Sansa Clip Firmware Update

@niko_sama wrote:

 

To be honnest  we don’t know who said what within Sansa.   If the discussion is received at the right levels its very possible we will see a fix.    I think Sansa should be concerned about its quality and customers.   When the best you can do is be 20 cents off pitch and your competition can do way better, they better be concerned.  If there was a fix back in feb.   They should just get on with it and bring it out.   They have probably wasted enough time talking about it and no action.   You would be supprised how quickly something like this can be fixed if they want to take care of their customers. 

 

I agree 100% with everything you’ve said here. But (copying the original post from slotmonsta ), I believe we can and do know who said what regarding this issue:

Over the last few days there have been several meetings with Engineering, Marketing, and Product Management regarding the pitch issue some users have seen. Please see below a statement regarding the decision that was reached as a result of these meetings.

(This was obviously written by slotmonsta)

At SanDisk, our goal with our Sansa MP3 product line is to provide products which deliver a quality consumer experience at price points which are accessible to the majority of the population.  Our “value” positioning has served us well historically, although we acknowledge that occasionally our products do not live up to some users’ expectations.  The issues raised on this Forum regarding sound fidelity are important to us however due to trade-off decisions that were made in engineering these products to deliver superior consumer value at what we believe are extremely attractive price points, our sound fidelity isn’t perfect.  We have re-evaluated the possibility of reducing the pitch variation and due to the engineering trade-offs the decision was made to stay with the current design. Very few listeners, however, have noticed or complained about it as an issue in actual practice.  For those who can detect sound differences with their naked ears during actual use and not via frequency analysis, our products may not be the best choice for them.

There’s no doubt a ‘suit’ wrote or composed this. It just smacks of higher-education, lower-common sense attitude that an overpaid mucky-muck who wants to impress the common masses & stock-holders by using political-dance-all-around-the-question-withoout-ever-directly-answering-it would use. Even so, I get his (or her) meaning crystal clear.

Should SanDisk be concerned about it’s quality and customers? Absolutely YES!

Do they appear as though they do? Not by this statement, but we’re not privy to what goes on in those meetings and how decisions are reached.

Does SanDisk want to take care of it’s customers? Given the past interaction by slotmonsta in helping people get their RMA pushed through when they were having problems, I’d say some representatives of the company do indeed care . . . a lot. However, given the tone of the above ‘canned’ statement, it seems that sentiment is not shared all the way up the corporate ladder.

@niko_sama wrote:

 

To be honnest  we don’t know who said what within Sansa.   If the discussion is received at the right levels its very possible we will see a fix.    I think Sansa should be concerned about its quality and customers.   When the best you can do is be 20 cents off pitch and your competition can do way better, they better be concerned.  If there was a fix back in feb.   They should just get on with it and bring it out.   They have probably wasted enough time talking about it and no action.   You would be supprised how quickly something like this can be fixed if they want to take care of their customers. 

 

I agree 100% with everything you’ve said here, except your 1st sentence. Copying the original post from slotmonsta , I believe we can and do know who said what regarding this issue:

Over the last few days there have been several meetings with Engineering, Marketing, and Product Management regarding the pitch issue some users have seen. Please see below a statement regarding the decision that was reached as a result of these meetings.

(This was obviously written by slotmonsta)

At SanDisk, our goal with our Sansa MP3 product line is to provide products which deliver a quality consumer experience at price points which are accessible to the majority of the population.  Our “value” positioning has served us well historically, although we acknowledge that occasionally our products do not live up to some users’ expectations.  The issues raised on this Forum regarding sound fidelity are important to us however due to trade-off decisions that were made in engineering these products to deliver superior consumer value at what we believe are extremely attractive price points, our sound fidelity isn’t perfect.  We have re-evaluated the possibility of reducing the pitch variation and due to the engineering trade-offs the decision was made to stay with the current design. Very few listeners, however, have noticed or complained about it as an issue in actual practice.  For those who can detect sound differences with their naked ears during actual use and not via frequency analysis, our products may not be the best choice for them.

There’s no doubt a ‘suit’ wrote or composed this. It just smacks of higher-education, lower-common sense attitude that an overpaid mucky-muck who wants to impress the common masses & stock-holders by using political-dance-all-around-the-question-withoout-ever-directly-answering-it would use. Even so, I get his (or her) meaning crystal clear.

Should SanDisk be concerned about it’s quality and customers? Absolutely YES!

Do they appear as though they do? Not by this statement, but we’re not privy to what goes on in those meetings and how decisions are reached.

Does SanDisk want to take care of it’s customers? Given the past interaction by slotmonsta in helping people get their RMA pushed through when they were having problems, I’d say some representatives of the company do indeed care . . . a lot. However, given the tone of the above ‘canned’ statement, it seems that sentiment is not shared all the way up the corporate ladder.

@niko_sama wrote:

 

To be honnest  we don’t know who said what within Sansa.   If the discussion is received at the right levels its very possible we will see a fix.    I think Sansa should be concerned about its quality and customers.   When the best you can do is be 20 cents off pitch and your competition can do way better, they better be concerned.  If there was a fix back in feb.   They should just get on with it and bring it out.   They have probably wasted enough time talking about it and no action.   You would be supprised how quickly something like this can be fixed if they want to take care of their customers. 

 

I agree 100% with everything you’ve said here, except your 1st sentence. Copying the original post from slotmonsta , I believe we can and do know who said what regarding this issue:

Over the last few days there have been several meetings with Engineering, Marketing, and Product Management regarding the pitch issue some users have seen. Please see below a statement regarding the decision that was reached as a result of these meetings.

(This was obviously written by slotmonsta)

At SanDisk, our goal with our Sansa MP3 product line is to provide products which deliver a quality consumer experience at price points which are accessible to the majority of the population.  Our “value” positioning has served us well historically, although we acknowledge that occasionally our products do not live up to some users’ expectations.  The issues raised on this Forum regarding sound fidelity are important to us however due to trade-off decisions that were made in engineering these products to deliver superior consumer value at what we believe are extremely attractive price points, our sound fidelity isn’t perfect.  We have re-evaluated the possibility of reducing the pitch variation and due to the engineering trade-offs the decision was made to stay with the current design. Very few listeners, however, have noticed or complained about it as an issue in actual practice.  For those who can detect sound differences with their naked ears during actual use and not via frequency analysis, our products may not be the best choice for them.

There’s no doubt a ‘suit’ wrote or composed this. It just smacks of higher-education, lower-common sense attitude that an overpaid mucky-muck who wants to impress the common masses & stock-holders by using political-dance-all-around-the-question-withoout-ever-directly-answering-it would use. Even so, I get his (or her) meaning crystal clear.

Should SanDisk be concerned about it’s quality and customers? Absolutely YES!

Do they appear as though they do? Not by this statement, but we’re not privy to what goes on in those meetings and how decisions are reached.

Does SanDisk want to take care of it’s customers? Given the past interaction by slotmonsta in helping people get their RMA pushed through when they were having problems, I’d say some representatives of the company do indeed care . . . a lot. However, given the tone of the above ‘canned’ statement, it seems that sentiment is not shared all the way up the corporate ladder.

Actions speak louder than words.

@niko_sama wrote:

 

To be honnest  we don’t know who said what within Sansa.   If the discussion is received at the right levels its very possible we will see a fix.    I think Sansa should be concerned about its quality and customers.   When the best you can do is be 20 cents off pitch and your competition can do way better, they better be concerned.  If there was a fix back in feb.   They should just get on with it and bring it out.   They have probably wasted enough time talking about it and no action.   You would be supprised how quickly something like this can be fixed if they want to take care of their customers. 

 

I agree 100% with everything you’ve said here, except your 1st sentence. Copying the original post from slotmonsta , I believe we can and do know who said what regarding this issue:

Over the last few days there have been several meetings with Engineering, Marketing, and Product Management regarding the pitch issue some users have seen. Please see below a statement regarding the decision that was reached as a result of these meetings.

(This was obviously written by slotmonsta)

At SanDisk, our goal with our Sansa MP3 product line is to provide products which deliver a quality consumer experience at price points which are accessible to the majority of the population.  Our “value” positioning has served us well historically, although we acknowledge that occasionally our products do not live up to some users’ expectations.  The issues raised on this Forum regarding sound fidelity are important to us however due to trade-off decisions that were made in engineering these products to deliver superior consumer value at what we believe are extremely attractive price points, our sound fidelity isn’t perfect.  We have re-evaluated the possibility of reducing the pitch variation and due to the engineering trade-offs the decision was made to stay with the current design. Very few listeners, however, have noticed or complained about it as an issue in actual practice.  For those who can detect sound differences with their naked ears during actual use and not via frequency analysis, our products may not be the best choice for them.

There’s no doubt a ‘suit’ wrote or composed this. It just smacks of higher-education, lower-common sense attitude that an overpaid mucky-muck who wants to impress the common masses & stock-holders by using political-dance-all-around-the-question-withoout-ever-directly-answering-it would use. Even so, I get his (or her) meaning crystal clear.

Should SanDisk be concerned about it’s quality and customers? Absolutely YES!

Do they appear as though they do? Not by this statement, but we’re not privy to what goes on in those meetings and how decisions are reached.

Does SanDisk want to take care of it’s customers? Given the past interaction by slotmonsta in helping people get their RMA pushed through when they were having problems, I’d say some representatives of the company do indeed care . . . a lot. However, given the tone of the above ‘canned’ statement, it seems that sentiment is not shared all the way up the corporate ladder.

Actions speak louder than words.

@niko_sama wrote:

 

To be honnest  we don’t know who said what within Sansa.   If the discussion is received at the right levels its very possible we will see a fix.    I think Sansa should be concerned about its quality and customers.   When the best you can do is be 20 cents off pitch and your competition can do way better, they better be concerned.  If there was a fix back in feb.   They should just get on with it and bring it out.   They have probably wasted enough time talking about it and no action.   You would be supprised how quickly something like this can be fixed if they want to take care of their customers. 

 

I agree 100% with everything you’ve said here, except your 1st sentence. Copying the original post from slotmonsta , I believe we can and do know who said what regarding this issue:

Over the last few days there have been several meetings with Engineering, Marketing, and Product Management regarding the pitch issue some users have seen. Please see below a statement regarding the decision that was reached as a result of these meetings.

(This was obviously written by slotmonsta)

At SanDisk, our goal with our Sansa MP3 product line is to provide products which deliver a quality consumer experience at price points which are accessible to the majority of the population.  Our “value” positioning has served us well historically, although we acknowledge that occasionally our products do not live up to some users’ expectations.  The issues raised on this Forum regarding sound fidelity are important to us however due to trade-off decisions that were made in engineering these products to deliver superior consumer value at what we believe are extremely attractive price points, our sound fidelity isn’t perfect.  We have re-evaluated the possibility of reducing the pitch variation and due to the engineering trade-offs the decision was made to stay with the current design. Very few listeners, however, have noticed or complained about it as an issue in actual practice.  For those who can detect sound differences with their naked ears during actual use and not via frequency analysis, our products may not be the best choice for them.

There’s no doubt a executive wrote or composed this. I get his (or her) meaning crystal clear.

Should SanDisk be concerned about it’s quality and customers? Absolutely YES!

Do they appear as though they do? Not by this statement, but we’re not privy to what goes on in those meetings and how decisions are reached.

Does SanDisk want to take care of it’s customers? Given the past interaction by slotmonsta in helping people get their RMA pushed through when they were having problems, I’d say some representatives of the company do indeed care . . . a lot. However, given the tone of the above ‘canned’ statement, it seems that sentiment is not shared all the way up the corporate ladder.

Actions do speak louder than words, after all.

@tapeworm wrote:


@niko_sama wrote:

 

To be honnest  we don’t know who said what within Sansa.   If the discussion is received at the right levels its very possible we will see a fix.    I think Sansa should be concerned about its quality and customers.   When the best you can do is be 20 cents off pitch and your competition can do way better, they better be concerned.  If there was a fix back in feb.   They should just get on with it and bring it out.   They have probably wasted enough time talking about it and no action.   You would be supprised how quickly something like this can be fixed if they want to take care of their customers. 

 


I agree 100% with everything you’ve said here, except your 1st sentence. Copying the original post from slotmonsta , I believe we can and do know who said what regarding this issue:

 

Over the last few days there have been several meetings with Engineering, Marketing, and Product Management regarding the pitch issue some users have seen. Please see below a statement regarding the decision that was reached as a result of these meetings.

