Sansa Clip Firmware Update

@miikerman wrote:

This is all so odd–given the above, why wasn’t the fix made?  Perhaps a concern over the lower battery duration, from a marketing perspective?

 

Having said that, it is unclear to me that SanDisk will reverse itself–its various committees already convened and made a determination, presumably with, among other things, the above information in hand.   The company would need to be given a reason and a motivation to go the other way.

i dough thats true.    They probably didn’t have the right people in the meeting or they weren’t asking the right questions.     Maybe they were too busy thinking about lunch or golf on friday.       If the above is copyied to the right level,   vp engineering directors etc.   maybe the right questions will be asked. and answered.

committees?  lol wtf…  its was probably one engineering director or manager asking a couple engineers and maybe those engineers present didn’t have the answers.    Or very possible it was just a managers response in email to his boss saying the issue was not important and they were maxed out on on other issues / work load.  

If Sansafix said there was no noticable effect on battery life, i believe what he said.  

If i was the director I would find out what happened to the fix.   And it would get done.    It would be nice to copy the VP’s and Directors some of the history on this issue…  its possible we know more about it than they do.

@miikerman wrote:

This is all so odd–given the above, why wasn’t the fix made?  Perhaps a concern over the lower battery duration, from a marketing perspective?

 

 

Could be the person(s) that wrote the fix got laid off.

 As far as being a “value” brand, they do have to pick what things they invest in.  But I can’t help notice that of the other players people tested for comparison, none came anywhere near the error displayed by Clip and Fuze.  Do they really want the reputation of being “worst on the market by a long shot” wrt pitch?  

I’m curious to know if ANY other player at any price point has equivalent or greater error.  I don’t know what other brand uses AMS chips or if that’s a key factor.

Has anyone tested Fuze or Clip with Rockbox for this?  

 Speaking of Rockbox, a new release just came out with enhancements to pitch correction, and a tuner plugin that displays the note and cents error of the note coming in the microphone.  

 

 

@niko_sama wrote:

 

Please Sansa don’t take the easy way out when you already had a fix for this.

How meaningful is it to imply that a company is taking the “easy way out”?  Companies take the profitable way out.  That’s what they do.  That’s their meaning for existance.  Evidently, SanDisk decided that it would be more profitable to them to not release the pitch fix. 

Now some people are falling on the side of “gee I really want it but I’m not going to get it, that’s too bad” while others seem to be implying that SanDisk has misled people through statements that imply that the audio quality of the Clip is better than it actually is.

To the former, I’d say that that’s capitalism, and it’s a bummer that things have turned out this way for you … maybe you can sell your Clip on eBay and get one of those cheaper MP3 players with better audio quality.

To the latter, I’d say go ahead and make your case, but … do you really have to make it here?  If you’re thinking about some kind of legal action or whatever … is a SanDisk-maintained user forum really the best place to do it?

Its very possible it was a uninformed and understimated decision.   YES    the easy way out is post a statement that doesn’t match the history about the issue.    Why on earth would you say due to Engineering trade offs.   When 7 months earlier a product engineer stated its fixible with little effect on battery life.    It doesn’t add up.   Someone made the wrong decision.   plain and simple.

lol.   Yes I think this forum is the best place for it to appear.    I’d like a clear description why they didn’t fix it when they already had done the work.  It defies logic.

This forum is also a feedback into Sansa, and I have every intention to voice what i think is important.   as far as you questioning me if this was nessasary,  its non of ur business what i do.     LOL

@promisedplanet wrote:

 

To the latter, I’d say go ahead and make your case, but … do you really have to make it here?  If you’re thinking about some kind of legal action or whatever … is a SanDisk-maintained user forum really the best place to do it?

I’m not sure what kind of disinformation you are trying to start…    but whatever weed you are smoking to come up with this statement , i want some.     this made no sence to what i posted.  Where on gods green earth did you come up with this crap?

This stops here. This is not the place for arguments or personal attacks.

