Volume Leveling

I have music from various on-line sources and copied from CD’s. Some play so softly I have to turn up the volume, and others are so loud I have to turn it down. It gets to be a pain! I’ve seen a thread regarding “volume noramlizing” suggesting an app called mp3gain that you could set all songs at a certain db level. Isn’t there a way to do this in a firmware update from Sandisk? I really don’t want to go through all my music adjusting the volume and then deleting/re-installing them on my player. I have a E260 v1 if that matters.

 

Thanks.

Edit: I checked out MP3GAIN. It only works on MP3 files. Half of my music is recorded as WMA format, so while MP3GAIN seems to work (I played around with it a little), it would only solve 1/2 my problem. I’d still have different volume levels with the different formats.

Is this a possible fix/feature with firmware programming? If so, I think it would be a good update.

Message Edited by Tapeworm on 04-17-2008 07:05 PM

Agreed, I’d really like to see this feature integrated into the firmware.

I don’t see how the player could do this. the processor in the player doesn’t have the power to look ahead and study the next song to be played, and find the peak volume in it to decide how to normalize the volume. This needs to be done by a program that edits the file on the pc.

This was one of my 1st contributions to this forum. Wow! Seems like such a long time ago.

Since you dug very deeply and dusted it off, I feel an update might be helpful & relevant. Since that time, I have realized that any solution by SanDisk is not going to happen as this player has been discontinued and no further firmware updates will be forthcoming.

Faced with limited options, I have re-ripped most of my own CD’s that I stupidly (at the time) converted into .wma format. For the songs that I had downloaded in this same format, I have found the CD’s in my local library system, borrowed them and re-ripped those too, so at this point approximately 95% of my entire music collection is in .mp3 format and therefore I can take advantage of MP3Gain and have adjusted the db levels all to an acceptable range.

Since that time also, I have upgraded to an e280v2 and a 8GB memory card for my ‘main’ player. On the old v1, I have installed Rockbox, which proves my original request is (or at least was) possible since it offers an option to use ReplayGain, a similar solution to MP3Gain.

There is still hope for the ‘E’ series descendent though, the Fuze. I haven’t heard that this is being looked at or considered for a future f/w update, but who knows? With the popularity of Rockbox firmware increasing, SanDisk may ‘borrow’ a few proven ideas from them. Or the solution may come from the RB folks themselves. At this point in time, they’re getting closer to porting to the Fuze, and v2 ‘E’ series. It won’t happen tomorrow, but just be patient.

“All comes to those who wait.” :wink:

This was one of my 1st contributions to this forum. Wow! Seems like such a long time ago.

Since you dug very deeply and dusted it off, I feel an update might be helpful & relevant. Since that time, I have realized that any solution by SanDisk is not going to happen as this player has been discontinued and no further firmware updates will be forthcoming.

Faced with limited options, I have re-ripped most of my own CD’s that I stupidly (at the time) converted into .wma format. For the songs that I had downloaded in this same format, I have found the CD’s in my local library system, borrowed them and re-ripped those too, so at this point approximately 95% of my entire music collection is in .mp3 format and therefore I can take advantage of MP3Gain and have adjusted the db levels all to an acceptable range.

Since that time also, I have upgraded to an e280v2 and a 8GB memory card for my ‘main’ player. On the old v1, I have installed Rockbox, which does have an option to use ReplayGain, a similar solution to MP3Gain. Unfortunately, as JK98 has suggested, this isn’t created on the player. You must run the tracks through the ReplayGain software on your computer to set the playback db levels in the ID3 tags of the track. Then, RB provides an option to use this information in various settings during playback.

Also unfortunately & ironically, Rockbox does not support APEv2 tags, which is what MP3Gain adds to the ID3 tags setting the playback levels. So Rockbox is not the be all, end all to portable player firmware. All those tracks I have run through MP3Gain to level the playback db settings are not recognized by the RB firmware. At least the SanDisk OF does this.

So in looking back on my suggestion, while it sounds attractive, I’ve learned that it is most likely not feasible.  Which means the end result is up to you, the owner. For the time being, ripping in .mp3 format at least allows you to control the playback levels with a 3rd-party program, where .wma does not. But if you use Rockbox, it won’t recognize the MP3Gain corrections.

Now Sandisk has added FLAC & Ogg Vorbis codecs to the available formats that the current models will play. I haven’t experimented with these, so a.) I don’t know if there is any sound difference in the format natively, when compared to the overwhelmingly popular .mp3 format and b.) is there any program to adjust or control any differences within the codec.

