that it's a known and reported issue/event that when a Mac is used to transfer files to non-Apple devices such as audio players and cameras, the ghost files (Mac admin. files, apparently) that get created and put on the device can choke it. 

 

I don't know that SanDisk has "endorsed" these third-party softwares, but they have been discussed here many times as a solution to the Mac-created ghost files issue.  And the 2 softwares have been widely available and found reliable/as good solutions.  (Note:  KopyMac may have been discontinued, although perhaps still available.)

 

Note that I don't know that this will fix your issue--but it's an easy-to-check possibility.

GPH
Newbie
Posts: 18
Registered: ‎09-01-2011

Re: Confirmed - Micro SD Load Problems due to aac file load failures


@Miikerman wrote:
How are you transferring files to the Clip?  A Mac can create ghost files that will choke a player.  The solution:  use Internet freeware Hidden Cleaner or KopyMac to transfer the files. 

Milkerman,

 

I decided to test whether these "ghost files" are a factor in the slow refresh time issues I am having using a 32 GB card with 3100 music files on it.  I moved all of the files to a PC from my Mac.  I then used mp3tag to clean the tags from iTunes using Marvin_Martian's mp3 tag options.  I resaved all the tags in mp3tag and then I moved all the files from the PC to the SanDisk Card that I had emptied of all the previous files. 

 

When I put the card back into the ClipZip and turned it on it took 110 minutes to complete the refresh.  This is about as long as it took before, so the ghost files don't appear to be the issue in these long refresh times.  ITunes tags don't appear to be the issue, I replaced all of those with the mp3tag program.  I lost all the cover art in the process of the move from Mac to PC, so the cover art is not the issue.  The only thing left to try is MSC versus MTP mode.  I have been using MSC mode up until now, due to use of the MAC, but now I can try MTP instead.  Any bets on whether this helps?

 

What's left to try other than MSC vs. MTP?

 

GPH

Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎10-10-2011

Re: Confirmed - Micro SD Load Problems due to aac file load failures

I just got my Clip Zip last week, and I updated the firmware first thing to the latest firmware.  I haven't had all of the same issues you all have had loading AAC files to my player, but I noticed today the AAC files I ripped from CDs at 256kb fixed rate do not play well with the Clip Zip (they sound real choppy.)   AAC files from the iTunes store seem to play OK so far.  Just thought it was kinda weird my ripped files don't sound that great but the iTunes purchases do-go figure.  Smiley Happy

Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎10-13-2011

Re: Confirmed - Micro SD Load Problems due to aac file load failures

A lot of purchasers are buying the CZ as a low cost iPod to run their iTunes songs.  The reviews here and at other sites are full of people having problems with their CZs when they try to play their AAC music.  These problems come mostly from loading music into the CZ that contains copy protection software.  Years ago as computers evolved, the music industry became concerned that computers could read and make perfect copies of music CDs.  So the CD manufacturers began hiding anti-copying software in the CD's music.  This is called Digital Rights Management or DRM for short.  In order for computer software to be able to play and copy DRM CDs, the software had to play by the music industry's rules and agree to limit copying of these CDs.  This is one of the functions of iTunes and Microsoft's Media Player.  When iTunes loads DRM music into an iPod during the SYNC process, it transfers decoding keys with the music and the iPod knows how to use these keys to play the music.  ITunes keeps track of how many copies are made and where the copies go.  The number of copies is limited.  In addition to DRM in CDs, at one time, the Apple store sold all online music with DRM built in, at the music industry's insistence,  but since early 2009, all Apple music is DRM free.  Apple does imbed your name in the music you buy today, like a watermark, so that any copies that you pass around can be traced back to you.  The CZ Does not "SYNC" to iTunes and is not programmed to use DRM keys. If you install DRM music into the CZ, it will lock up when it finds the DRM music during the Reindex procedure.  It is easy to drag and drop AAC music from iTunes, either from the iTunes window or from the song files themselves from their folders.  But only iTunes can transfer the keys needed to play the music.  
CD music that has DRM, does not comply with the COMPACT DISC standard.  IF there is no DRM present, a CD will display the COMPACT DISC logo on the CD and on the packaging.  If you don't see this logo, the CD's music will likely contain DRM and cause CZ playability problems.  Of 4500 songs loaded into my iTunes from my CDs, I found two albums that did not contain DRM.  Only these two albums would play in my CZ (rev 17 software).  The last 30 CDs I purchased, all contain DRM software and cause the CZ to lock up.  So beware that the CZ is not an iPod substitute.  It can not unlock DRM music.  Most of your music will likely contain DRM software.  You can get your DRM iTunes AAC music into your CZ by converting to lower quality MP3s, using digital to analog to digital conversion, and by using illegal methods, but all may take a lot of time.  If all your music was purchased online from Apple since early 2009, you are in luck and all your music should load into the CZ.  Note that some DRM music will load into the CZ's internal memory but not into external memory cards, so don't be too quick to call your microSD card bad.  Also many other online music sellers still use DRM.
If your CZ has locked up due to DRM software, you need to remove the infected music.  1. Hold down the CZ power button for 15 seconds.  This resets the CZ and leaves it in the off state.  Don't press the power button or the CZ will crash again.  Instead: 2. Connect the CZ while it is off, to your computer's USB port and delete the DRM music from the CZ after the CZ shows up as a drive.  When you disconnect your cleaned CZ from your computer, the CZ will be working normally again.
Chebaccojim