 

Forum Admin

slotmonsta 

Message Edited by slotmonsta on 09-24-2009 10:10 AM

@niko_sama wrote:


@promisedplanet wrote:

 

To the latter, I’d say go ahead and make your case, but … do you really have to make it here?  If you’re thinking about some kind of legal action or whatever … is a SanDisk-maintained user forum really the best place to do it?


I’m not sure what kind of disinformation you are trying to start…    but whatever weed you are smoking to come up with this statement , i want some.     this made no sence to what i posted.  Where on gods green earth did you come up with this crap?

 

This stops here. This is not the place for arguments or personal attacks.

 

Forum Admin

slotmonsta 

Message Edited by slotmonsta on 09-24-2009 10:10 AM

No attack was created with my statements.    Him infereing i was building a case and talking about something legal and no basis in my post and I still don’t understand how he made that up from my post.    But since I have your attention.   Would you take back the question that begs to be answered… 

Why did they shelf the work that had already ben done.    They have the fix…   They did tests on the fix.  They had quantifiable numbers regarding the fix.   7 months ago.     What happened?   I believe Sansa dropped the ball on this one and i can’t understand the logic.     You had the fix…   Why not take care of your customers, and improve your product.

Thanks, niko_sama, for keeping things on point and pointing to the issues. 

@miikerman wrote:
Thanks, niko_sama, for keeping things on point and pointing to the issues. 

:slight_smile: smiles  I’m good :)   I know its the hard question to ask our friends at Sansa,   And I know the people from Sansa that monitor this forum can only do so much,    But they are the ones who can get us the correct info.  I hope they don’t feel picked on.    We depend on them and appreciate their efforts.

Slotmonsta,  SansaFix,  uSansa    we all love you :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah, we shouldn’t shoot the messenger, this ain’t Sparta.

niko_sama wrote: 

 

Why did they shelf the work that had already ben done.    They have the fix…   They did tests on the fix.  They had quantifiable numbers regarding the fix.   7 months ago.     What happened?   I believe Sansa dropped the ball on this one and i can’t understand the logic.     You had the fix…   Why not take care of your customers, and improve your product.

The improvement for this issue was never actually coded into the firmware. There was a potential improvement identified however this actually never made it in to the code. There is no elusive firmware that is sitting on the shelf. 

FYI, sansafix is no longer working with SanDisk. (If you will notice the VIP status was removed from his account and he has not posted lately) Some comments that were made, although well intended, may not have actually made it in to production.    

        Forum Admin

         slotmonsta 

Message Edited by slotmonsta on 09-24-2009 04:12 PM

just a note for you slotmonsta, statements like that do not make sadisk/sansa look any better, infact they tent to make most people even less happy with the company and believe that there probably was/is a fix that your just not giving them.

I do believe that it never made it into any kind of finished firmware code state, most likely because applying it would force sansa to change the specs of the clip to show even shorter batt life, smart move, since most people I know would prefer the pitch be a little off(that they dont/cant notice) in trade for the batt lasting longer.

My advice, make a post explaining exactly why the fix isnt going to be applied, be HONEST, people may not like the reasons BUT they will applicate HONESTY and forthrightness, where they do not appricate vauge reasons/excuses.

@azuresky wrote:

I do believe that it never made it into any kind of finished firmware code state, most likely because applying it would force sansa to change the specs of the clip to show even shorter batt life, smart move, since most people I know would prefer the pitch be a little off(that they dont/cant notice) in trade for the batt lasting longer.

What was the estimated decrease in battery life for the pitch fix?  I thought it was 3%.  In which case SanDisk would’ve had to change the published battery life of the Clip from “up to 15 hours of playtime” to “up to 14 and a half hours of playtime”.  I’m not sure how many people this would have driven off.  My guess is it was some other reason. 

