SanDisk Developing 128 GB Micro-SD!!!!

@sansafix wrote:
This limit can be increased in Firmware.  We are expecting a significant increase (target is 8000 songs) by Q1,  2009.

Glad to hear this will be fixed in a firmware update. But isn’t targetting 8000 songs a bit short-sighted? In a year or so when people try to fill their 64 GB cards they will hit the limit again, and you might have stopped releasing firmware updates by then.

Why is there a song limit at all? Or if there has to be one, why isn’t it some ridiculous high number like 65536 or even higher?

Do other non-Sansa players have similar limits?

They all have limits.

These players dont have the kind of power that makes this problem seem simple like on a PC.

They have limited memory spaces, and the filesystems slow down linearly with content.

Do you remember when your PC had only 360K of RAM ? Or ran at 250 MHz?

To make your database access quickly its held in RAM.  As the database grows,  it consumes up all the available memory.

if we start swapping things in and out,  using a virtual memory manager,  it will slow down the UI response speed.

So what I am telling you is we are working on it, but this generation of technology will allow us to only get so far.

Message Edited by sansafix on 12-11-2008 03:26 PM

@fifer wrote:


@jk98 wrote:

I wouldn’t say it is misleading except if an ad suggests adding a 16 gig card to the player but doesn’t mention the song limit. Enough people use 192 kbps or a higher bitrate and have songs averaging over 5 minutes long, so even with 24 gigs storage in the player and the memory full, the song count is still below 4,000.


Sorry, but I’m not buying that. SanDisk make the Fuze with a card slot and Sandisk make 16GB cards. It’s unimaginable that they haven’t considered customers using one with the other. I can get more than 4120 192kbps Ogg Vorbis tracks into 24GB easily. Most people rip for portable players at a lower rate. Almost every DAP manufacturer estimates capacity based on rates less than 192kbps. I can’t see how Sansa aren’t misleading customers at best.

They weren’t making 16gb cards when they introduced the Fuze. I have 16.5 GB of music ,and it’s less than 4,000 tracks, so as they originally introduced it, it wasn’t misleading in the least. And to generalize like “most people rip at lower bitrates” is a stretch…JK98 was correct, a lot of people do rip at higher bitrates or have longer songs. You should be grateful that they are addressing the issue, as opposed to being petulant about the whole thing:stuck_out_tongue:

@marvin_martian wrote:


@fifer wrote:


@jk98 wrote:

I wouldn’t say it is misleading except if an ad suggests adding a 16 gig card to the player but doesn’t mention the song limit. Enough people use 192 kbps or a higher bitrate and have songs averaging over 5 minutes long, so even with 24 gigs storage in the player and the memory full, the song count is still below 4,000.


Sorry, but I’m not buying that. SanDisk make the Fuze with a card slot and Sandisk make 16GB cards. It’s unimaginable that they haven’t considered customers using one with the other. I can get more than 4120 192kbps Ogg Vorbis tracks into 24GB easily. Most people rip for portable players at a lower rate. Almost every DAP manufacturer estimates capacity based on rates less than 192kbps. I can’t see how Sansa aren’t misleading customers at best.


They weren’t making 16gb cards when they introduced the Fuze. I have 16.5 GB of music ,and it’s less than 4,000 tracks, so as they originally introduced it, it wasn’t misleading in the least. And to generalize like “most people rip at lower bitrates” is a stretch…JK98 was correct, a lot of people do rip at higher bitrates or have longer songs. You should be grateful that they are addressing the issue, as opposed to being petulant about the whole thing:stuck_out_tongue:

They were making 16GB cards when I bought my Fuze with no warning of the limit, which SanDisk were aware of. I did not 'generalise, but stated that I rip at 192kbps and have encountered the limit. It is a fact that most DAP users do rip at lower bit rates. I don’t believe I’m being petulant, but have a legitimate complaint. I appreciate it is being addressed, but had Sansa been upfront about the limit, I wouldn’t have purchased the product.

I’m with you, Fifer.  There was no mention of the 4,000-song limit when I got in the market, either, so I bought an 8 GB Fuze with another 8GB on a microSD card and loaded them up with 12,000 WMA files – my entire CD collection – only to find it can only “see” a third of them.  To say I feel ripped off is an understatement.

And while I appreciate the fact that some work is being done to address this, the Q1 2009 firmware update announced by Sansafix will still only bring the capacity up to 8,000 songs.  If raising the limit any higher is a problem because reading the database causes the unit to run out of memory, then there needs to be an option allowing us more-advanced users to bypass the database approach altogether and simply navigate folders.

Otherwise we are stuck with these crippled machines, purchased with the understanding that their capacity is much higher than it truly is.  Let us get what we paid for.

Message Edited by dennisqwilson on 12-11-2008 05:07 PM

Message Edited by dennisqwilson on 12-11-2008 05:08 PM

Yes, you’re going to listen to all 4,000 songs at once. My heart goes out to you for not being able to load gargantuan amounts of music onto a simplistic MP3 player, it must be so terrible to be unable to load 90,000 songs on it. I can’t imagine the pain you must be going through. Do you need a hug?

@sansafix wrote:
This limit can be increased in Firmware.  We are expecting a significant increase (target is 8000 songs) by Q1,  2009.
Message Edited by sansafix on 12-11-2008 12:06 PM

Thank you, Sansafix.

@aircraftkiller wrote:
Yes, you’re going to listen to all 4,000 songs at once. My heart goes out to you for not being able to load gargantuan amounts of music onto a simplistic MP3 player, it must be so terrible to be unable to load 90,000 songs on it. I can’t imagine the pain you must be going through. Do you need a hug?

When choosing Play All + Shuffle, then effectively yes I am desiring to listen to any/all 4,000 songs at once.  Please advise on your listening habits so that I may be equally derisive and dismissive of your needs…

@dennisqwilson wrote:

I’m with you, Fifer.  There was no mention of the 4,000-song limit when I got in the market, either, so I bought an 8 GB Fuze with another 8GB on a microSD card and loaded them up with 12,000 WMA files – my entire CD collection – only to find it can only “see” a third of them.  To say I feel ripped off is an understatement.

 

And while I appreciate the fact that some work is being done to address this, the Q1 2009 firmware update announced by Sansafix will still only bring the capacity up to 8,000 songs.  If raising the limit any higher is a problem because reading the database causes the unit to run out of memory, then there needs to be an option allowing us more-advanced users to bypass the database approach altogether and simply navigate folders.

 

Otherwise we are stuck with these crippled machines, purchased with the understanding that their capacity is much higher than it truly is.  Let us get what we paid for.

Message Edited by dennisqwilson on 12-11-2008 05:07 PM

Message Edited by dennisqwilson on 12-11-2008 05:08 PM

12,000? in 16GB? Holy crap!If you’re ripping them at that low bitrate, you’ve gotta be missing out on the sound quality that the Fuze is so well regarded for. A lot of people rip at higher bitrates once they become “more advanced users” because they learn to appreciate what sound the Fuze is capable of producing. I won’t debate tags vs. folders, because I have never had a player with folder navigation. However, I don’t feel the Fuze is crippled at all…I have definitely gotten what I paid for, and then some:smiley:

@aircraftkiller wrote:
Yes, you’re going to listen to all 4,000 songs at once. My heart goes out to you for not being able to load gargantuan amounts of music onto a simplistic MP3 player, it must be so terrible to be unable to load 90,000 songs on it. I can’t imagine the pain you must be going through. Do you need a hug?

Aircraftkiller, I’m happy that the Fuze meets your expectations.  It has not met mine.  In offering capacity we cannot use, it is a poor value, like owning a six-room house of which four are bricked shut.

You can use it depending on what quality levels you’ve chosen. God forbid you listen to only 2,000 songs instead of 40,000. I can’t imagine how long it must take you to even approach listening to 500 songs in a row, and if you aren’t listening to it all at once then you’ve got little reason to complain - go back to your computer and reload it with the songs you didn’t add, or replace the songs you aren’t as fond of in the player.

@aircraftkiller wrote:
You can use it depending on what quality levels you’ve chosen. God forbid you listen to only 2,000 songs instead of 40,000. I can’t imagine how long it must take you to even approach listening to 500 songs in a row, and if you aren’t listening to it all at once then you’ve got little reason to complain - go back to your computer and reload it with the songs you didn’t add, or replace the songs you aren’t as fond of in the player.

