Replay Gain: A how to informational

Same stuff with me. I already analize all my libraby and update my clip+ but still the replay gain don’t do any difference with the volume. What’s up with that?? It took me a entire night doing that just for nothing. :S

Media Monkey in my opinion, a not particularly flexible program for managing music files and not very well configurable.

Please support other players such as Foobar2000 and the firmware has a bug fix necessary. The tags for Foobar2000 be misinterpreted and lead to values such as -45.03db in firmware version V01.01.05F!

ReplayGain values in foobar2000:
Track Gain +4.93dB
Album Gain +5.64db

Sansa Clip+ values:
Track Gain: -45.70db
Album Gain: -44.36db

When will there be a fix for?
There are also other errors.
http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=clipplus&thread.id=1532

The information will be followed after TXXX (User defined text information) frames of the keywords ‘replaygain_track_gain’, ‘replaygain_track_peak’, ‘replaygain_album_gain’ and ‘replaygain_album_peak’ stored.

http://h.imagehost.org/0793/foobar2000-gain.png

The advantage of Foobar2000 is, all the ReplayGain values can be read as a person and the user has a better control.

A look at the features and plug-ins worth it.

Thank you for the instructions. I processed the files as described and moved them to the Clip+. With Replay Gain disabled everything works fine. It also appears to work with Album gain. With Song gain enabled, when the current song finishes the display advances to the next song and does not show that is is paused but the song does not play nor does the elapsed time advance. I am unable to skip to the next song. I have to turn off the Clip+ to reset it. When I turn it back on and disable Replay Gain then all is well again. Have I done something wrong? Might there be a bug in the firmware in this area? Thank you in advance…

Message Edited by wreinert on 12-13-2009 10:12 AM

Message Edited by wreinert on 12-16-2009 07:22 AM

I’ve found a very strange bug. It only occurs on RG values lager than zero db and smaller than ten db.  

If i apply a RG value of lager or equal than 10 db it is recognized correctly by the player. if it is in the range mentioned above, it substracts about 40 or 50 dB from the original value. WTF?  

It also reads the value lower than zero db correctly.  

what i found is, that the clip does apply RG values to the volume. If you change the RG settings you have to go back to the home menu, and click yourself to the files in question. Seems to be in the software. 

but please fix this bogous RG readings… 

btw, the rg values were applied via Foobar2000 in MSC mode (if that helps)

I have also had a problem with some tags from Foobar2000; a tag of “+0.61” is read by the Clip+ as “-49.39”.

I followed the instructions from this thread and removed the “+” sign:

http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=sansafuse&message.id=23962

The Clip+ now reads the Replay Gain as “2070.61” and, of course, much too loud. I inserted a space where the “+” had been (" 0.61") and the Clip+ reads it correctly.

I installed Media Monkey and it does appear to write correct tags; I really like Foobar2000 and I don’t like having to install another program.

I just posted about the same problem Wreinert. I wonder if this is a widespread problem or not. All i know is that it’s very frustrating.

Read the thread people…the Replay Gain for the Sansas is designed to work with MediaMonkey, not foobar2000. The two programs clearly differ in how they implement ReplayGain data…so if you’re doing your ReplayGain analysis with foobar, don’t get upset when it doesn’t work.:wink:

Those of you who are using Mediamonkey, if it’s not cooperating with you, then perhaps there is a bug of some sort. There should be a firmware update sometime in the next month or so,so let’s keep the discussion alive so the devs know to address it.:smiley:

Kabel wrote:

Media Monkey in my opinion, a not particularly flexible program for managing music files and not very well configurable.

What is it that you can’t do with  Mediamonkey that you do with foobar, asides from tweak the way that it looks? They both play music, they both are capable of ripping and converting it…what else do you like to do with foobar?

@marvin_martian wrote:

Read the thread people…the Replay Gain for the Sansas is designed to work with MediaMonkey, not foobar2000. The two programs clearly differ in how they implement ReplayGain data…so if you’re doing your ReplayGain analysis with foobar, don’t get upset when it doesn’t work.:wink:

 

Those of you who are using Mediamonkey, if it’s not cooperating with you, then perhaps there is a bug of some sort. There should be a firmware update sometime in the next month or so,so let’s keep the discussion alive so the devs know to address it.:smiley:

 

 

Nice to hear. The behavior is really annoying.