While we all have a full attention to this thread now, how about releasing a firmware with “Folder” support? Shouldn’t be that difficult? No trade-offs? AFAIK this functionality was requested by many on this forum and elsewhere… and it was already implemented in the firmware updates for other Sandisk products. Show us, SanDisk, that you still listen to your loyal customers and didn’t drop us dead in the water.

-albertr

@slotmonsta wrote:


niko_sama wrote: 

 

Why did they shelf the work that had already ben done.    They have the fix…   They did tests on the fix.  They had quantifiable numbers regarding the fix.   7 months ago.     What happened?   I believe Sansa dropped the ball on this one and i can’t understand the logic.     You had the fix…   Why not take care of your customers, and improve your product.


The improvement for this issue was never actually coded into the firmware. There was a potential improvement identified however this actually never made it in to the code. There is no elusive firmware that is sitting on the shelf. 

FYI, sansafix is no longer working with SanDisk. (If you will notice the VIP status was removed from his account and he has not posted lately) Some comments that were made, although well intended, may not have actually made it in to production.    

        Forum Admin

         slotmonsta 

Message Edited by slotmonsta on 09-24-2009 04:12 PM

slotmonsta–

Thank you for the follow-up information, as well as communicating the company’s decision earlier this week to begin with.  I think you can understand some of the confusion here, given the earlier understandings of the status of the development of a pitch fix, based on prior SanDisk postings here.

While I wish and would have preferred that SanDisk issue at least a final firmware upgrade for the Clip, including a pitch fix, and again urge SanDisk to do so (now having seen the reactions of its customers, among other considerations which you have seen here), I appreciate SanDisk addressing and clarifying these matters, rather than leaving them hanging.


slotmonsta wrote:

niko_sama wrote: 

 

Why did they shelf the work that had already ben done.    They have the fix…   They did tests on the fix.  They had quantifiable numbers regarding the fix.   7 months ago.     What happened?   I believe Sansa dropped the ball on this one and i can’t understand the logic.     You had the fix…   Why not take care of your customers, and improve your product.

The improvement for this issue was never actually coded into the firmware. There was a potential improvement identified however this actually never made it in to the code. There is no elusive firmware that is sitting on the shelf. 

FYI, sansafix is no longer working with SanDisk. (If you will notice the VIP status was removed from his account and he has not posted lately) Some comments that were made, although well intended, may not have actually made it in to production.    

        Forum Admin

         slotmonsta 

Message Edited by slotmonsta on 09-24-2009 04:12 PM


I’m going to ask one last hard question… 

Did they or didn’t they fix this issue with the Fuze?    The Fuze and Clip share a common ARM cpu,  and also most likely simular code structure and routine libraries for playing back 44.1k files?    I’m under the understanding the fix was created and implemented for the fuze.     And knowning how code is written to be reuseable  it makes me wonder…  if its true the code doesn’t exit…   maybe the fuze never got fixed?

It may just be my misunderstanding.

Slotmonsta?

I don’t claim to speak for anyone but myself – but by the same token, I’d be shocked if a lot of people don’t feel pretty much the same way that I do right about now.

Right now, I feel like we’re being given the mushroom treatment.  I feel like we’ve been given a variety of stories.  I feel like we’ve had one trial balloon after another floated in front of us, in the hopes that we’d buy at least ONE of the “explanations” and then shut up already and leave you alone.

I feel like we were told one story before the product was officially discontinued.  I feel like we were told to hang on, be patient, and TRUST you.

I feel like we were told ANOTHER story after the product was taken out of production.

I feel like Sansa made a danged near instant transition from “top-shelf most-favored vendor of premium grade equipment at reasonable prices” to “just another low-rent outfit trying to blow smoke up my ass.”

I feel like we’re being told that our gear – just recently taken out of production, and still being sold as NEW product, still in the retail channel – is “obsolete” and no longer worthy of continued support.

This, to me, is how I’d feel if I bought a 2008 car in December of 2008, and then in January of 2009, told to get lost and stop bothering them about various design defects, because the car was no longer in production, and was therefore obsolete.