 

(This was obviously written by slotmonsta)

 

At SanDisk, our goal with our Sansa MP3 product line is to provide products which deliver a quality consumer experience at price points which are accessible to the majority of the population.  Our “value” positioning has served us well historically, although we acknowledge that occasionally our products do not live up to some users’ expectations.  The issues raised on this Forum regarding sound fidelity are important to us however due to trade-off decisions that were made in engineering these products to deliver superior consumer value at what we believe are extremely attractive price points, our sound fidelity isn’t perfect.  We have re-evaluated the possibility of reducing the pitch variation and due to the engineering trade-offs the decision was made to stay with the current design. Very few listeners, however, have noticed or complained about it as an issue in actual practice.  For those who can detect sound differences with their naked ears during actual use and not via frequency analysis, our products may not be the best choice for them.

 

There’s no doubt a executive wrote or composed this. I get his (or her) meaning crystal clear.

Should SanDisk be concerned about it’s quality and customers? Absolutely YES!

Do they appear as though they do? Not by this statement, but we’re not privy to what goes on in those meetings and how decisions are reached.

Does SanDisk want to take care of it’s customers? Given the past interaction by slotmonsta in helping people get their RMA pushed through when they were having problems, I’d say some representatives of the company do indeed care . . . a lot. However, given the tone of the above ‘canned’ statement, it seems that sentiment is not shared all the way up the corporate ladder.

Actions do speak louder than words, after all.

   I can’t help but think your being feed info from marketing only.   I have to ask myself why would marketing be involved in an engineering quality issue.      Engineering doesn’t require a bunch of marketing people to make a fix to fimware.

It just sounds like its comming out of the wrong department.  Since when did marketing have any say in bug fixes or improvements in Sansa’s firmware.    Go back and look at features and bugs that were fixed in the firmware press releases.   Engineering releases are technical not political.

My best guess is that, back in February/March, SanDisk had every intention of a firmware upgrade, with pitch fix–that’s why it stated that it would be providing them, in the forum (Sansafix, who made the postings, was at SanDisk at the time and represented the company).  If you recall, the company then was on a 3-month or so Clip firmware upgrade schedule. 

Then, the company decided on the wonderful Clip+ for the fall/holiday season, and understandably turned its efforts to that.  Unfortunately, that impacted an upgrade of the Clip firmware.

Since then, with the introduction of the Clip+, the company has had to decide what to do about a pitch fix and firmware upgrade for the original Clip.  It’s understandable that Marketing people would be involved–we’ve seen the reason why, with the many customer responses here.

Given the above, it seems fair for people to ask/encourage SanDisk to provide a final firmware upgrade, including pitch fix, here or otherwise.  People really do take pride in the product.  And SanDisk, in stating its position as to a firmware upgrade here, noted that the company may provide one, as time permits.

But it’s the company’s decision in the end.  I just hate seeing it lose customers over this and the tarnishing of a product/reputation, as people are posting.  (I mean, it’s in Wikipedia at this point.)  And, of course, I would love to see for the Clip (which still is being sold worldwide as on on-going product) the improvements that SanDisk’s many loyal Clip customers were encouraging the company on towards.

@tapeworm wrote:

Dont git 'yer panties in a bunch! No, I don’t speak for them, and despite how you may have read it, I was not targeting any particular people when I suggested that others move on. I simply meant there are a lot more important issues and bigger battles to be waged in this world where the outcome would be more significant than going to war with a company over its $50 mp3 player that until recently was rated and widely regarded as one of the best in it’s price range.

 

Regarding SanDisk and their position? Yes, that is for them to say, and unless I read it wrong they already did. Quite clearly. That’s what has got everyone up in arms. They have already swept it under the rug! That’s it. Deal’s done. Their decision is made. They’ve quite literally said, “This is the way it’s going to be, and if you (as consumers) don’t like it, go out and buy something else.”

 

This is what I meant by ‘moving on’. Everyone can talk about it till they’re blue in the face, but once a suit has made up his mind, there’s virtually no chance of changing it. Moving on means doing as they suggested and buyng other competitor’s products. P & L statements (especially the L) get big-wig’s attention. A handful of pissed-off customers on a user’s forum won’t.

 

Well, I really think you should work for Sandisk and they should pay you ,cause you’re doing a great job protecting their interests and backing their position; a customer usually backs his/her own interests, if you can get something more out of a company for what you’ve paid  then you should try and do it; that’s what people are doing here and you’re not!

I think it’s clear that what was said earlier by the forum admin is not Sandisk’s official statement and final decision in this matter; it’s just something told to calm/pacify the users here for the time being (till they find time for working on the fix maybe). no company is that stupid to tell their customers to go awy and buy their rivals’ products under any condition.

Time to face reality…it’s done. All of us would like to see a fix, but I don’t think it’s going to happen. The E200 CIP stopped due to new product. The View CIP stopped due to new product. The Clip CIP stopped due to new product. The Fuze CIP will stop due to new product. See a pattern here? The product budget gets halted and so does the CIP. My guess also is that all resources are working on the Gen2 Fuze and a touchscreen player (Tap?).

@donp wrote:


@summerlove wrote:
I have a question: I always thought the more serious pitch issues were only on v2 clips and fuzes (which I forgot about until this morning). So are the same problems on both v1 and v2?   


 

The V1 clip is about 0.7% sharp/fast.  I don’t have a V2, but from what I’ve read on the forum, they are flat.

 

 

Thank you

Sansa is just shooting themselves in the foot.  They may save a little money in the short term but in the long run they are going to lose more money then they are saving.  People are very loyal to brands they trust.  If they trust you they will come back and bring their friends.  If you dump on them they will go somewhere else.  If they want to make more money they should just raise their prices a little.  People are happy to pay for quality.  That’s why Apple sells so many over priced Ipods.

@14124all wrote:
Time to face reality…it’s done.

I understand your point.  At the same time, quote:

"At this time due to development targeted on the Clip+, firmware for the original Clip is not currently under development. This may change in the future as time permits.

 

Forum Admin

slotmonsta"

Some of you are really pathetic, I think you might be better off with a cassette player.

@miikerman wrote:


@14124all wrote:
Time to face reality…it’s done.


I understand your point.  At the same time, quote:

 

"At this time due to development targeted on the Clip+, firmware for the original Clip is not currently under development. This may change in the future as time permits.

 

Forum Admin

slotmonsta"

 

Yes, there was some glimmer of hope at that point, but it was made previous to the after meeting “death” statement.

@14124all wrote:
Time to face reality…it’s done. All of us would like to see a fix, but I don’t think it’s going to happen. The E200 CIP stopped due to new product. The View CIP stopped due to new product. The Clip CIP stopped due to new product. The Fuze CIP will stop due to new product. See a pattern here? The product budget gets halted and so does the CIP. My guess also is that all resources are working on the Gen2 Fuze and a touchscreen player (Tap?).

But the issue will continue on every CLIP+ and FUZE+ forum,  every review, every Sansa vs. Apple comparison,  etc.    Companies waste money and make bad decisions.   This was a bad marketing decision.   Google search will always  find these threads and they will be searchable for the next few generation of mp3 players.   If the issue gets annoying enough,  someone intelligent within Sansa  will suggest they fix it.   And maybe they will as time permits…   I’d like to see it happen, because I have been loyal to sansa and Sandisk products, they have been competitive,  but they aren’t competitive.  They failed to address this quality issue.  They know its fixable and they failed to make the right decision.  Forget that previous reviews that said the clip had superior sound quality,   you can’t have superior sound when your off pitch and its detectable by human hearing.  No EQ is going to fix it.

@niko_sama wrote:


@14124all wrote:
Time to face reality…it’s done. All of us would like to see a fix, but I don’t think it’s going to happen. The E200 CIP stopped due to new product. The View CIP stopped due to new product. The Clip CIP stopped due to new product. The Fuze CIP will stop due to new product. See a pattern here? The product budget gets halted and so does the CIP. My guess also is that all resources are working on the Gen2 Fuze and a touchscreen player (Tap?).


But the issue will continue on every CLIP+ and FUZE+ forum,  every review, every Sansa vs. Apple comparison,  etc.    Companies waste money and make bad decisions.   This was a bad marketing decision.   Google search will always  find these threads and they will be searchable for the next few generation of mp3 players.   If the issue gets annoying enough,  someone intelligent within Sansa  will suggest they fix it.   And maybe they will as time permits…   I’d like to see it happen, because I have been loyal to sansa and Sandisk products, they have been competitive,  but they aren’t competitive.  They failed to address this quality issue.  They know its fixable and they failed to make the right decision.  Forget that previous reviews that said the clip had superior sound quality,   you can’t have superior sound when your off pitch and its detectable by human hearing.  No EQ is going to fix it.

The Sansa EQ isn’t capable of fixing anything.:stuck_out_tongue:

tipsypenguin wrote:

People are happy to pay for quality.  That’s why Apple sells so many over priced Ipods.

 

Isn’t 'dis one 'o dem OXYMORONS?

:smileyvery-happy:

@niko_sama wrote:


   I can’t help but think your being feed info from marketing only.   I have to ask myself why would marketing be involved in an engineering quality issue.      Engineering doesn’t require a bunch of marketing people to make a fix to fimware.

 

It just sounds like its comming out of the wrong department.  Since when did marketing have any say in bug fixes or improvements in Sansa’s firmware.    Go back and look at features and bugs that were fixed in the firmware press releases.   Engineering releases are technical not political.

You must not work in a manufacturing environment or work for one of those great companies, like H-P used to be, where the final call is made by engineering.  In most companies, like the tech company I work for, marketing does get a lot of input and often does make the final decision.  Or even worse, accounting and finance types do.  It’s quite common.  Marketing and finance decide if a fix is worth it or not, no matter what the engineers say.  I’ve seen it countless times in my 20+ year engineering career.

@tnmats wrote:


@niko_sama wrote:


   I can’t help but think your being feed info from marketing only.   I have to ask myself why would marketing be involved in an engineering quality issue.      Engineering doesn’t require a bunch of marketing people to make a fix to fimware.

 

It just sounds like its comming out of the wrong department.  Since when did marketing have any say in bug fixes or improvements in Sansa’s firmware.    Go back and look at features and bugs that were fixed in the firmware press releases.   Engineering releases are technical not political.


You must not work in a manufacturing environment or work for one of those great companies, like H-P used to be, where the final call is made by engineering.  In most companies, like the tech company I work for, marketing does get a lot of input and often does make the final decision.  Or even worse, accounting and finance types do.  It’s quite common.  Marketing and finance decide if a fix is worth it or not, no matter what the engineers say.  I’ve seen it countless times in my 20+ year engineering career.

I’m familar with Engineering that is empowered to make improvements within their own area of responsibility.    A fix for pitch correction is such a small thing it wouldn’t need to go beyond a manager, let alone need approval from a seperate organization like marketing who doesn’t dictate to engineering how to maintain a mature product.  As far as budgets go,  you already have  agroup with a budget to make changes.   You have a group responsible for the mp3’s you add the pitch issues to a list of needed fixes.   SansaFix took the issue to this group, An Engineer probably verified the issue, look at it and play with a fix.  I guarrentee this fix wasn’t rocket science.   Didn’t take a team of people to fix.  One person, with a request from sansafix.  Probably less than a  few hours, a change, a few calculations to verify, maybe a fine tune, some verification steps, and document it into the code base.  Your not building a new software product.   Your fine tuning ARM parameters for playback of 44.1k files, choosing a different output frequency? or stepping frequency.  Add to it a few coffee breaks,  some talking about the new clip+ project, some talk about the weekend, a break for lunch at the local barbeque.  An email to your boss.  Maybe a day’s work.

@niko_sama wrote:

I guarrentee this fix wasn’t rocket science.   Didn’t take a team of people to fix.  One person, with a request from sansafix.  Probably less than a  few hours, a change, a few calculations to verify, maybe a fine tune, some verification steps, and document it into the code base.  Your not building a new software product.   Your fine tuning ARM parameters for playback of 44.1k files, choosing a different output frequency? or stepping frequency.  Add to it a few coffee breaks,  some talking about the new clip+ project, some talk about the weekend, a break for lunch at the local barbeque.  An email to your boss.  Maybe a day’s work.

I agree this doesn’t seem like it would cost SanDisk that much in man-hours. Like you said, maybe a day’s work for 1 person. What do you think, a couple hundred bucks? Given that, I find it extrememly short-sighted (read penny-wise & pound-foolish) for Sandisk NOT to fix this.

But like I said earlier, we’re not privy to all that went into making this decision, so there could be other factors we’re not aware of. We’re not the CEO or the stockholders (well, maybe some of us are), so SanDisk does not have to explain or justify their business decsions to us.