Sansa Clip Firmware Update

niko_sama wrote: 

 

Why did they shelf the work that had already ben done.    They have the fix…   They did tests on the fix.  They had quantifiable numbers regarding the fix.   7 months ago.     What happened?   I believe Sansa dropped the ball on this one and i can’t understand the logic.     You had the fix…   Why not take care of your customers, and improve your product.

The improvement for this issue was never actually coded into the firmware. There was a potential improvement identified however this actually never made it in to the code. There is no elusive firmware that is sitting on the shelf. 

FYI, sansafix is no longer working with SanDisk. (If you will notice the VIP status was removed from his account and he has not posted lately) Some comments that were made, although well intended, may not have actually made it in to production.    

        Forum Admin

         slotmonsta 

Message Edited by slotmonsta on 09-24-2009 04:12 PM

just a note for you slotmonsta, statements like that do not make sadisk/sansa look any better, infact they tent to make most people even less happy with the company and believe that there probably was/is a fix that your just not giving them.

I do believe that it never made it into any kind of finished firmware code state, most likely because applying it would force sansa to change the specs of the clip to show even shorter batt life, smart move, since most people I know would prefer the pitch be a little off(that they dont/cant notice) in trade for the batt lasting longer.

My advice, make a post explaining exactly why the fix isnt going to be applied, be HONEST, people may not like the reasons BUT they will applicate HONESTY and forthrightness, where they do not appricate vauge reasons/excuses.

@azuresky wrote:

I do believe that it never made it into any kind of finished firmware code state, most likely because applying it would force sansa to change the specs of the clip to show even shorter batt life, smart move, since most people I know would prefer the pitch be a little off(that they dont/cant notice) in trade for the batt lasting longer.

What was the estimated decrease in battery life for the pitch fix?  I thought it was 3%.  In which case SanDisk would’ve had to change the published battery life of the Clip from “up to 15 hours of playtime” to “up to 14 and a half hours of playtime”.  I’m not sure how many people this would have driven off.  My guess is it was some other reason. 

While we all have a full attention to this thread now, how about releasing a firmware with “Folder” support? Shouldn’t be that difficult? No trade-offs? AFAIK this functionality was requested by many on this forum and elsewhere… and it was already implemented in the firmware updates for other Sandisk products. Show us, SanDisk, that you still listen to your loyal customers and didn’t drop us dead in the water.

-albertr

@slotmonsta wrote:


niko_sama wrote: 

 

Why did they shelf the work that had already ben done.    They have the fix…   They did tests on the fix.  They had quantifiable numbers regarding the fix.   7 months ago.     What happened?   I believe Sansa dropped the ball on this one and i can’t understand the logic.     You had the fix…   Why not take care of your customers, and improve your product.


The improvement for this issue was never actually coded into the firmware. There was a potential improvement identified however this actually never made it in to the code. There is no elusive firmware that is sitting on the shelf. 

FYI, sansafix is no longer working with SanDisk. (If you will notice the VIP status was removed from his account and he has not posted lately) Some comments that were made, although well intended, may not have actually made it in to production.    

        Forum Admin

         slotmonsta 

Message Edited by slotmonsta on 09-24-2009 04:12 PM

slotmonsta–

Thank you for the follow-up information, as well as communicating the company’s decision earlier this week to begin with.  I think you can understand some of the confusion here, given the earlier understandings of the status of the development of a pitch fix, based on prior SanDisk postings here.

While I wish and would have preferred that SanDisk issue at least a final firmware upgrade for the Clip, including a pitch fix, and again urge SanDisk to do so (now having seen the reactions of its customers, among other considerations which you have seen here), I appreciate SanDisk addressing and clarifying these matters, rather than leaving them hanging.


slotmonsta wrote:

niko_sama wrote: 

 

Why did they shelf the work that had already ben done.    They have the fix…   They did tests on the fix.  They had quantifiable numbers regarding the fix.   7 months ago.     What happened?   I believe Sansa dropped the ball on this one and i can’t understand the logic.     You had the fix…   Why not take care of your customers, and improve your product.

