Pitch bug on Clip+?

@jk98 wrote:
  It takes something like 3 hours of charging of the Clip+ to get around 12 hours of play time.
Message Edited by JK98 on 10-16-2009 11:59 AM

You must be using the computer to charge. When I had my Clips my 1000mA wall charger was definitely faster than that.:wink:

@JK98:

It’s seems that you spend 25 hours a day with your mp3 player :slight_smile: Don’t you see that very few people would ever need such extreme capacities and that it completely miss the purpose of sansa clip+ ? Keyword: small.

@m9zf3n5w wrote:

 

clip+  2.16 x 1.34 x 0.4 in = 1.16 cubic inches
cowon i7  3*1.4*0.7 in = 2.93 cubic inches

on top of that compare the prices of the players as well. 
I guess batteries with larger capacity per size also cost more. 
Anyway, that’s not the point at all. Beside the pitch issue, IMHO Clip+ is a perfect player for that tiny size format, I don’t see any other player that can compete. 15 hour play time is more then adequate. Do you sleep at night with earplugs and music on ? :) 

Absolutely agree.  It seemed to me that the extra space is being used for the extra battery power (which is impressive, as I said).

Personally, I don’t see a battery issue with the Clip–there’s more than enough power for a typical day’s use, and then one simply charges overnight.  Of course, battery capacity is like storage capacity:  more always is nice.  :slight_smile:

I really don’t hear a pitch issue with the Clip/Clip+ (and note Cnet’s follow-up, in which it doesn’t see/hear an issue).  But knowing that there is a tiny variance there, somehow I just wish there wasn’t.  And I’d give up a small amount of the battery to lessen it, personally, given the ample reserves.  But it’s up to SanDisk in its consideration of the pros and cons, and the marketplace effect.

Nice player there, tho, that other (I like the video possibility in something so small, even tho I likely rarely would use it)–thanks for noting it.

Being small is only useful to a certain degree. After that, a smaller size means a display that is too small to be convenient, battery life that is too short, and too few controls or controls that are too small. For me, the cutoff point is the ability for the player to comfortably fit in a shirt pocket. If people think a AA battery based player would be too large, then  AAA battery based players could be made. The battery in the Clip+ is 330 mah 3.7 v, which is the same amount of power in a 1000 mah AAA nimh battery. The advantage to the AAA battery though is that it is easily swappable, and up to 4 can be charged at a time in a 15 minute charger. A version of the Clip+ that uses a AAA battery might not have to be much larger than the Clip+, especially if it is a slot player that doesn’t have USB circuitry, a USB connector, or built in battery charging circuitry.

@miikerman wrote:


@m9zf3n5w wrote:

 

clip+  2.16 x 1.34 x 0.4 in = 1.16 cubic inches
cowon i7  3*1.4*0.7 in = 2.93 cubic inches

on top of that compare the prices of the players as well. 
I guess batteries with larger capacity per size also cost more. 
Anyway, that’s not the point at all. Beside the pitch issue, IMHO Clip+ is a perfect player for that tiny size format, I don’t see any other player that can compete. 15 hour play time is more then adequate. Do you sleep at night with earplugs and music on ? :) 


Absolutely agree.  It seemed to me that the extra space is being used for the extra battery power (which is impressive, as I said).

 

Personally, I don’t see a battery issue with the Clip–there’s more than enough power for a typical day’s use, and then one simply charges overnight.  Of course, battery capacity is like storage capacity:  more always is nice.  :slight_smile:

 

I really don’t hear a pitch issue with the Clip/Clip+ (and note Cnet’s follow-up, in which it doesn’t see/hear an issue).  But knowing that there is a tiny variance there, somehow I just wish there wasn’t.  And I’d give up a small amount of the battery to lessen it, personally, given the ample reserves.  But it’s up to SanDisk in its consideration of the pros and cons, and the marketplace effect.

 

Nice player there, tho, that other (I like the video possibility in something so small, even tho I likely rarely would use it)–thanks for noting it.

Not just battery life, but output power is also much higher, and it has a well-executed (unlike Sansa) custom EQ and other sound tweaks available. For those who say it’s in a different price class than the CLip+, sure it is, and deservedly so.

Now I never could hear the pitch issue by ear either, but hearing the difference the real custom EQ of my Samsung could make, with my 4-headphone rotation,  sealed my decision to sell my Clip. If they would work on the EQ, I might consider a Clip+…but I doubt they will. So at this point, next spring/summer, when it’s time for a smaller player to throw in my pocket outdoors, the i7 will be something I consider.

One of the biggest draws of Rockbox is the EQ ability. I would encourage Sansa to try and make their EQ work better…if they did, I could very well buy a Clip+…but I imagine they will consider doing that a non-“value” approach.   

“Personally, I don’t see a battery issue with the Clip–there’s more than enough power for a typical day’s use,”

Many don’t want to charge a player every day, or even every week. They would prefer a player that has a battery that lasts for a few weeks, or else uses an easily swappable battery that can be charged in batches every few weeks.

