Rockbox?

Was just perusing the Rockbox forums, saw this from one of the active developers about the port to Sansa Fuze (and other AMS models)

 

funman wrote:

For users with 8GB and more models : don’t use test builds because they could totally brick your Sansa.

We don’t switch banks in SD transfers when we are crossing a bank boundary, so when crossing the 4GB border, we could accidentally write to the first blocks of internal storage, which hold the Original Firmware.

I noticed this problem when reading ata-sd-pp.c which has a comment line 951. (And by the way, it could be a source of the filesystem corruption the people using Sansa e200/c200 are seeing).

An efficient fix should be relatively easy to do and also applied to ata-sd-pp.c, but in the meantime be careful!"

Emphasis was his, I just copied/pasted.

Once again, and I’m sure I’ll take heat for it, loading up a development build of firmware on your device is NOT a good idea, unless you’re contributing to the development of said firmware.  If you fully understand you can turn your functional DMP into an ineffective doorstop, fine.

Tapeworm wrote: In the ‘It’s no skin off our nose’ department, you’ve been warned, advised and cautioned by several here. 

 

again  and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again…

 

 How many more times before you think it’s sufficient?  As explained earlier, the expected value of the risk is somewhere under a dollar, less than the chance of ruining  your player by cracking the screen.   Hard to pin down precisely, since no one on or quoted in this forum has said they’ve actually seen a fuze wrecked by rockbox. 

 

I haven’t seen nearly as many warnings against setting one’s Fuze down near the edge of a table, or using it without a hardshell case.

 

@donp wrote:


Tapeworm wrote: In the ‘It’s no skin off our nose’ department, you’ve been warned, advised and cautioned by several here. 


 again  and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again…

How many more times before you think it’s sufficient?  As explained earlier, the expected value of the risk is somewhere under a dollar, less than the chance of ruining  your player by cracking the screen.   Hard to pin down precisely, since no one on or quoted in this forum has said they’ve actually seen a fuze wrecked by rockbox. 

I haven’t seen nearly as many warnings against setting one’s Fuze down near the edge of a table, or using it without a hardshell case.

Probably when people stop saying, “Oooh, shiny, how do I do that?”

The above indicates to me that they do not have the technical savvy to do it themselves, don’t really understand the risk, and will come crying here, or, worse yet, send their (potentially) bricked unit back to SanDisk wanting a replacement.

And again, if you understand the risk, can contribute to the development, and are able to find the source, compile it yourself, load it on your player, and correct your errors, then by all means, go for it.

Doing it just for the cool factor is, IMO, stupid and shortsighted.  Contributing to the development is intelligent and forward-looking, and the folks who are capable won’t be asking here how to put Rockbox on their player.

Comparing it to dropping your player off a table or scratching it is apples and oranges.

@donp wrote:


Tapeworm wrote: In the ‘It’s no skin off our nose’ department, you’ve been warned, advised and cautioned by several here. 


 

again  and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again…

 

 How many more times before you think it’s sufficient?  As explained earlier, the expected value of the risk is somewhere under a dollar, less than the chance of ruining  your player by cracking the screen.   Hard to pin down precisely, since no one on or quoted in this forum has said they’ve actually seen a fuze wrecked by rockbox. 

 

I haven’t seen nearly as many warnings against setting one’s Fuze down near the edge of a table, or using it without a hardshell case.

 

 

Apparently you didn’t read the post prior to yours…so I’ll copy and paste…

 tenzip wrote…

"Was just perusing the Rockbox forums, saw this from one of the active developers about the port to Sansa Fuze (and other AMS models)

 

@funman wrote:

For users with 8GB and more models : don’t use test builds because they could totally brick your Sansa.

We don’t switch banks in SD transfers when we are crossing a bank boundary, so when crossing the 4GB border, we could accidentally write to the first blocks of internal storage, which hold the Original Firmware.

I noticed this problem when reading ata-sd-pp.c which has a comment line 951. (And by the way, it could be a source of the filesystem corruption the people using Sansa e200/c200 are seeing).

An efficient fix should be relatively easy to do and also applied to ata-sd-pp.c, but in the meantime be careful!"

Emphasis was his, I just copied/pasted.

Once again, and I’m sure I’ll take heat for it, loading up a development build of firmware on your device is NOT a good idea, unless you’re contributing to the development of said firmware.  If you fully understand you can turn your functional DMP into an ineffective doorstop, fine."

So, risk less than a dollar?

I’m trying to set my Fuze down near the edge of a table but can’t figure out how to do it.  Can someone give me instructions?  :smiley:

Hey,

I was wondering if you can pm me the instructions and perhaps the link to the rockbox hardware for the fuze.

Thanks

TJ

@tjvanee14 wrote:

Hey,

I was wondering if you can pm me the instructions and perhaps the link to the rockbox hardware for the fuze.

Thanks

TJ

First off, Rockbox is firmware, not hardware. 

The short answer to your question is, visit Rockbox.org, compile the firmware from source, and install it on your Fuze.

@skinjob wrote:
I’m trying to set my Fuze down near the edge of a table but can’t figure out how to do it.  Can someone give me instructions?  :smiley:

LOL!

Can anyone pm me or email me instructions and links too get rockbox on the fuze? my email is xgeneraltruex@hotmail.com thanks in advance.

Skinjob,

There is no spoon.  Perhaps, the table is trying to rise above the Fuze.  Makes about as much sense as boiling over with excitement in quest of a bricked Sansa, just to see it zorch itself after watching Bejeweled.

I’m not as much amused as I am saddened, as some still ignore every post up to this point, and inquire, “how do I do it?”, in requests replete with misspellings.