The improvement for this issue was never actually coded into the firmware. There was a potential improvement identified however this actually never made it in to the code. There is no elusive firmware that is sitting on the shelf. 

FYI, sansafix is no longer working with SanDisk. (If you will notice the VIP status was removed from his account and he has not posted lately) Some comments that were made, although well intended, may not have actually made it in to production.    

        Forum Admin

         slotmonsta 

Message Edited by slotmonsta on 09-24-2009 04:12 PM


I’m going to ask one last hard question… 

Did they or didn’t they fix this issue with the Fuze?    The Fuze and Clip share a common ARM cpu,  and also most likely simular code structure and routine libraries for playing back 44.1k files?    I’m under the understanding the fix was created and implemented for the fuze.     And knowning how code is written to be reuseable  it makes me wonder…  if its true the code doesn’t exit…   maybe the fuze never got fixed?

It may just be my misunderstanding.

Slotmonsta?

I don’t claim to speak for anyone but myself – but by the same token, I’d be shocked if a lot of people don’t feel pretty much the same way that I do right about now.

Right now, I feel like we’re being given the mushroom treatment.  I feel like we’ve been given a variety of stories.  I feel like we’ve had one trial balloon after another floated in front of us, in the hopes that we’d buy at least ONE of the “explanations” and then shut up already and leave you alone.

I feel like we were told one story before the product was officially discontinued.  I feel like we were told to hang on, be patient, and TRUST you.

I feel like we were told ANOTHER story after the product was taken out of production.

I feel like Sansa made a danged near instant transition from “top-shelf most-favored vendor of premium grade equipment at reasonable prices” to “just another low-rent outfit trying to blow smoke up my ass.”

I feel like we’re being told that our gear – just recently taken out of production, and still being sold as NEW product, still in the retail channel – is “obsolete” and no longer worthy of continued support.

This, to me, is how I’d feel if I bought a 2008 car in December of 2008, and then in January of 2009, told to get lost and stop bothering them about various design defects, because the car was no longer in production, and was therefore obsolete.

Bottom line: I feel like the whole stinking affair boils down to a case of “We already sold that crap, there’s no reason for us to pretend to care about it anymore.  Shut up, get lost, go away, stop pestering us, we have NEW stuff to sell.”

I sum up the gestalt of the entire mess in the phrase mentioned above:  LOW-RENT.

Nice work, guys.  It’s not every day that a company kicks their MOST loyal customers right square in the privates.

Why I bought my Clip, a few months ago, was because every review I read and every internet forum discussion claimed that this was the best sounding mp3 player money could buy. No review stated that it will be the best sounding mp3 if the pitch issue is solved. People were showing off their audiophile $500-1000 earphones that they used for the Clip, because that was needed for such an outstanding player. Where are those people now? For the past few days I have only seen people claiming that this player is worse than any generic $10 player. Surely, one of those statements must be false.

PickMorel, while I’m hopeful that SanDisk (still might?) release a new Clip firmware with folder support, I’m afraid that you got a point. Let’s see what SanDisk would say. If it turnes out that they dumped Clip support completely (and us, the customers, along with it) then I’ll be voting with my money - there will be no more SanDisk products for me!

-albertr

This is so pathetic.

My browser got bumped, and ended up scrolling way up the page, to an area that had been read and passed on MUCH earlier.

I am NOT in the practice of re-reading old traffic.

Yet, had I NOT accidentally scrolled backwards, I would not have noticed that the management here had EDITED one of MY posts – to insert a THREAT to me – my “one and only warning” or some such  – that unless I obey him I will be deleted from this forum. (I interpreted his messsage as boiling down to “Hey, Pick – you annoyed me – do it again and I’ll show YOU a thing or two.”)

Typical blundering move.  Instread of wrapping their minds around the concept of “the customer is always right” they THREATEN and BULLY their BEST customers – and, I guess to make sure they’ve got the advantage – instead of sending an ACTUAL (private) message, OR, posting an actual REPLY in the thread – thereby ensuring that the thrreat would be SEEN – they bury it in someone ELSE’S post.

That way, the unsuspecting target can say the magic word again – not knowing what words he’s forbidden to utter, and they can they axe his account and say “Well, you were warned.”