Miikerman wrote: 

Personally, I don’t see a battery issue with the Clip–there’s more than enough power for a typical day’s use, and then one simply charges overnight.  Of course, battery capacity is like storage capacity:  more always is nice.  :slight_smile:

 

 When traveling, “overnight” doesn’t always include easy access to AC outlets. 

@miikerman wrote:

 

I really don’t hear a pitch issue with the Clip/Clip+ (and note Cnet’s follow-up, in which it doesn’t see/hear an issue).  But knowing that there is a tiny variance there, somehow I just wish there wasn’t.  And I’d give up a small amount of the battery to lessen it, personally, given the ample reserves.  But it’s up to SanDisk in its consideration of the pros and cons, and the marketplace effect.

There’s only been a few people here who have actually claimed to have heard the pitch issue. The majority of people probably do not.

But, having said that . . . the power of suggestion ‘causes’ people who were otherwise happy with their Clip/+/Fuze to suddenly turn tail and run because now their player is defective.

As you say though, whether you can hear it or not; it’s a matter of principle. People want their equipment to work properly, whether it actually affects their listening enjoyment, or they perceive that it does.

Tapeworm wrote: 

only been a few people here who have actually claimed to have heard the pitch issue. The majority of people probably do not.

 

But, having said that . . . the power of suggestion ‘causes’ people who were otherwise happy with their Clip/+/Fuze to suddenly turn tail and run because now their player is defective.

 

As you say though, whether you can hear it or not; it’s a matter of principle. People want their equipment to work properly, whether it actually affects their listening enjoyment, or they perceive that it does.

 

Consider what a stride forward that is compared to things people perceive or think they hear that can’t be detected with instruments or controlled blind test, and all the snake oil that’s been sold on that basis.

 

Well, I think you are in a wrong forum :slight_smile:

I need an audio player that is as small and light as possible, used mostly on the go and while I’m doing something else. Display should be big enough just to (occasionally) see the playlist. Heck, I listen, I do not read the music :slight_smile: That’s exactly where clip+ fits. And I am sure I am not the only one. 
For anything else I’d get a fully programmable device like Netbook, PDA even a smart phone that would beat any of these utterly expensive multimedia players any time of a day (small screen for video, very limited video codec support - you have to do conversions etc.) IMHO they exist only to impress (and get money out of pocket), I don’t see any real functionality there, especially when you consider their price)
>>

>> Being small is only useful to a certain degree. After that, a smaller size means a display that is too small to be convenient, battery life that is

Message Edited by m9zf3n5w on 10-16-2009 05:14 PM

Clearly, if you need or want more than around 15 hours of power at a time, the Clip isn’t the best for you.  (Having said that, you could get a Duracell Instant Power Charger for around $20, a small, rechargeable battery source that will provide around 35 hours of recharge capability per charge.)  I am sure that SanDisk would love to eke out more battery power for the Clip, but I assume there is a limit in the Clip’s small form factor.

As to battery duration, clearly, if you need or want more than around 15 hours of power at a time, the Clip isn’t the best for you.  (Having said that, you could get a Duracell Instant Power Charger for around $20, a small, rechargeable battery source that will provide around 35 hours of recharge capability per charge.  Or a recharger powered by AA batteries for less than that, perhaps handy for travel.)  I am sure that SanDisk would love to eke out more battery power for the Clip, but there is a limit given the Clip’s small form factor, with the current state of battery technology (and, as SanDisk has said, given trade-offs, such as cost).  Nonetheless, it is amazing to me that the Clip provides as much playing life as my first digital audio player from 5 years ago, more than 10x the Clip’s size (but also with a hard drive).  

Marvin, I agree, an improved EQ would be welcome.  Having said that, though, even when I had a nifty EQ with my first player, I rarely used anything but a flat setting.  But it’s all personal, and I know that a lot of people like to mix their music sound up.

On the pitch front, although I don’t seem to hear any issue personally, I often wonder what I actually may be hearing but not noticing–hence the desire for as high a fidelity as possible.  It’s like the age-old question of digital music rip rates:  although you may not be aware consciously of the missing data, is it something that affects one unconsciously?  Sound is a complex thing.

In the end, the trade-offs all can be very personal. 

>>>> when traveling, “overnight” doesn’t always include easy access to AC outlets. 
There’s a simple “double-charging” solution for that: a mobile charger with built-in high-capacity battery - you can charge your player many times without any need for AC outlet.  

@miikerman wrote:

Marvin, I agree, an improved EQ would be welcome.  Having said that, though, even when I had a nifty EQ with my first player, I rarely used anything but a flat setting.  But it’s all personal, and I know that a lot of people like to mix their music sound up.

 

Thing is, I don’t mix my sound up. I see posts all the time , in multiple forums, where people talk about different EQ settings for different genres… one of my players even offers an auto-EQ that senses your song’s genre and selects a different preset for each song. I want no part of that.