I think Dad’s going to be disappointed too, when the kids ask for a new Fuze.

C’est la guerre.  Wait until the development is done.

Bob  :cry:

There must be some heavy traffic coming from this thread - Rockbox.org has been down for a few hours now (@22:20 GMT). Too many people downloading the latest source from SVN  :wink:

Message Edited by daytona955 on 05-18-2009 10:25 PM

What is svn

@generaltrue wrote:
What is svn

S ub V ersio N - the version control software used by Rockbox.

See here for more details on getting Rockbox source code and building it.

http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DocsIndex#For_Developers

@marvin_martian wrote:


@donp wrote:

 How many more times before you think it’s sufficient?  


Apparently you didn’t read the post prior to yours…so I’ll copy and paste…

 tenzip wrote…

 

 

Apparently the answer is, “at least a few more times”

So, risk less than a dollar?

 Have you ever studied probability and run acrosst the concept of expected value?

I haven’t checked VERY recently, but last time I read through the developer forum there were multiple cases of developers losing their fuzes to cracked screens but I didn’t see any reports of fuzes actually ruined by the firmware.

I stand by my conclusion that the risk of losing a player to physical damage is higher than the risk of loading rockbox. Either risk can be lowered with some care, but the overall results experienced by the developers are still there.

Message Edited by donp on 05-19-2009 08:50 AM

@donp wrote:


@marvin_martian wrote:


@donp wrote:

 How many more times before you think it’s sufficient?  


Apparently you didn’t read the post prior to yours…so I’ll copy and paste…

 tenzip wrote…

 

 

Apparently the answer is, “at least a few more times”

So, risk less than a dollar?


 Have you ever studied probability and run acrosst the concept of expected value?

I haven’t checked VERY recently, but last time I read through the developer forum there were multiple cases of developers losing their fuzes to cracked screens but I didn’t see any reports of fuzes actually ruined by the firmware.

I stand by my conclusion that the risk of losing a player to physical damage is higher than the risk of loading rockbox. Either risk can be lowered with some care, but the overall results experienced by the developers are still there.

 

Message Edited by donp on 05-19-2009 08:50 AM

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showpost.php?p=357481&postcount=189 

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showpost.php?p=357482&postcount=62 

And of course, here:

http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.msg149973#msg149973

And that’s a known bug…

Marvin_Martian wrote: 

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showpost.php?p=357481&postcount=189 

 

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showpost.php?p=357482&postcount=62 

 

 

Yes, read and learn.  still, how many of the developer’s fuzes ruined from that firmware problem vs how many from mechanical trauma?   Relative danger?

 

 

@donp wrote:

Yes, read and learn.  still, how many of the developer’s fuzes ruined from that firmware problem vs how many from mechanical trauma?   Relative danger?

Well, the relative danger once they get the current bugs worked out will be virtually zero. That’s vastly preferable to the risk now (even if the “expected value” of the loss is only $1) , so I’ll wait.

@donp wrote:


Yes, read and learn.  still, how many of the developer’s fuzes ruined from that firmware problem vs how many from mechanical trauma?   Relative danger?

For this particular bug, the probability of bricking your player is 1, if:

  1. the player has 8GB of memory or more, and
  2. you write a file which crosses the 4GB boundary - which is very very likely to happen when a large library is written to the player.

So in this case, the ‘balanced on the edge of the table’ analogy is flawed. A better analogy would be to check your player. If >= 8GB place your  player in the middle of the table, if < 8GB, put it in your pocket. Then hit the middle of the table with the biggest hammer you can find.

As you say, ‘read and learn’. There is stuff about this on the Rockbox forum and IRC log, showing why the RB devs have not been bitten by this bug - they don’t own 8GB players

Edit: De-personalised my language…  looked a bit intemperate on re-reading :slight_smile:

Message Edited by daytona955 on 05-20-2009 10:32 AM

@daytona955 wrote:


@donp wrote:


Yes, read and learn.  still, how many of the developer’s fuzes ruined from that firmware problem vs how many from mechanical trauma?   Relative danger?


 

For this particular bug, the probability of bricking your player is 1, if:

  1. the player has 8GB of memory or more, and
  2. you write a file which crosses the 4GB boundary - which is very very likely to happen when a large library is written to the player.

So in this case, the ‘balanced on the edge of the table’ analogy is flawed. A better analogy would be to check your player. If >= 8GB place your  player in the middle of the table, if < 8GB, put it in your pocket. Then hit the middle of the table with the biggest hammer you can find.

 

As you say, ‘read and learn’. There is stuff about this on the Rockbox forum and IRC log, showing why the RB devs have not been bitten by this bug - they don’t own 8GB players

 

Edit: De-personalised my language…  looked a bit intemperate on re-reading :slight_smile:

Message Edited by daytona955 on 05-20-2009 10:32 AM

so if none of the Rockbox dev’s own a 8GB Fuze how are they going to FIX the bug?

@oobergeek wrote:
<snip>

so if none of the Rockbox dev’s own a 8GB Fuze how are they going to FIX the bug?

Well, the proposed fix is here:

http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10216?project=1

And if you have an 8GB AMS Sansa you don’t mind risking, you can help by checking the fix by following the instructions here, and in the following posts:

http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.msg150382#msg150382

“But you got to ask yourself, ‘Do I feel lucky?’. Well, do you…?”

Luckily, I don’t have an 8GB model, so I don’t have the conflict of feeling morally obliged to help, but not wishing to  put my player at risk!

Message Edited by daytona955 on 05-20-2009 03:23 PM