Sansa Clip Firmware Update

@marvin_martian wrote:


@promisedplanet wrote:


@marvin_martian wrote:
They might as well close this thread, since they’re not working on the Clip anymore…right? :wink:


 

I thought slotmonsta said that development was temporarily shifted to the Clip+.


Well, he said that before that latest announcement about the pitch fix (or lack thereof)…so I’m skeptical about anything else they plan or don’t plan, I guess.:neutral_face:

I guess I could read back through the threads, but maybe you’ll be kind enough to remind me about the latest announcement you mention?

The last thing I remember about this from SanDisk was a post stating that the pitch fix had never made it into development for the Clip, and there was no secret firmware upgrade “sitting on the shelves.”  Is this in direct contradiction to any statement SanDisk has made in the past?

Message Edited by PromisedPlanet on 09-26-2009 04:47 PM

@promisedplanet wrote:


@marvin_martian wrote:


@promisedplanet wrote:


@marvin_martian wrote:
They might as well close this thread, since they’re not working on the Clip anymore…right? :wink:


 

I thought slotmonsta said that development was temporarily shifted to the Clip+.


Well, he said that before that latest announcement about the pitch fix (or lack thereof)…so I’m skeptical about anything else they plan or don’t plan, I guess.:neutral_face:


 

I guess I could read back through the threads, but maybe you’ll be kind enough to remind me about the latest announcement you mention?

 

The last thing I remember about this from SanDisk was a post stating that the pitch fix had never made it into development for the Clip, and there was no secret firmware upgrade “sitting on the shelves.”  Is this in direct contradiction to any statement SanDisk has made in the past?

Message Edited by PromisedPlanet on 09-26-2009 04:47 PM

That’s the same announcement I was referring to. Think back a while though…Remember when maxplanck made it into an issue with the Fuze? Personal attacks, threads locked, people taking sides? End result was, they fixed it on the Fuze. That is why it irks me that they choose not to do the same with the Clip and Clip+…the players do share a lot of parts, and code, do they not?

The pitch issue isn’t even why I moved on from my Sansa players…I never was able to hear it myself, although I did play a track at the same time as the same song on my 17-year-old Sony CD changer, and by the end of a 3.5 minute song, the Clip was 3 or 4 seconds out of sync. I just take offense to their “we’re not going to fix it” stance, especially on their brand new player. 

My Sansas never died on me, I just wanted to try something different…and I only sold the last one after I experienced a player with a properly-executed EQ (the only real failing of the Sansas) .  If they were to change their official posture on this issue, at least on the Clip+, then I might consider buying one next year. It’s sad, really… if they maintain their position, that at the very least, a lot of repeat customers will no longer be repeat customers. :cry:

@summerlove wrote:
I have a question: I always thought the more serious pitch issues were only on v2 clips and fuzes (which I forgot about until this morning). So are the same problems on both v1 and v2?   

 

The V1 clip is about 0.7% sharp/fast.  I don’t have a V2, but from what I’ve read on the forum, they are flat.

 

PromisedPlanet wrote:

 

The last thing I remember about this from SanDisk was a post stating that the pitch fix had never made it into development for the Clip, and there was no secret firmware upgrade “sitting on the shelves.”  Is this in direct contradiction to any statement SanDisk has made in the past?

Message Edited by PromisedPlanet on 09-26-2009 04:47 PM

On 19 March this year, SanDisk employee Sansafix said here: 

Pitch issue fix is feasible and will be in the next planned update,  likely within 2 - 3 months.  

The month before (I can’t find it now) he said that a pitch fix had been found (or similar words) that would impact battery power less than 3% and that the fix would come out in the next firmware release “this quarter” (his words).  No further firmware release ever came out.

SanDisk’s current pronouncement is contradictory to both of these.

@malix wrote:
Sansa Clip Pitch Issue

Introduction

Personal observation, as well as reports of other Sansa Clip users, indicate that music files played on this MP3 player are off-pitch [1]. For instance, DAVEK reported an error of -19.5 cents at 1000Hz on a file sampled at 44.1kHz on his Sansa Clip 8GB [2].