Yeah, right.  “Warned.”

Hey, there’s always the chance a target MIGHT accidentally see this kind of “stealth” threat.   Maybe they should just try embedding the threats as HTML comments, to ensure that they’re “in that page” AND, never actually seen?

I have moderated numerous fora. The LAST thing a moderator wants to do is edit someone ELSE’S post.  It’s one thing to bleep out truly offensive material – but to just jump in and start typing away, in a location that no clued moderator would think the target would EVER actually SEE… good grief.

Good grief.

Well, I can’t tell them what to do – and they seem more intent than ever to show us just how deeply they are willing to poke us in the eye.  But I CAN easily predict the “unintended consequences” of any broad scale censorship campaign.

If they decide to shut up the complainers HERE, they need to understand that it’s a BIG internet – and while they can certainly censor the dickens out of THIS little corner…  they should NOT be surprised if the people THEY have abused suddenly start popping up like mushrooms in venues they can NOT censor.

Oh, don’t worry about ME, Your Highness.  I am old, and in poor health, and frankly, your crap is NOT good for my heart.  In short, you won’t “be hearing from my lawyers” unless you literally succeed in killing me, at which point I will have no say in what my WIFE may decide to do.

But for all the younger, healthier people you are apparently perfectly willing to throw under the bus, well, I’ll be extremely surprised if THEY decide to “suffer in silence.”

This is so incredible.  I’ve have lived in seven decades on this earth, but I have NEVER seen a RESPONSIBLE company be SO cavalier toward their KEY customer base.

Message Edited by PickMorel on 09-25-2009 09:57 AM

WOW you really can’t learn to play nice can you.  I sincerely hope you enjoy your vacation.

 Forum Admin

slotmonsta 

Message Edited by slotmonsta on 09-25-2009 10:34 AM

slotmonsta wrote: 


FYI, sansafix is no longer working with SanDisk. (If you will notice the VIP status was removed from his account and he has not posted lately) Some comments that were made, although well intended, may not have actually made it in to production.    

        Forum Admin

        slotmonsta

 

Let’s hope sansafix will support rockbox, his statements on this forum shows that he’s still concerned with SQ.

Message Edited by Kohlrabi on 09-25-2009 07:22 AM

Message Edited by Kohlrabi on 09-25-2009 07:23 AM

PickMorel, with all respect, I think that SanDisk has been more than fair and tolerant on these boards (and remember, these are SanDisk’s boards, not third-party boards):  the criticisms in this very thread being a prime example. 

I got my Sansa Clip because my previous mp3 player stopped working, and when I returned it to Currys in Redhill they did not have a replacement unit. I was therefore offered a Sansa Clip (cost £14 more) which I gladly accepted. Frankly, I have no complaints about this amazing little player at all especially when it plays FLAC, which means all I have to do to torrent downloads is insert tags and then drag & drop straight into the Clip - amazing. It’s also loud through my Tescos headphones 112DB.

May I suggest that some of the posters grow up out of short trousers.

@uncleboko wrote:

I got my Sansa Clip because my previous mp3 player stopped working, and when I returned it to Currys in Redhill they did not have a replacement unit. I was therefore offered a Sansa Clip (cost £14 more) which I gladly accepted. Frankly, I have no complaints about this amazing little player at all especially when it plays FLAC, which means all I have to do to torrent downloads is insert tags and then drag & drop straight into the Clip - amazing. It’s also loud through my Tescos headphones 112DB.

 

May I suggest that some of the posters grow up out of short trousers.

Hear, hear!

And I’d like to add that since this ground has been plowed ad nauseum in various threads, perhaps it is time for those who are unable or unwilling to deal with the Clip in its present incarnation to move on - to another model or to another manufacturer. Vote with your feet if you must, but give the personal stuff a rest, okay?

Message Edited by Pollyanna on 09-25-2009 04:14 PM

 perhaps it is time for those who are unable or unwilling to deal with the Clip in its present incarnation to move on - to another model or to another manufacturer. 

 Given the title, many of the posts in this thread are going to be about a firmware update for the Clip.  If  you don’t enjoy reading such posts…  well, you saw the sign on the door.