That’s a good point…divide the 12,000 songs into 3 folders, and sync-swap as necessary…doesn’t seem like rocket science:wink:

I am glad the limit is being raised to 8,000 songs by the end of the year. I have reconsidered the matter, and now I feel that  the song limit should have been printed on the box, and listed in the specifications, even though I haven’t seen this publicised for any other players with a card slot. 8,000 is a reasonable limit, which will support 24 gigs of music averaging around 3.25 minutes per song at 128 kbps. those who want to use less than 128 kbps and have an average song length that is short still won’t be happy though.

Look, while I admit that SanDisk could have been more up-front with the song limit, you still have to applaud their efforts.  I can certainly understand what sansafix is trying to say, that at the time this was designed, 4,000 songs for any flash player is insane.  Even now, the largest flash Ipods are only 16GB, and they’re both new and expensive.  Such capacities were unthinkable last year, and 16GB cards didn’t start showing up ANYWHERE until about 2 months ago.  So, short-sighted as it may be, a 4,000 file limit seems quite reasonable, given the times.  Now that flash memory has gone up in capacity and down in price far more quickly than anyone could have expected, SanDisk is working hard to DOUBLE that limit very soon.  That should be plenty of space for the vast majority of users, at least until 16GB Fuzes or 32GB cards start showing up, and I’m guessing a larger Fuze would have an external RAM chip anyway.  And its quite possible that they could increase this further, though of course I don’t understand the limitations of such a large database as well as the people who designed this player do.

I’m not saying that SanDisk shouldn’t have made the knowledge public, but we should still be happy about the support we’re getting throughout this.  Most other owners of flash players seem to like their players fine, and they don’t even have an expansion slot at all, much less interactive support and useful FW upgrades from their companies. 

@aircraftkiller wrote:
I can’t imagine…

So far, spot on…

@aircraftkiller wrote:
…how long it must take you to even approach listening to 500 songs in a row, and if you aren’t listening to it all at once then you’ve got little reason to complain - go back to your computer and reload it with the songs you didn’t add, or replace the songs you aren’t as fond of in the player.

And if I’m away from my computer and it turns out that what I want to hear isn’t among the 500 (or 4,000) on my player? If capacity and song limit allow storage of all files owned this becomes a non-issue.

@marvin_martian wrote:

12,000? in 16GB? Holy crap!If you’re ripping them at that low bitrate, you’ve gotta be missing out on the sound quality that the Fuze is so well regarded for. A lot of people rip at higher bitrates once they become “more advanced users” because they learn to appreciate what sound the Fuze is capable of producing. I won’t debate tags vs. folders, because I have never had a player with folder navigation. However, I don’t feel the Fuze is crippled at all…I have definitely gotten what I paid for, and then some:smiley:

Actually, 64 kbps tracks using the newer WMA 10 Pro codecs sound about the same to me as the original wave file (especially when I’m out mowing the lawn).  But my ears are pretty old…

Does the Fuze support WMA 10? I didn’t think it did.

You’re right, in a sense, that it becomes a non-issue. I’m just treating you with the same attitude you’ve copping when you cry about being “deceived” by SanDisk, as if their track record as a company could ever support anything similar to that kind of claim.

@marvin_martian wrote:


@aircraftkiller wrote:
You can use it depending on what quality levels you’ve chosen. God forbid you listen to only 2,000 songs instead of 40,000. I can’t imagine how long it must take you to even approach listening to 500 songs in a row, and if you aren’t listening to it all at once then you’ve got little reason to complain - go back to your computer and reload it with the songs you didn’t add, or replace the songs you aren’t as fond of in the player.


That’s a good point…divide the 12,000 songs into 3 folders, and sync-swap as necessary…doesn’t seem like rocket science:wink:

Sorry, guys, but I shouldn’t have to.  The box it came in touts its expandability, with no mention of its limits (and that’s a little misleading, to say the least).

I bought it for a purpose, and it doesn’t achieve that purpose.

Then you should do research before you purchase goods, or look at the words “expandability” a bit closer. Regardless of limits, your player is expandable. That is an accurate advertisement. However, if you bought the Fuze thinking it’d be a replacement for a hard drive player, you’re looking to get gold out of a silver mine. The Fuze wasn’t designed for that kind of functionality. It’s a basic MP3 player with frills.