On the other hand, SanDisk technical support have stated that this problem was fixed by the latest firmware release (version 02.01.32 of February 2009) [3]. To test this assertion, I played the same audio file on two different Sansa Clips, on two other MP3 players, and on iTunes/PowerMac G4, and compared the results.

Nice test,

but did you try with a different codec ?

Everytime I’ve read of pitch bug I’ve found attached the word MP3. Clip plays also WMA ( like 99,9% of portable players ), OGG and FLAC.  

Is the problem related to MP3 only or it’s present with every codec ?

Could be very intersting redo the same test with WMA encoding ( so it’s possible to compare the behaviour of all 5 players ) and with OGG and FLAC ( in this case comparing Mp3 and Ogg and FLAC Clip performances ), with same settings ( 44.100 Kkz / 16 bit ). 

If the problem is not dependent by the codec the Clip results should be the same for every test. 

@sansaconcerns wrote:

On 19 March this year, SanDisk employee Sansafix said here: 

 

Pitch issue fix is feasible and will be in the next planned update,  likely within 2 - 3 months.  

 

The month before (I can’t find it now) he said that a pitch fix had been found (or similar words) that would impact battery power less than 3% and that the fix would come out in the next firmware release “this quarter” (his words).  No further firmware release ever came out.

 

SanDisk’s current pronouncement is contradictory to both of these.

I think its more interesting to read the exact statement SansaFix wrote.   He always gave us the good scoup on what was happening with the firmware.   Does this sound like they just identified a potential issue, or does this sound like they actually tested some new code.   You be the judge:

Reference:  http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=sansafuse&message.id=18197

@sansafix wrote:

 

All,

Good news, We have reduced the pitch error by one order of magnitude with little to no effect on battery life (<3%).

The optimization will be included in the next firmware release due out this quarter.

We have optimized for 44Khz and the pitch error is < 0.14%

For all other samples rates its <0.18%

Message Edited by sansafix on 02-19-2009 08:37 AM
 

Thank you niko, that is what I was looking for and could not find, from Feb.  And then again in March, sansafix said (his words):

“Pitch issue fix is feasible and will be in the next planned update, likely within 2 - 3 months.”

LOL–I guess I missed that update when I was vacationing over the last 6 months.

@ricky65 wrote:


@malix wrote:
Sansa Clip Pitch Issue

Introduction

Personal observation, as well as reports of other Sansa Clip users, indicate that music files played on this MP3 player are off-pitch [1]. For instance, DAVEK reported an error of -19.5 cents at 1000Hz on a file sampled at 44.1kHz on his Sansa Clip 8GB [2].

On the other hand, SanDisk technical support have stated that this problem was fixed by the latest firmware release (version 02.01.32 of February 2009) [3]. To test this assertion, I played the same audio file on two different Sansa Clips, on two other MP3 players, and on iTunes/PowerMac G4, and compared the results.


Nice test,

but did you try with a different codec ?

 

Everytime I’ve read of pitch bug I’ve found attached the word MP3. Clip plays also WMA ( like 99,9% of portable players ), OGG and FLAC.  

Is the problem related to MP3 only or it’s present with every codec ?

 

Could be very intersting redo the same test with WMA encoding ( so it’s possible to compare the behaviour of all 5 players ) and with OGG and FLAC ( in this case comparing Mp3 and Ogg and FLAC Clip performances ), with same settings ( 44.100 Kkz / 16 bit ). 

If the problem is not dependent by the codec the Clip results should be the same for every test. 

  WIth the clip v1 I tested mp3, ogg, and FLAC with identical results, .7% fast. 

More than likely they were working on the clip+ then,  and stopped support on the clip.  Hense all the complains of bad customer server…    Maybe its marketing’s way to sell more clip+'s.  Who knows for sure.  Stranger things happen.

I’m sure some engineer is pissed cause his project got cancelled for all the wrong reasons.

;p;   :)   I just hope it wasn’t SansaFix,  he was awesome.

@niko_sama wrote:

More than likely they were working on the clip+ then,  and stopped support on the clip.  Hense all the complains of bad customer server…    Maybe its marketing’s way to sell more clip+'s.  Who knows for sure.  Stranger things happen.

 

I’m sure some engineer is pissed cause his project got cancelled for all the wrong reasons.

 

;p;   :)   I just hope it wasn’t SansaFix,  he was awesome.