 

It looks like, understandable given the times, Sansa is looking to save where ever possible.  Apparently they consider porting the firmware fixes already made for Fuze and/or Clip+ to Clips still under warrantee (or still on store shelves)  as a place to cut back.

I suspect that the next firmware update for Clip will contain most all the fixes people have asked for, and it will come from Rockbox.

 

@donp wrote:

Given the title, many of the posts in this thread are going to be about a firmware update for the Clip.  If  you don’t enjoy reading such posts…  well, you saw the sign on the door…

Well, see, that’s the thing. I didn’t see any such sign on the door. This is one of the threads I monitor here because I’m interested in “Firmware Updates,” not rending of garments, beating of breasts, analysis of capitalism and corporate profit-making, name-calling, personal attacks and general noise-making and mopery.

I appreciate the prompt help I got from folks here when I first got my Clip and had questions; I’m happy with the product when taking into account previous firmware support and overall value for price paid; I’ll continue to put in my two cents if the spirit moves me when people bitch and moan. YMMV

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.  Cheers.

@pollyanna wrote:


@donp wrote:

Given the title, many of the posts in this thread are going to be about a firmware update for the Clip.  If  you don’t enjoy reading such posts…  well, you saw the sign on the door…


Well, see, that’s the thing. I didn’t see any such sign on the door. This is one of the threads I monitor here because I’m interested in “Firmware Updates,” not rending of garments, beating of breasts, analysis of capitalism and corporate profit-making, name-calling, personal attacks and general noise-making and mopery.

 

I appreciate the prompt help I got from folks here when I first got my Clip and had questions; I’m happy with the product when taking into account previous firmware support and overall value for price paid; I’ll continue to put in my two cents if the spirit moves me when people pitch and moan. YMMV

 

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.  Cheers.

*smiles*  So are you moaning about people who are bitching and moaning?     LOL.   

Forum works best when everyone has freedom to post whats important to them,   even your viewpoint.  The people posting here are here with a good purpose.   To request Sansa to release a fix concerning a sound quality issue.  They aren’t evil,  they are trying to better the product.   

I’m not trying to intimidate you from posting, but I notice there are many people that post here that moan about people who bitch and moan,  maybe they think its their duty to decide what is worthy to post here.   Personally I think we should respect other people and allow them to post and not tell them  that they are cluttering up a forum thread with things you personally don’t wish to be bothered with.  No one here owns this forum so feel free to post what is important to you.   >.<  LOL.

Enjoy your product and be happy knowing that many improvements to the Sansa Clip came by way of customers requests on this forum through the bitching and moaning process.

In my opinion, Sound quality issues like the pitch variance,  should be something Sansa should step up and take care.   Here is why I believe this: 

I’m sure a music company wouldn’t sell a musical instrument that couldn’t play in tune.    Sure people could play it.   Most wouldn’t even know its out of tune.    But when you hear the original song with the reproduced one its noticeable.  When you hear a competitor’s product spec is 20 times better than Sansa’s product you want them to address the issue.   Sansa knows how to fix it.    Its already been noted that it can be done without a noticeable effect in battery power.    I’ve perfomed serveral battery tests on 3 Sansa clips.    Customers will never notice a less than 3% battery power difference.   My clips get around 20 hours playtime with 128k encoded mp3s and 15-17 hours with V2 encoded mp3s.

I’m confident Sansa will step-up and make the right decision and fix this sound quality issue.   This is the type of issue that gives manufacturers a black eye.    They built a reputation surrounding the clip’s ARM processor and benefited by reviews that boasting its superior sound quality (even if it was 20 cents off pitch).  This reputation of the Clip benefited them, it differentiated their product from the competition.  The problem is this quality issue won’t go away, they never do, and concerned sansas customers will notice how Sansa goes about handling this issue. They will be measured by it, and this issues will follow onto new products such as the clip+.   Reviewers will be smarter and examine this issue as well,  they will be measured against the competition and this issue will be debated endlessly. 