A user to pin a program, it can not be.

@marvin_martian wrote:


@kabel wrote:

Media Monkey in my opinion, a not particularly flexible program for managing music files and not very well configurable.


What is it that you can’t do with  Mediamonkey that you do with foobar, asides from tweak the way that it looks? They both play music, they both are capable of ripping and converting it…what else do you like to do with foobar?

Just the scripting capabilities of Masstagers are a good reason.
The user can Foobar2000very, very well adapted to his needs.

Kabel wrote:


@marvin_martian wrote:


@kabel wrote:

Media Monkey in my opinion, a not particularly flexible program for managing music files and not very well configurable.


What is it that you can’t do with  Mediamonkey that you do with foobar, asides from tweak the way that it looks? They both play music, they both are capable of ripping and converting it…what else do you like to do with foobar?


Just the scripting capabilities of Masstagers are a good reason.
The user can Foobar2000very, very well adapted to his needs.

I never did any of that when I had foobar…never needed to do any mass tagging. When I switched computers last week, I opted not to add foobar to the new machine, because I wasn’t doing anything with it that I couldn’t do with Mediamonkey. It was nice to check out the detailed info foobar gave you , like size of your collection, avg. bitrate, what codec,etc., but really I wasn’t doing anything with it but play music and convert an album here and there. If I need to fix tags I have MP3Tag.

But, to each his own…you have uses for more of its capabilities than I do, and that’s fine.

I have only used Mediamonkey briefly so I may have missed some things, but quick impressions so far:

Cannot drag and drop a file or multiple files from a file browser (windows explorer, free commander, etc.)

Have not been successful getting wavpack files recognized in MM (apparently an older winamp plugin may work)

Very simple to copy codecs into Foobar directory - no installation necessary - wavpack, neroaacenc, neroaacdec, ac3, ogg, etc.

The ogg encoder in MM is extremly slow; I use a tweaked ogg codec in Foobar and it is approx 4x as fast.

MM installation directory over 30 MB’s, my Foobar directory (portable, no install) is 10 MB’s.

@marvin_martian wrote:

Read the thread people…the Replay Gain for the Sansas is designed to work with MediaMonkey, not foobar2000. The two programs clearly differ in how they implement ReplayGain data…so if you’re doing your ReplayGain analysis with foobar, don’t get upset when it doesn’t work.:wink:

 

Those of you who are using Mediamonkey, if it’s not cooperating with you, then perhaps there is a bug of some sort. There should be a firmware update sometime in the next month or so,so let’s keep the discussion alive so the devs know to address it.:smiley:

 

 

Thanks for the heads up. However, as a first time Sansa owner, nowhere on the manual, or on their site does it say that Media Monkey should be used for Replaygain. The only reason I was able to find out about how to use Replaygain was after a Google search, and I found the info here in this thread. And yes after using Media Monkey and following all instructions, Replaygain simply does not work with my Clip+. The ball was dropped somewhere. Hopefully there will be a fix soon.

You may want to try MP3Gain, which provides similar functionality.  The difference is, MP3Gain imbeds the gain changes into the files themselves (which is reversible/changeable), and so does not require any special software in the playing of the files (and so the gain changes are playable wherever).

Given all the headaches from ReplayGain, first with the Fuze, now with the Clip+, I think they would have been better off not implementing it, and improving the custom EQ’s functionality instead. :stuck_out_tongue:

@marvin_martian wrote:
Given all the headaches from ReplayGain, first with the Fuze, now with the Clip+, I think they would have been better off not implementing it, and improving the custom EQ’s functionality instead. :stuck_out_tongue:

When it works, it is really good. Now that I have done some further testing,I am confident I have the replaygain issue resolved…for my Clip+.

As has been stated previously, MM writes replaygain values that the Clip+ reads correctly.