While these new formats offer superior sound, they also consume a lot more real estate on you player and/or memory card, so while there are some fans of them, probably the .mp3 format’s status at the top of the popularity heap is secure. I think the key to this quandry is to use the same format consistently. And the most controllable one I’ve found so far is .mp3. :wink:

Well Tapeworm, I know that you are a drag & dropper and do not like to sync, but there are options in a couple of the “music managers” to “normalize” your volume levels when they sync. I haven’t done this because I don’t know if they permanently change the original files, but there may be someone out there interested in this option, so there it is :smiley:

@marvin_martian wrote:
. . . but there are options in a couple of the “music managers” to “normalize” your volume levels when they sync. I haven’t done this because I don’t know if they permanently change the original files, but there may be someone out there interested in this option, so there it is :smiley:

But the question is, do they work on .wma files? or FLAC & OGG? MP3Gain adds the playback settings to the ID3 tag and doesn’t alter/affect the files at all. So you can go back and change, or even remove the settings.

MP3Gain though is limited to .mp3’s. I haven’t found anything similar for the other formats; .wma in particular since it’s probably the 2nd most popular and used audio codec.

From the MP3Gain website:

MP3Gain does not just do peak normalization, as many normalizers do. Instead, it does some statistical analysis to determine how loud the file actually sounds to the human ear.
Also, the changes MP3Gain makes are completely lossless. There is no quality lost in the change because the program adjusts the mp3 file directly, without decoding and re-encoding.

So I’m not sure if ‘normalizing’ is the best solution to the problem either.

@tapeworm wrote:

But the question is, do they work on .wma files? or FLAC & OGG?

 

Tapeworm - hope these links can help you.

 

http://flac.sourceforge.net/download.html 

 

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php

 

http://www.foobar2000.org/

 

Basically you will do a single rip to flac. Then a single, double or triple encode, to the format of your choice, (wma, mp3 or ogg). Foobar 2000 supports replay gain while encoding out of flac files.

 

Honestly, I can build a computer faster than I can figure out software - it took me a while to figure out Foobar 2000, but once mastered it is a kick butt music software. If you want to get a great rip to flac, I suggest Exact Audio Copy (EAC), then use mp3tag on the flac files and rip away in Foobar 2000.

 

@I personally prefer ogg to mp3. For my Rockboxed Sansa c240 I rip everything to ogg @ 6.25 setting even though it has been stated that transparency is realized at 5. The file sizes are really not “that” huge and the sound quality (to my ears anyway) sound so close to flac/wav. It sounds good on the Fuze as well, but I wiped it clean and don’t use it anymore.

 

For various settings, check out the Hydrogen Audio Forum as the answers are there and there is excellent reading through out the forum and knowledge base.

 

Go to town and have a ball!

 

Best regards,

 

Mike

 

 

EDIT: Like I said me and software are like oil and water :wink:

 

I don’t use replay gain - I might have it reversed. It might be that the flac file gets volume leveled so all encodes out of flac are volume leveled.

 

 

Message Edited by mstubie on 01-15-2009 09:26 PM

Message Edited by mstubie on 01-15-2009 09:38 PM

Message Edited by mstubie on 01-15-2009 09:40 PM

Hi i have just found my 1 year old Sansa Clip and it still looks like its working great but my volume buttons dont seem to be working ? i am able to turn it down but ive turned it right down that i no longer have volume at all on it.

is there another way to be able to turn up the volume so i ca hear prperly?

cheers,

Pwincess -

I’d advise posting this in the Clip board here. This thread is on volume ‘leveling’, an entirely different subject from what you’re asking about.

Must try to keep things ‘on-topic’ you know. :wink:

Ok, I’ll grant you that my e260 doesn’t have the processing power to do this.  I would think that it could be possible though in a new device if a faster processor was used.  I can see Volume Leveling being a feature that people look for when shopping for a DAP.  I am going to load some of the software mentioned above and do some leveling on my songs, but I wouldn’t in a million years expect my mom, or any other technically challenged person to.

Hopefully SanDisk will consider adding this functionality to a new player that they design.

Oh, and Tapeworm, I’m glad I was able to remind you of the good ol’ days :wink:

This message in reply to JK98’s message that said:

I don’t see how the player could do this. the processor in the player doesn’t have the power to look ahead and study the next song to be played, and find the peak volume in it to decide how to normalize the volume. This needs to be done by a program that edits the file on the pc.

Message Edited by vizoere on 04-10-2009 02:16 PM

Message Edited by vizoere on 04-10-2009 02:16 PM

Well, if you happen to have (or plan to get) a Fuze, the latest firmware update a couple days ago added ReplayGain. Of course you still have to ‘set’ the limits in a program on your computer first, then the playback info is stored in the ID3 tag, similar to MP3Gain.