Bottom line: I feel like the whole stinking affair boils down to a case of “We already sold that crap, there’s no reason for us to pretend to care about it anymore.  Shut up, get lost, go away, stop pestering us, we have NEW stuff to sell.”

I sum up the gestalt of the entire mess in the phrase mentioned above:  LOW-RENT.

Nice work, guys.  It’s not every day that a company kicks their MOST loyal customers right square in the privates.

Why I bought my Clip, a few months ago, was because every review I read and every internet forum discussion claimed that this was the best sounding mp3 player money could buy. No review stated that it will be the best sounding mp3 if the pitch issue is solved. People were showing off their audiophile $500-1000 earphones that they used for the Clip, because that was needed for such an outstanding player. Where are those people now? For the past few days I have only seen people claiming that this player is worse than any generic $10 player. Surely, one of those statements must be false.

PickMorel, while I’m hopeful that SanDisk (still might?) release a new Clip firmware with folder support, I’m afraid that you got a point. Let’s see what SanDisk would say. If it turnes out that they dumped Clip support completely (and us, the customers, along with it) then I’ll be voting with my money - there will be no more SanDisk products for me!

-albertr

This is so pathetic.

My browser got bumped, and ended up scrolling way up the page, to an area that had been read and passed on MUCH earlier.

I am NOT in the practice of re-reading old traffic.

Yet, had I NOT accidentally scrolled backwards, I would not have noticed that the management here had EDITED one of MY posts – to insert a THREAT to me – my “one and only warning” or some such  – that unless I obey him I will be deleted from this forum. (I interpreted his messsage as boiling down to “Hey, Pick – you annoyed me – do it again and I’ll show YOU a thing or two.”)

Typical blundering move.  Instread of wrapping their minds around the concept of “the customer is always right” they THREATEN and BULLY their BEST customers – and, I guess to make sure they’ve got the advantage – instead of sending an ACTUAL (private) message, OR, posting an actual REPLY in the thread – thereby ensuring that the thrreat would be SEEN – they bury it in someone ELSE’S post.

That way, the unsuspecting target can say the magic word again – not knowing what words he’s forbidden to utter, and they can they axe his account and say “Well, you were warned.”

Yeah, right.  “Warned.”

Hey, there’s always the chance a target MIGHT accidentally see this kind of “stealth” threat.   Maybe they should just try embedding the threats as HTML comments, to ensure that they’re “in that page” AND, never actually seen?

I have moderated numerous fora. The LAST thing a moderator wants to do is edit someone ELSE’S post.  It’s one thing to bleep out truly offensive material – but to just jump in and start typing away, in a location that no clued moderator would think the target would EVER actually SEE… good grief.

Good grief.

Well, I can’t tell them what to do – and they seem more intent than ever to show us just how deeply they are willing to poke us in the eye.  But I CAN easily predict the “unintended consequences” of any broad scale censorship campaign.

If they decide to shut up the complainers HERE, they need to understand that it’s a BIG internet – and while they can certainly censor the dickens out of THIS little corner…  they should NOT be surprised if the people THEY have abused suddenly start popping up like mushrooms in venues they can NOT censor.

Oh, don’t worry about ME, Your Highness.  I am old, and in poor health, and frankly, your crap is NOT good for my heart.  In short, you won’t “be hearing from my lawyers” unless you literally succeed in killing me, at which point I will have no say in what my WIFE may decide to do.

But for all the younger, healthier people you are apparently perfectly willing to throw under the bus, well, I’ll be extremely surprised if THEY decide to “suffer in silence.”

This is so incredible.  I’ve have lived in seven decades on this earth, but I have NEVER seen a RESPONSIBLE company be SO cavalier toward their KEY customer base.

Message Edited by PickMorel on 09-25-2009 09:57 AM

WOW you really can’t learn to play nice can you.  I sincerely hope you enjoy your vacation.

 Forum Admin

slotmonsta 

Message Edited by slotmonsta on 09-25-2009 10:34 AM