For those using Foobar2000, the only issue is when replaygain values are positive (and apparently only values between 0.00 and +10.00, but I have not tested this)  and FB includes a plus sign preceeding the value. Simply removing the plus sign is not sufficient (the volume goes to max); however, replacing the plus sign with a space works correctly. Also, it appears to make no difference whether the tag is ID3v2.3 or ID3v2.4 - the Clip+ reads both properly.

@andied wrote:


@marvin_martian wrote:
Given all the headaches from ReplayGain, first with the Fuze, now with the Clip+, I think they would have been better off not implementing it, and improving the custom EQ’s functionality instead. :stuck_out_tongue:


When it works, it is really good. Now that I have done some further testing,I am confident I have the replaygain issue resolved…for my Clip+.

 

As has been stated previously, MM writes replaygain values that the Clip+ reads correctly.

 

For those using Foobar2000, the only issue is when replaygain values are positive (and apparently only values between 0.00 and +10.00, but I have not tested this)  and FB includes a plus sign preceeding the value. Simply removing the plus sign is not sufficient (the volume goes to max); however, replacing the plus sign with a space works correctly. Also, it appears to make no difference whether the tag is ID3v2.3 or ID3v2.4 - the Clip+ reads both properly.

Nice to hear! :slight_smile:

Are there any side effects in Foobar?

A small data query here:
‘GREATER %replaygain_track_gain% 0’ - 14.5% (10000 files)

Hi everybody, I registered because my own Clip+ is behaving the same way with replaygain_*_gain tags that have the “+9.99” format.  I hope this is helpful and that the people at Sandisk might see it.  Anyway, I can confirm:

  1. that replaygain_*_gain tags in the “+9.99” format cause the player to read incorrect values (eg, “+9.99” yields “-40.01” )

  2. that deleting the leading “+” (eg, “9.99” ) causes the player to read a very large value > 2000,

  3. that replacing the leading “+” with a " " (eg, " 9.99" ) causes the player to read the correct value,

AND 3) that adding a leading zero (eg, “+09.99” or “09.99” ) will also cause the player to read the correct value.

Almost forgot.  This all applies only to ID3 tags.  OGG is okay.  Haven’t tried FLAC.

Message Edited by DCMC on 12-20-2009 07:51 PM

Message Edited by DCMC on 12-20-2009 07:57 PM

Just thought I’d chime in with an update. I’ve been in contact with Sandisk customer service over this Replaygain problem, and after trying some of their suggestions to update firmware, reset & format, we’ve come to the conclusion that there is something wrong with my Clip+. Instead of sending it back to Sandisk, I decided to return the player back to the store I bought it from since it was still inside the 30-day return policy.

After charging the new unit, and adding some songs, once again Replaygain simply does not work properly. In either song or album mode, a few songs will play fine, and then the player will just freeze when a new track is to begin. You cannot skip to the next or previous track either. If i reboot, a few songs will play fine and then it freezes again. This happens on songs that are on both the internal memory and my SD micro card. My files are a mix of MP3’s and WMA’s, and i would guess that wouldn’t be the problem since the Clip+ accepts both type of files. When Replaygain is in off mode, everything works fine.

Sandisk says that there is no problem in their opinion with Replaygain on the Clip+, but in my experience I would beg to differ. Could it be that the problem is with Media Monkey? Hopefully there will be a fix soon.

Message Edited by bloozjr on 12-23-2009 12:55 PM

I am not persuaded that the Clip+ is at fault for the ReplayGain issues I have seen posted. The only issue I have experienced (and have read a few other posts with similar problems) is with specific programs (Foobar2000) and the format that is used to write the ReplayGain values, and once understood, this issue is trivial to correct.

@bloozjr: The fact that your second Clip+ has the same problems suggests to me there is a problem with your tags, or at least the way the Clip+ reads them. Is there a particular file that causes the freeze, or file type? I would try to isolate the problem, if possible, and would create a test folder, with a few mp3’s, and see if they play through properly, another folder for wma files and see if they play, then another folder to mix them. Perhaps use MP3Tag to check the tags and make sure they do not have any unusual entries.