I have different headphones, which naturally produce unique sound signatures compared to the others. None of them is perfectly balanced…so I use my EQ to compensate for the various headphones’ deficiencies. I sat down with each pair and listened to a select few songs, the ones that I know best, and fiddled around until I got each pair to sound right for those songs. I have settings saved for 3 pairs on my Samsung, and 2 pair on my Sony.

The Clip and Fuze, and presumably the Clip+ too, put out their best sound with no EQ adjustment…the “Normal” setting. Only one of my headphones is close  to the optimal balance with a Sansa…and it happens to be the least portable set.  Some people who like to think of themselves as audio purists (and I’m not saying you are one of them Miikerman ) refuse to use any kind of EQ or enhancement, which is fine if you have the right 'phones…heck, if I had a portable set that was “just right” in their sound I would have kept my Clip and sold my Samsung, for the Clip is much more usable in the real world. :wink:

@m9zf3n5w wrote:
>>>> when traveling, “overnight” doesn’t always include easy access to AC outlets. 
There’s a simple “double-charging” solution for that: a mobile charger with built-in high-capacity battery - you can charge your player many times without any need for AC outlet.  

@miikerman wrote:

As to battery duration, clearly, if you need or want more than around 15 hours of power at a time, the Clip isn’t the best for you.  (Having said that, you could get a Duracell Instant Power Charger for around $20, a small, rechargeable battery source that will provide around 35 hours of recharge capability per charge.  Or a recharger powered by AA batteries for less than that, perhaps handy for travel.)


That negates somewhat the Clip+'s low price though, doesn’t it? Everyone loves to cite how cheap it is, but if you have to buy an additional battery pack to carry around, that argument starts to look a little weak :stuck_out_tongue:

Message Edited by Marvin_Martian on 10-17-2009 11:04 AM

I guess I would agree, if we were talking about a 4-hour battery life.  But I think that a 15-hour battery life is a fair one.  I would guess that for most people, it is more than sufficient (although, again, a greater power reserve always is nice to have, if, for nothing else, not having to recharge as often). 

Having said that, personally, I’d still be willing to give up 1/2 an hour for a pitch adjustment.

As donp noted earlier, to some (like myself) battery life is an essential part of the equation, as I’m often in places where it is not feasible to charge a player easily…and I’m not about to lug around extra booster packs and the like, just so I keep my unit playing.

The short battery life and the pitch variance, together made me move away from the Clip+ (and the Clip).

It appears that Sandisk is positioning themselves as a “value” line, which is fine if they wish to do so; but the 2 compromise issues (pitch/battery life) will likely increase to more as time goes on.

I’m not a value minded customer, I’m a quality minded one.  So, the decision I made to switch players had very little to do with the end cost of the product.  I figure why spend any amount of money on a product, if it doesn’t satisfy your needs.

I have absolutely no issues at all with the people that use and enjoy their Clips (both varieties); I just know that it wasn’t the right player for me.

@miikerman wrote:

I guess I would agree, if we were talking about a 4-hour battery life.  But I think that a 15-hour battery life is a fair one.  I would guess that for most people, it is more than sufficient (although, again, a greater power reserve always is nice to have, if, for nothing else, not having to recharge as often). 

 

Having said that, personally, I’d still be willing to give up 1/2 an hour for a pitch adjustment.

In all fairness, it’s 15 hours with low-to-medium bitrate mp3, “Normal” EQ setting. If you’re using WMA, Vorbis, or especially FLAC (8.5 hrs. on the V2 Clip that I had:dizzy_face: ) , your battery life would be less than 15 hours. Mine never died on me…I always charged before I left the house, and if it was going to be a long day I would bring my AC charger along. But if I thought charging wouldn’t be an option, I’d bring a second player, just in case.

 My two current players, without EQ use,  are rated at 42 and 50 hours, so I never feel the need to carry around a charger.:smiley:

Yep, the 15 hours is an estimate, and it is user-dependent.  I use high bit-rate VBR MP3 files, and have never run out of power for my Clip from use–I just recharge after a long day.  But use is personal, as the comments indicate.

@m9zf3n5w wrote:

Well, I think you are in a wrong forum :slight_smile:

I need an audio player that is as small and light as possible, used mostly on the go and while I’m doing something else. Display should be big enough just to (occasionally) see the playlist. Heck, I listen, I do not read the music :slight_smile: That’s exactly where clip+ fits. And I am sure I am not the only one. 
For anything else I’d get a fully programmable device like Netbook, PDA even a smart phone that would beat any of these utterly expensive multimedia players any time of a day (small screen for video, very limited video codec support - you have to do conversions etc.) IMHO they exist only to impress (and get money out of pocket), I don’t see any real functionality there, especially when you consider their price)
>>

>> Being small is only useful to a certain degree. After that, a smaller size means a display that is too small to be convenient, battery life that is

Just what forum would you suggest? And what does your comments have to do with the subject of this thread " Pitch bug on Clip+?"

As a matter of fact, the entire discussion has gotten wayyy off-topic. :dizzy_face: