Can you please help me in deciding between Fuze, Clip+ and E270?

Genious! Great help both of you!

I myself am attracted by Fuze for the battery life and by Clip+ for smallness (may I say smallness?).

Correct me if I am wrong, neither Clip+ or Fuze have a replaceable battery, isn’t it?

Few questions more: the fact that the E270 has got other processor, how does influence its sound quality? You said that the sound of version 2 is on par with Clip and Fuze, so I imagine that you mean that Fuze and Clip sound equally well and now E200V2 too, while E200V1 does not? Not even with Rockbox (which I am not familiar with, I have just read few lines about the fact that it is a cool open firmware which change and improove many functions. Sounds cool. ANy negative sides?).

Other question: if you talk so well of Fuze controls, it means that Clip ones are not so smoth and pleasant and comfortable or what?

Practical question: to keep it in jeans pocket (frontal one, which make all difficult when you sit with the player in it) , which player is mor comfortable? I had the impression from dimensions that e270 is a bit big (even if not as much as Connect, which I have inmediatly rejected).

Sorry, a question more: should I worry about my Kingston 8gb microsdhc? In other forum a guy told me that there are known incompatibilty issues (casual ones? Or brands-fight ones?) with Sansa players, but he seemd to talk mostly of connect, and of video reproduction…

I need music. And no Connect.

Neither the Clip nor Fuze has a user-replaceable battery.

As the Clip is the smallest, it potentially would fit in your pocket the easiest.  I would be afraid that the Fuze would break in a pocket.

The Clip’s controls are just fine and easy to use (note:  it does not have a scroll wheel, if you like and want that).  The only potential issue you would have would be less screen display space for lists of music.

And I gather from comments here that while Kingston microSD cards have caused issues with video, there has not been a problem with audio.

Thanks! Very useful info about Fuze fragility. I suppose that you have used it personally or at least seen it personaly?

I was about to choose that one, so, now I want to be sure…

SO, FUze and E270 has got the scroll wheel? Yes, I like that, especially if the other buttns click too much. I hate the click…

It is a pity that here I do not find E200 V2. I have been told that E270 sounds less well than Fuze and CLip, even with Rockbox, and this made me loose interest on it…

Pity, because it is a bit cheaper, and it has got more battery time (but it also is bigger).

Yes, the Fuze has the scroll wheel.  No, it isn’t particularly fragile.  But it has a metal body that can get dented and it has a normal, larger screen, and it is bigger than the Clip±-thus, it could get damaged more easily than the Clip+, especially in a pocket where you will be bending, potentially with other objects, etc.  Good luck!

I have both the Clip+ and Fuze. I like them both, but use them differently. It is much easier to find individual songs on the Fuze than on the Clip+ due to the scroll wheel and larger display(more items are shown at a time in lists) on the Fuze. On the Clip+, I let albums play through. On the Fuze, I often search for individual songs.

The proprietary connector on the Fuze is very annoying though. I have supplemental battery packs I can use with my players, and they come with very small USB cables with a mini USB connector. If I want to use them with the Fuze though, I need to carry the huge cable that came with the Fuze. Battery life on the Fuze is around 20 hours, while it is only around 12 hours with the Clip+.

When I am home I almost always use the Fuze, however I don’t use the Fuze while I am walking around.

Just a sidebar:


Remember Andy Rooney?

Ever wonder how come the almost identical docking port connection of the iPod is considered “the connector”, but the SanDisk plug is bemoaned as proprietary?  That special termination is designed to allow enhanced functions, like a remote control when docked.  Just because one version is as common as weeds doesn’t make the other one the black sheep.


A short cable is the answer, perhaps noted as a great product suggestion.  If you want to see a cumbersome version, look at the Apple “wye” type cable with FrieWire and USB on the same cable.

Bob  :stuck_out_tongue:

Thanks!

Ok, I must confess, I have read many posts here (I see that, finally, you all are always the same guys answering, congratulations), ABI, Head-Fi… And a few reviews.

Anyway, I still would like to understand (maybe you already told me, but please repeat). Also, please, answer about your direct first person knowledge of the devices… I need real comparison, I don´t care about nominal superiority of the new processor. I do not need a “this is better” but a explication of the differences. So I can decide in the shop, according on the preice I will get. IE, in this moment a Clip+ 4Gb would costs me 10US$ more than a Fuze 8gb (no idea if V1 or 2), and a Clip+8gb would costs 27US$ more… Tomorrow I will check availibility and prices of other shops.

