Sansa Clip Firmware Update

@miikerman wrote:


@14124all wrote:
Time to face reality…it’s done.


I understand your point.  At the same time, quote:

 

"At this time due to development targeted on the Clip+, firmware for the original Clip is not currently under development. This may change in the future as time permits.

 

Forum Admin

slotmonsta"

 

Yes, there was some glimmer of hope at that point, but it was made previous to the after meeting “death” statement.

@14124all wrote:
Time to face reality…it’s done. All of us would like to see a fix, but I don’t think it’s going to happen. The E200 CIP stopped due to new product. The View CIP stopped due to new product. The Clip CIP stopped due to new product. The Fuze CIP will stop due to new product. See a pattern here? The product budget gets halted and so does the CIP. My guess also is that all resources are working on the Gen2 Fuze and a touchscreen player (Tap?).

But the issue will continue on every CLIP+ and FUZE+ forum,  every review, every Sansa vs. Apple comparison,  etc.    Companies waste money and make bad decisions.   This was a bad marketing decision.   Google search will always  find these threads and they will be searchable for the next few generation of mp3 players.   If the issue gets annoying enough,  someone intelligent within Sansa  will suggest they fix it.   And maybe they will as time permits…   I’d like to see it happen, because I have been loyal to sansa and Sandisk products, they have been competitive,  but they aren’t competitive.  They failed to address this quality issue.  They know its fixable and they failed to make the right decision.  Forget that previous reviews that said the clip had superior sound quality,   you can’t have superior sound when your off pitch and its detectable by human hearing.  No EQ is going to fix it.

@niko_sama wrote:


@14124all wrote:
Time to face reality…it’s done. All of us would like to see a fix, but I don’t think it’s going to happen. The E200 CIP stopped due to new product. The View CIP stopped due to new product. The Clip CIP stopped due to new product. The Fuze CIP will stop due to new product. See a pattern here? The product budget gets halted and so does the CIP. My guess also is that all resources are working on the Gen2 Fuze and a touchscreen player (Tap?).


But the issue will continue on every CLIP+ and FUZE+ forum,  every review, every Sansa vs. Apple comparison,  etc.    Companies waste money and make bad decisions.   This was a bad marketing decision.   Google search will always  find these threads and they will be searchable for the next few generation of mp3 players.   If the issue gets annoying enough,  someone intelligent within Sansa  will suggest they fix it.   And maybe they will as time permits…   I’d like to see it happen, because I have been loyal to sansa and Sandisk products, they have been competitive,  but they aren’t competitive.  They failed to address this quality issue.  They know its fixable and they failed to make the right decision.  Forget that previous reviews that said the clip had superior sound quality,   you can’t have superior sound when your off pitch and its detectable by human hearing.  No EQ is going to fix it.

The Sansa EQ isn’t capable of fixing anything.:stuck_out_tongue:

tipsypenguin wrote:

People are happy to pay for quality.  That’s why Apple sells so many over priced Ipods.

 

Isn’t 'dis one 'o dem OXYMORONS?

:smileyvery-happy:

@niko_sama wrote:


   I can’t help but think your being feed info from marketing only.   I have to ask myself why would marketing be involved in an engineering quality issue.      Engineering doesn’t require a bunch of marketing people to make a fix to fimware.

 

It just sounds like its comming out of the wrong department.  Since when did marketing have any say in bug fixes or improvements in Sansa’s firmware.    Go back and look at features and bugs that were fixed in the firmware press releases.   Engineering releases are technical not political.

You must not work in a manufacturing environment or work for one of those great companies, like H-P used to be, where the final call is made by engineering.  In most companies, like the tech company I work for, marketing does get a lot of input and often does make the final decision.  Or even worse, accounting and finance types do.  It’s quite common.  Marketing and finance decide if a fix is worth it or not, no matter what the engineers say.  I’ve seen it countless times in my 20+ year engineering career.