In my opinion, It would be a move in the wrong direction not to fix this.  Will I lose sleep over this issue?  No obviously not.   But I do think this quality issue won’t go away,  I just hope Sansa fixes it now ,  rather than later.    Restore customers faith in their products quality, and bring their quality specs up to match their competitors.  

I enjoy black friday shopping at best buy and the clip was a great value for the price.  And I thought Sansa had great sound quality, but now im disolusioned looking at the specs.   19-20 cents off pitch vs  <1 cent off on the Ipod.  Humans pitch detection kicks in around 5 cents.   This means I may not notice it, but if I listen to the original reproduction vs the clips reproduction I will hear the difference.  We know it can be fixed.  It’s just a matter of Sansa getting it fixed. 

I am not impressed with Sansas last communications and thinking it was a bad business decision,  how hard is it to fix the firmware.  It’s allowing me to feel that Sansa is making second rate decisions concerning the clip’s quality and performance.   I am pro clip, but this news is disconcerting and i’m starting to open my eyes and look at new products,  something I haven’t done in along while.   I was content to stick with my Clip’s.   Who knows, maybe I will find something I like better.   Specs may not be detected by your customers Sansa,  But measureing up to your competition is important.  Please fix this.

Cheers

Edited for grammer and some spelling ><   i suck at english >.>

Message Edited by niko_sama on 09-26-2009 05:02 AM

"I enjoy black friday shopping at best buy and the clip was a great value for the price.  And I thought Sansa had great sound quality, but now im disolusioned looking at the specs.   19-20 cents off pitch vs  <1 cent off on the Ipod.  Humans pitch detection kicks in around 5 cents.   This means I may not notice it, but if I listen to the original reproduction vs the clips reproduction I will hear the difference.  We know it can be fixed.  It’s just a matter of Sansa getting it fixed. "

Bingo.  That’s my case.  I don’t really do any downloading of music, I rip my own (legally bought) CDs and do an MP3 conversion with LAME.  One disc that just jumped out that sounded “wrong” was the re-mastered version of the Rolling Stones’ “Their Satanic Majesties Request”, in particular “She’s a Rainbow”.  The tempo just sounded off, way off, and Jagger’s vocals sounded draggy on my Clip.  The Beatles’ “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band” also had some songs that really sounded slow too.  I figured either my WAV file rips were messed up, something was off in the MP3 conversion, or I was just hearing things that weren’t there.  I figured no way a well-known name brand MP3 player would be off like this.

I listened to the WAVs and MP3s again on my PC and then tried the same MP3s that were on my Clip on a 3 yr. old Creative Zen Nano Plus.  The files sounded just fine (pitch/tempo wise) on the PC and Zen but just plain off tempo on my Clip.  Then I look on this forum and found other complaining of the same thing.

I’m not a professional musician, I don’t have “perfect pitch”.  But even I was able to detect this, in particular with music I was familar.  I’m betting there are others that are in the same boat and don’t complain here.  It’s pretty sad that Sandisk seems to not really care that their players don’t do a basic function properly, play at proper pitch/tempo, when competitors at similar price points with similar features can do the same (and even cheapie players get this right).  And my Creative, by the way, does the same basic things the Clip can.  It has an FM radio, records voice, has a 5 band graphic equalizer and can even do MP3 encoding on the fly inside it’s tiny package of a CD via the line input, something the Clip cannot do.  It just doesn’t have the biggest memory capacity (1GB), hence why I got my 8GB Clip.  Plus the user interface/display of the Clip is nicer.  I’m just dissapointed that Sandisk doesn’t match the Zen’s sound quality and hence why I won’t bother looking to Sandisk for any products in the future.

I think you can ask most clip users and a lot of them will tell you that they own 2 or more clips or fuzes.  They are the one’s that are most likely to buy the new clip+ and any other new Sansa products and recommend them to other people.  But with the attitude of Sansa’s recent statement they are alienating a lot of loyal customers.  We don’t need more cheap mp3 players.  The market is already saturated with them.  We need quality products at an affordable price.

My 4GB Clip has served me well for more than a year, but now that development has halted for it, I’ve moved on up to the Zune HD. Thanks everyone for the helpful tips and such!