  1. I own, actually, just a pair of economic Phillips SHS8000 IEM, 16ohms, 102db, 6-23.500 hz, 50mW. I have read that they are considered very good for the price. But I tell you, to let you know which IEM I will use. No Shure or luxury ones. For now.

  2. what REALLY changes in SQ between Clip+, Faze V1, and Faze V2 (and how do I know, when I am to buy a Faze, if it is V1 or 2)?

  3. THis “warmer sound” of Clip+, is something good or it is just a polite way to say that it lacks of highs and basses and it is not crispy and transparent? I believe that JK said Clip was too bright, CLip+ not enough bright, Fuze is the best. Is it right? I do not like metallic sound or eq where high and bass are so exagerated that vocals sound terribly. But I do like crispy highs, and good, present, basses, and a definite transparent clear and deep sound (yes, I shuld get better IEM, but let´s start from player).

  4. I am a hard shuffler. I quite never look for a specific song or listen to an entire album. I generally shuffle all my music, all genres, to be surprised. I have read somewhere that Clip had better shuffle functionthan Fuze. What about CLip+? My generic MP4 pick up the same songs all the time!!!

  5. concretely, for those who owned E200v1 and now own Fuze and/or Clip+: how does the E200v1 with Rockbox sound compared to CLip+ and Fuze?

Message Edited by San_Discolo on 01-24-2010 09:07 PM

I am very interested in this, because I finally found that I can only get Clip+ and FUze here. Among E200 I can only get E270, so, rockbox or nothing.

My question would be, which sounds better, finally, Fuze, or CLip+?

I was reading that many people love Rockbox, should I prefer E270 only to be able to Use Rockbox even if it souds a bit worse?

As I said in the other thread several times, all of them have identical output except the e200v1.

The biggest difference you will hear will be between the later devices and the e270 (v1), since it is running with a completely different processor.

The earlier v1 e200 devices sound pretty decent, though most folks can readily pick up on the differences when they step over to the newer players.  The functions of Rockbox are quite popular with v1 users, as saratoga can attest, and enhancements continue, even for the later Sansas.

As to the reported differences in sound quality with the various current models, these differences are indeed subjective, and more subtle.  The new devices are pretty close in sound quality, with the largest differences being overall features (size / controls / battery life).

µsansa

I have owned, and used for a long time, E260v1 and a Fuzev1, and I bought a Clip+ because of the good reviews.

I sent the Clip+ back. It simply does not sound as good as the Fuze.  I really wanted to like it, but my ears kept telling me otherwise.

Frankly I don’t think it sounds any better than the E260v1, possibly worse. 

It has an audible peak in the midrange–to make vocals pop out–and it has a narrower soundstage, which is to say that the music just sounds more three-dimensional and natural on the Fuze. 

I carry the Fuze around in a shirt or jacket pocket all the time. I take it to the gym. It’s not fragile. 

Obviously you can’t put it in a back pocket where you’d sit on it. You might–just might–be able to do that with a Clip+.  I don’t think that’s worth the decrease in sound quality or battery life. 

The Fuze has a higher power output than the Clip+. This will make the Fuze sound better than the Clip+, especially if you are using less efficient headphones. The Clip is brighter sounding than the Clip+, with the Fuze being between the two. The differences are small though. Imo the Clip was a bit too bright though, with the Fuze being the best balanced of the three. It is important to use headphones 32 ohms or under to get decent sound from the Clip, Clip+, or Fuze, with efficient 16 ohm earphones being the best choice(the lowest impedance headphones I have seen is the 24 ohm Sony V900HD9(7509HD). Anyone here know of a 16 ohm circumaural headphones?

@jk98 wrote:
The Clip is brighter sounding than the Clip+,

This is simply not true:

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/Sansa%20Clip%20vs.%20Clip+%20(No%20Loads,%2016%20Ohm%20Loads).htm 

JK98 wrote: 
It is important to use headphones 32 ohms or under to get decent sound from the Clip, Clip+, or Fuze, with efficient 16 ohm earphones being the best choice(the lowest impedance headphones I have seen is the 24 ohm Sony V900HD9(7509HD). Anyone here know of a 16 ohm circumaural headphones?

  

I’ve seen you say this before:

http://anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46648

And I (and others) told you it was stupid then.  Its arguably more stupid now that you know its wrong. 