@tnmats wrote:


@niko_sama wrote:


   I can’t help but think your being feed info from marketing only.   I have to ask myself why would marketing be involved in an engineering quality issue.      Engineering doesn’t require a bunch of marketing people to make a fix to fimware.

 

It just sounds like its comming out of the wrong department.  Since when did marketing have any say in bug fixes or improvements in Sansa’s firmware.    Go back and look at features and bugs that were fixed in the firmware press releases.   Engineering releases are technical not political.


You must not work in a manufacturing environment or work for one of those great companies, like H-P used to be, where the final call is made by engineering.  In most companies, like the tech company I work for, marketing does get a lot of input and often does make the final decision.  Or even worse, accounting and finance types do.  It’s quite common.  Marketing and finance decide if a fix is worth it or not, no matter what the engineers say.  I’ve seen it countless times in my 20+ year engineering career.

I’m familar with Engineering that is empowered to make improvements within their own area of responsibility.    A fix for pitch correction is such a small thing it wouldn’t need to go beyond a manager, let alone need approval from a seperate organization like marketing who doesn’t dictate to engineering how to maintain a mature product.  As far as budgets go,  you already have  agroup with a budget to make changes.   You have a group responsible for the mp3’s you add the pitch issues to a list of needed fixes.   SansaFix took the issue to this group, An Engineer probably verified the issue, look at it and play with a fix.  I guarrentee this fix wasn’t rocket science.   Didn’t take a team of people to fix.  One person, with a request from sansafix.  Probably less than a  few hours, a change, a few calculations to verify, maybe a fine tune, some verification steps, and document it into the code base.  Your not building a new software product.   Your fine tuning ARM parameters for playback of 44.1k files, choosing a different output frequency? or stepping frequency.  Add to it a few coffee breaks,  some talking about the new clip+ project, some talk about the weekend, a break for lunch at the local barbeque.  An email to your boss.  Maybe a day’s work.

@niko_sama wrote:

I guarrentee this fix wasn’t rocket science.   Didn’t take a team of people to fix.  One person, with a request from sansafix.  Probably less than a  few hours, a change, a few calculations to verify, maybe a fine tune, some verification steps, and document it into the code base.  Your not building a new software product.   Your fine tuning ARM parameters for playback of 44.1k files, choosing a different output frequency? or stepping frequency.  Add to it a few coffee breaks,  some talking about the new clip+ project, some talk about the weekend, a break for lunch at the local barbeque.  An email to your boss.  Maybe a day’s work.

I agree this doesn’t seem like it would cost SanDisk that much in man-hours. Like you said, maybe a day’s work for 1 person. What do you think, a couple hundred bucks? Given that, I find it extrememly short-sighted (read penny-wise & pound-foolish) for Sandisk NOT to fix this.

But like I said earlier, we’re not privy to all that went into making this decision, so there could be other factors we’re not aware of. We’re not the CEO or the stockholders (well, maybe some of us are), so SanDisk does not have to explain or justify their business decsions to us.

Only a day’s work?  Throw in 1 or 2 more days to port the Clip+'s firmware improvements to the Clip, and I’ll be happy to start a collection to pay for the engineer’s time …   Heck, sell the firmware upgrade for $2 a pop and make a profit …

:wink:

This makes this all even more quizical–why not do it?  It’s cheaper than the repurcussions otherwise, I would think.   Once again, sigh.

when the fix is released for the clip+,  we hire a 15 to 18 year old genious hacker to compare the firmware’s and hunt down the changes, and fix the clip.   XD    Just joking D:

@miikerman wrote:

Only a day’s work?  Throw in 1 or 2 more days to port the Clip+'s firmware improvements to the Clip, and I’ll be happy to start a collection to pay for the engineer’s time …   Heck, sell the firmware upgrade for $2 a pop and make a profit …

 

:wink:

 

This makes this all even more quizical–why not do it?  It’s cheaper than the repurcussions otherwise, I would think.   Once again, sigh.

Doesn’t the “fruit” company sometimes charge for firmware upgrades?

@tnmats wrote:


@miikerman wrote:

Only a day’s work?  Throw in 1 or 2 more days to port the Clip+'s firmware improvements to the Clip, and I’ll be happy to start a collection to pay for the engineer’s time …   Heck, sell the firmware upgrade for $2 a pop and make a profit …

 

:wink:

 

This makes this all even more quizical–why not do it?  It’s cheaper than the repurcussions otherwise, I would think.   Once again, sigh.


Doesn’t the “fruit” company sometimes charge for firmware upgrades?

They have, yes.

@miikerman wrote:

Only a day’s work?  Throw in 1 or 2 more days to port the Clip+'s firmware improvements to the Clip, and I’ll be happy to start a collection to pay for the engineer’s time …   Heck, sell the firmware upgrade for $2 a pop and make a profit …

 

:wink:

 

This makes this all even more quizical–why not do it?  It’s cheaper than the repurcussions otherwise, I would think.   Once again, sigh.

There’s a very simple answer to your question Miikerman.

If they went ahead and did that, they would be back-pedaling on their statement that the problem would not be fixed, and through that, they would be admitting that they were in the wrong.

Actually, I think the door is still open, “as time permits.”

:wink:

@miikerman wrote:

Actually, I think the door is still open, “as time permits.”

 

:wink:

The squeaky wheel gets the oil.     Hopefully they will fix this before this follows them around and haunts them.

@niko_sama wrote:


@miikerman wrote:

Actually, I think the door is still open, “as time permits.”

 

:wink:


The squeaky wheel gets the oil.     Hopefully they will fix this before this follows them around and haunts them.

correct me you think I’m wrong, but sansafix’s statment on march 19th (on behalf of Sansa) that there would be a fix to the pitch problem, while ‘specifically addressing’ this exact problem, and then Sansa absolutely reneging on that statement via a 'reevaluation months later could be a ‘breach of contract’ ( CORRECTION: promissory-estoppel) I am thinking this wouldn’t be a difficult suit to win and I know just the lawyer to file for me. What SanDisk needs to do is credit the msrp of the clip and apply it to a purchase of a clip+ if such problem has been remedied.( Correction: credit the purchase price of the clip and IF they have marketing brains, apply it toward a clip+)

btw, how fast is the clip v2? I see mention of v1 being .7%…   <<<ANYONE?

Message Edited by hakujin on 10-11-2009 08:36 AM

Indeed!  That’s just what we need!  How about this enthusiastic solicitor  as a prime choice for the man to write some useful code  for the Sansa, rather than yet another patently useless legal brief.  As you can see, he is quite comfortable with electronic devices already. 

I haven’t met a lawyer who knows much about technology, much less legal matters involving it.

My heartfelt recommendation is to brew some coffee, pop those earbuds on, and relax a bit.

Bob   :smileyvery-happy:

With all due respect, Bob, the first paragraph of your post seems a bit uncalled for.

As to the second paragraph, and again with all due respect, then you haven’t met many good technology lawyers.

IMHO.   And now, to that cup of coffee …

With all due respect, Bob, then you haven’t met many good technology lawyers.

;)   And now, to that cup of coffee …

@hakujin wrote:

correct me you think I’m wrong, but sansafix’s statment on march 19th (on behalf of Sansa) that there would be a fix to the pitch problem, while ‘specifically addressing’ this exact problem, and then Sansa absolutely reneging on that statement via a 'reevaluation months later is a breach of contract. I am thinking this wouldn’t be a difficult suit to win and I know just the lawyer to file for me. What SanDisk needs to do is credit the msrp of the clip and apply it to a purchase of a clip+ if such problem has been remedied.

 

btw, how fast is the clip v2? I see mention of v1 being .7%…

Message Edited by hakujin on 10-10-2009 03:32 PM

ROTFL!!!

Sansafix never said which Clip would be fixed! He probably could not reveal the in development Clip+ at the time.

So you’re going to hire a lawyer for a credit to buy another player? Don’t think it’s going to be very cost effective!

And the useless babble rambles on…

Still LOL!!!