I agree, he was cool, and he actually cared about improving the players, in addition to stopping in here and helping us out.

Abit off topic…    but with regards to the last firmware update we received and then being told there would be an update …   and then no update appeared and now being told when time permits…

Remember these posts for a Clip with a slot  back in 07/2008 and again in feb 2009?    I do…   at least i remember the one from Feb 2009…

http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=clip&message.id=8590

http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=clip&message.id=10314

I’m sure the Clip+ was born from discussions on this forum.   It would be interesting to know the whole story and who actually helped made this happen.    Thanks Sansa for listening. :slight_smile:

Message Edited by niko_sama on 09-26-2009 05:26 PM

 

Abit off topic…    but with regards to the last firmware update we received and then being told there would be an update …   and then no update appeared and now being told when time permits…

 

Remember these posts for a Clip with a slot  back in 07/2008 and again in feb 2009?    I do…   at least i remember the one from Feb 2009…

 

http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=clip&message.id=8590

 

http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=clip&message.id=10314

 

I’m sure the Clip+ was born from discussions on this forum.   If this was true, it would be interesting to know the whole story of who read this forum,   reported it back as a concept and so on.    Thanks Sansa for listening. :smiley:

@niko_sama wrote:


@sansaconcerns wrote:

On 19 March this year, SanDisk employee Sansafix said here: 

 

Pitch issue fix is feasible and will be in the next planned update,  likely within 2 - 3 months.  

 

The month before (I can’t find it now) he said that a pitch fix had been found (or similar words) that would impact battery power less than 3% and that the fix would come out in the next firmware release “this quarter” (his words).  No further firmware release ever came out.

 

SanDisk’s current pronouncement is contradictory to both of these.


I think its more interesting to read the exact statement SansaFix wrote.   He always gave us the good scoup on what was happening with the firmware.   Does this sound like they just identified a potential issue, or does this sound like they actually tested some new code.   You be the judge:

 

Reference:  http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=sansafuse&message.id=18197

But, as pointed out by slotmonsta earlier in this thread, sansafix is not longer a SanDisk developer or employee. So nothing he said in the past is going to cut any ice now. He’s moved on, Sandisk has moved on, and it’s probably time others did the same.

@niko_sama wrote:


@sansaconcerns wrote:

On 19 March this year, SanDisk employee Sansafix said here: 

 

Pitch issue fix is feasible and will be in the next planned update,  likely within 2 - 3 months.  

 

The month before (I can’t find it now) he said that a pitch fix had been found (or similar words) that would impact battery power less than 3% and that the fix would come out in the next firmware release “this quarter” (his words).  No further firmware release ever came out.

 

SanDisk’s current pronouncement is contradictory to both of these.


I think its more interesting to read the exact statement SansaFix wrote.   He always gave us the good scoup on what was happening with the firmware.   Does this sound like they just identified a potential issue, or does this sound like they actually tested some new code.   You be the judge:

 

Reference:  http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=sansafuse&message.id=18197

But, as pointed out by slotmonsta earlier in this thread, sansafix is no longer a SanDisk developer or employee. So nothing he said in the past is going to cut any ice now. He’s moved on, Sandisk has moved on, and it’s probably time others did the same.

@niko_sama wrote:
 

Abit off topic…    but with regards to the last firmware update we received and then being told there would be an update …   and then no update appeared and now being told when time permits…

 

Remember these posts for a Clip with a slot  back in 07/2008 and again in feb 2009?    I do…   at least i remember the one from Feb 2009…

 

http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=clip&message.id=8590

 

http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=clip&message.id=10314

 

I’m sure the Clip+ was born from discussions on this forum.   If this was true, it would be interesting to know the whole story of who read this forum,   reported it back as a concept and so on.    Thanks Sansa for listening. :smiley:

 

I’m a Sansa Customer, why would I want to move on,  because you suggest so?   I think not.   This forum is perfect for this discussion.    The statement made by SansaFix was made while he was actively supporting this forum/product.     His words then may not represent Sansa’s current position but they do represent the history of this subject.    I’m not ready to rest on this subject and I’m sure there are others that arn’t.     I feel abit insulted when people tell me to move on when they don’t even work for Sansa.    Sansa needs to hear it.  Thank you very much.

@tapeworm wrote:


@niko_sama wrote:


@sansaconcerns wrote:

On 19 March this year, SanDisk employee Sansafix said here: 

 

Pitch issue fix is feasible and will be in the next planned update,  likely within 2 - 3 months.  

 

The month before (I can’t find it now) he said that a pitch fix had been found (or similar words) that would impact battery power less than 3% and that the fix would come out in the next firmware release “this quarter” (his words).  No further firmware release ever came out.

 

SanDisk’s current pronouncement is contradictory to both of these.


I think its more interesting to read the exact statement SansaFix wrote.   He always gave us the good scoup on what was happening with the firmware.   Does this sound like they just identified a potential issue, or does this sound like they actually tested some new code.   You be the judge:

 

Reference:  http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=sansafuse&message.id=18197


But, as pointed out by slotmonsta earlier in this thread, sansafix is no longer a SanDisk developer or employee. So nothing he said in the past is going to cut any ice now. He’s moved on, Sandisk has moved on, and it’s probably time others did the same.

I read Slotmonster post,  im not blind.    His post was while working for Sansa and represents valid history of Sansas Position then,  what was posible or done at the time.    Sansa position may have changed.   But thats for Sansa to say, I don’t think you talk for them, you are just a user of this forum.   And I’m abit insulted when someone suggest we (those talking about the issue) should move on.    I’m happy talking about the issue and hopeful someone within Sansa will understand the real issues and not try to sweep it under the rug.   I don’t think this issue will end without a proper fix.

@niko_sama wrote:

I read Slotmonster post,  im not blind.    His post was while working for Sansa and represents valid history of Sansas Position then,  what was posible or done at the time.    Sansa position may have changed.   But thats for Sansa to say, I don’t think you talk for them, you are just a user of this forum.   And I’m abit insulted when someone suggest we (those talking about the issue) should move on.    I’m happy talking about the issue and hopeful someone within Sansa will understand the real issues and not try to sweep it under the rug.   I don’t think this issue will end without a proper fix.

Dont git 'yer panties in a bunch! No, I don’t speak for them, and despite how you may have read it, I was not targeting any particular people when I suggested that others move on. I simply meant there are a lot more important issues and bigger battles to be waged in this world where the outcome would be more important than going to war with a company over its $50 mp3 player that until recently was rated and widely regarded as one of the best in it’s price range.

Regarding SanDisk and their position? Yes, that is for them to say, and unless I read it wrong they already did. Quite clearly. That’s what has got everyone up in arms. They have already swept it under the rug. That’s it. Deal’s done. Their decision is made. They’ve quite literally said, “This is the way it’s going to be, and if you (as consumers) don’t like it, go out and buy something else.”

This is what I meant by ‘moving on’. Everyone can talk about it till they’re blue is the face, but once a suit has made up his mind, there’s very, very little chance of changing it. Moving on means doing as they suggested and buyng other competitor’s products. P & L statements (especially the L) get big-wig’s attention. A handful of pissed-off customers on a user’s forum won’t.

@niko_sama wrote:

I read Slotmonster post,  im not blind.    His post was while working for Sansa and represents valid history of Sansas Position then,  what was posible or done at the time.    Sansa position may have changed.   But thats for Sansa to say, I don’t think you talk for them, you are just a user of this forum.   And I’m abit insulted when someone suggest we (those talking about the issue) should move on.    I’m happy talking about the issue and hopeful someone within Sansa will understand the real issues and not try to sweep it under the rug.   I don’t think this issue will end without a proper fix.

Dont git 'yer panties in a bunch! No, I don’t speak for them, and despite how you may have read it, I was not targeting any particular people when I suggested that others move on. I simply meant there are a lot more important issues and bigger battles to be waged in this world where the outcome would be more significant than going to war with a company over its $50 mp3 player that until recently was rated and widely regarded as one of the best in it’s price range.

Regarding SanDisk and their position? Yes, that is for them to say, and unless I read it wrong they already did. Quite clearly. That’s what has got everyone up in arms. They have already swept it under the rug! That’s it. Deal’s done. Their decision is made. They’ve quite literally said, “This is the way it’s going to be, and if you (as consumers) don’t like it, go out and buy something else.”

This is what I meant by ‘moving on’. Everyone can talk about it till they’re blue in the face, but once a suit has made up his mind, there’s virtually no chance of changing it. Moving on means doing as they suggested and buyng other competitor’s products. P & L statements (especially the L) get big-wig’s attention. A handful of pissed-off customers on a user’s forum won’t.

@tapeworm wrote:

Dont git 'yer panties in a bunch! No, I don’t speak for them, and despite how you may have read it, I was not targeting any particular people when I suggested that others move on. I simply meant there are a lot more important issues and bigger battles to be waged in this world where the outcome would be more significant than going to war with a company over its $50 mp3 player that until recently was rated and widely regarded as one of the best in it’s price range.

 

Regarding SanDisk and their position? Yes, that is for them to say, and unless I read it wrong they already did. Quite clearly. That’s what has got everyone up in arms. They have already swept it under the rug! That’s it. Deal’s done. Their decision is made. They’ve quite literally said, “This is the way it’s going to be, and if you (as consumers) don’t like it, go out and buy something else.”

 

This is what I meant by ‘moving on’. Everyone can talk about it till they’re blue in the face, but once a suit has made up his mind, there’s virtually no chance of changing it. Moving on means doing as they suggested and buyng other competitor’s products. P & L statements (especially the L) get big-wig’s attention. A handful of pissed-off customers on a user’s forum won’t.

 

To be honnest  we don’t know who said what within Sansa.   If the discussion is received at the right levels its very possible we will see a fix.    I think Sansa should be concerned about its quality and customers.   When the best you can do is be 20 cents off pitch and your competition can do way better, they better be concerned.  If there was a fix back in feb.   They should just get on with it and bring it out.   They have probably wasted enough time talking about it and no action.   You would be supprised how quickly something like this can be fixed if they want to take care of their customers. 

@niko_sama wrote:

 

To be honnest  we don’t know who said what within Sansa.   If the discussion is received at the right levels its very possible we will see a fix.    I think Sansa should be concerned about its quality and customers.   When the best you can do is be 20 cents off pitch and your competition can do way better, they better be concerned.  If there was a fix back in feb.   They should just get on with it and bring it out.   They have probably wasted enough time talking about it and no action.   You would be supprised how quickly something like this can be fixed if they want to take care of their customers. 

 

I agree 100% with everything you’ve said here. But (copying the original post from slotmonsta ), I believe we can and do know who said what regarding this issue:

Over the last few days there have been several meetings with Engineering, Marketing, and Product Management regarding the pitch issue some users have seen. Please see below a statement regarding the decision that was reached as a result of these meetings.

(This was obviously written by slotmonsta)

At SanDisk, our goal with our Sansa MP3 product line is to provide products which deliver a quality consumer experience at price points which are accessible to the majority of the population.  Our “value” positioning has served us well historically, although we acknowledge that occasionally our products do not live up to some users’ expectations.  The issues raised on this Forum regarding sound fidelity are important to us however due to trade-off decisions that were made in engineering these products to deliver superior consumer value at what we believe are extremely attractive price points, our sound fidelity isn’t perfect.  We have re-evaluated the possibility of reducing the pitch variation and due to the engineering trade-offs the decision was made to stay with the current design. Very few listeners, however, have noticed or complained about it as an issue in actual practice.  For those who can detect sound differences with their naked ears during actual use and not via frequency analysis, our products may not be the best choice for them.

There’s no doubt a ‘suit’ wrote or composed this. It just smacks of higher-education, lower-common sense attitude that an overpaid mucky-muck who wants to impress the common masses & stock-holders by using political-dance-all-around-the-question-withoout-ever-directly-answering-it would use. Even so, I get his (or her) meaning crystal clear.

Should SanDisk be concerned about it’s quality and customers? Absolutely YES!

Do they appear as though they do? Not by this statement, but we’re not privy to what goes on in those meetings and how decisions are reached.

Does SanDisk want to take care of it’s customers? Given the past interaction by slotmonsta in helping people get their RMA pushed through when they were having problems, I’d say some representatives of the company do indeed care . . . a lot. However, given the tone of the above ‘canned’ statement, it seems that sentiment is not shared all the way up the corporate ladder.