I realize you want to help, but if you’re less informed then the person asking questions, its probably better that you not try to give advice.   Making up answers isn’t helpful.

(On a side-note:  nix on the stupid comments, please?  People can have off days, or just be mistaken …   ;)  )

"JK98 wrote: The Clip is brighter sounding than the Clip+, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is simply not true: http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/Sansa%20Clip%20vs.%20Clip+%20(No%20Loads,%2016%20Ohm%20Loads).htm "

Did you read the review of the Clip+ on Amythingbutipod.com? I am not the only one who feels that the Clip+ sounds different than the Clip.

As for the Clip+ and Fuze not properly powering headphones over 32 ohms, that is what I observed using the headphones I own. The Fuze and clip+ don’t work that well with the Sony V6 Sennheiser HD545,  Koss A200 and Portapro. I have heard much better sound using those headphones connected to other more powerful sounces.  On the Fuze and Clip+ I need  to have the volume set at maximum or close to it, and sometimes there isn’t enough volume. While higher impedance headphones might be okay with the Fuze and Clip+ using a supplemental headphone amp, most people don’t want to have to use one.

Perhaps you  will tell me that it was just my imagination that I often didn’t get enough volume with these headphones?

@miikerman wrote:
(On a side-note:  nix on the stupid comments, please?  People can have off days, or just be mistaken …   ;)  )

Its not an off day when its everyday and its not being mistaken when you have no idea what you’re talking about.

@jk98 wrote:

 

Did you read the review of the Clip+ on Amythingbutipod.com? I am not the only one who feels that the Clip+ sounds different than the Clip.

 

 I didn’t say you’re the only one whos wrong about this.  Just that you should know better since you’ve had it quite patiently explained to you how these things work in the past.  You have no excuse for being so clueless.

JK98 wrote: 

 

As for the Clip+ and Fuze not properly powering headphones over 32 ohms, that is what I observed using the headphones I own. The Fuze and clip+ don’t work that well with the Sony V6 Sennheiser HD545,  Koss A200 and Portapro.

 

If you’ve got a real difference, post the RMAA results.  Because the tests I linked show no difference!  If you’ve got one at 32 ohms it should be very easy to show.

Look I’ll even go again. Heres another set of tests:

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/Comparison%20-%20Sansa%20Clip%20-%2012%20-%2048%20Ohm.htm 

Note that the low impedance headphones all work worse then high impedance.  If you’ve got so many pairs of headphones where this isn’t the case, please test them and share with the community. 

Of course you won’t do this because you realize you’re wrong already and are just trying to save face.  

JK98 wrote: 

 

 I have heard much better sound using those headphones connected to other more powerful sounces.  On the Fuze and Clip+ I need  to have the volume set at maximum or close to it, and sometimes there isn’t enough volume. While higher impedance headphones might be okay with the Fuze and Clip+ using a supplemental headphone amp, most people don’t want to have to use one.

 

  

You’ve confusing impedance with sensitivity.  With lower sensitivity headphones, you might need an amp.  With lower sensitivity headphones you might need to turn the volume up more.  Going from 16 ohm to 32 ohm drops the volume 3dB.  Thats nothing!  The threshold of detectability is usually around 1 dB for most people.  But that doesn’t mean lower impedance works better.  It doesn’t as I’ve shown above.  It just means that if you get headphones that need an amp, you might need to get an amp.  But you can still easily drive higher impedance headphones provided you pick ones with suitable sensitivity such that an amp isn’t needed.  And in fact doing so will give you slightly better performance then going with very low impedance headphones.

But really, this brings us back to my original point:  you don’t even know what impedance is, so why are you giving advice about it?

JK98 wrote: 

 

 

Perhaps you  will tell me that it was just my imagination that I often didn’t get enough volume with these headphones?

 

 

  

 Honestly, given the other things you’ve said, I wouldn’t be surprised if its because you haven’t found the volume knob.  

saratoga wrote:


@miikerman wrote:
(On a side-note:  nix on the stupid comments, please?  People can have off days, or just be mistaken …   ;)  )

Its not an off day when its everyday and its not being mistaken when you have no idea what you’re talking about.

But my simple point, no need to call a person or his comment stupid …  (And the poster, by the way, explains and stands by his comments, as he notes above.)  Life is so much more civil without.   :wink:

We can do without the personal attacks. Everyone has the right to their own opinion and there are constructive ways to disagree without name calling. Please keep it civil.

 

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