Seriously, musicians who have been complaining about off pitch playback: I would recommend that you tune your instruments, pitch up a song by 0.14%, and play your instrument while listening to that pitched up song. Listen to hear if playback is close enough in pitch to your instrument to be acceptable. Then post back here to let us know.
The Sansa engineers are assuming that ~0.14% pitch error is going to be acceptable, but they are not musicians and have not tested this setting to make sure that it will be acceptable in a “playing your instrument alongside your Fuze” context. This is probably your last chance to have something done about it if +/-0.14% isn’t close enough, so you should test to make sure.
If you don’t know how to pitch up a file by precisely 0.14%, then PM me. You can send me your file, and I will pitch it up for you.
Message Edited by maxplanck on 02-19-2009 06:18 PM
Many have performed studies with many different test subjects and published their findings on the “just noticiable difference” of two pitches. The standard answer is that a very well trained person under ideal circumstances can here a difference of about 5 cents, or about 0.3%. I am satisfied to take that number. A player that is accurate to half that tolerance has sufficient accuracy for me. Here is a link to a discussion of this subject.
neat! I was actually just detuning my keyboard when playing along with the player (though a lot of the sources I am using would have required that anyway, regardless of the player). But still, accuracy in reproducing the original recording is important, leaving the task of conforming to standard tuning as the responsibility of the performers/performers’ equipment. <3% power on an already power conservative device is just fine by me… Heck my iRiver only laster 2-4 hours and was 4-5 x bigger and heavier
Now if I can only get my computer to recognize my player in MTP format I’d be all set…
It has been said before but I’ll say it again…the Fuze is NOT a digital recorder intended for reproduction of recorded music to be integrated into a sound reinforcement system to support a concert venue OR is touted as a device for musicians to play along to. There is better equipment for that…and more expensive for many reasons.
But it IS for private a/v pleasure…lets continue with the pleassure…
Musicians…buy the appropriate equipment please…
Message Edited by bobletteross on 02-20-2009 04:33 AM
It has been said before but I’ll say it again…the Fuze is NOT a digital recorder intended for reproduction of recorded music to be integrated into a sound reinforcement system to support a concert venue OR is touted as a device for musicians to play along to.
Recording is a different issue, and given that the only live input is a built in mono microphone, the intent is clearly not concert quality music.
But… the last time I took musical instrument lessons, a portable recorder (cassette at the time) was definately part of the gear, and preserving the pitch is a nice touch in that context.
It has been said before but I’ll say it again…the Fuze is NOT a digital recorder intended for reproduction of recorded music to be integrated into a sound reinforcement system to support a concert venue OR is touted as a device for musicians to play along to. There is better equipment for that…and more expensive for many reasons.
But it IS for private a/v pleasure…lets continue with the pleassure…
Musicians…buy the appropriate equipment please…
Message Edited by bobletteross on 02-20-2009 04:33 AM
I’m not sure. For $99 at BestBuy I got the Sony NWZ-e438f and can play music against it or use it for background music through the house system between sets at performances. It is smack on in pitch and timing accuracy against all my files in my PC. I would strongly consider the Fuze again, however, now that Sandisk is attending to it’s accuracy.
If I bought a Timex quartz watch that was off by a few minutes per day I would complain too, and not be disuaded by any argument that I should have bought a professonal timepiece if I wanted better.
A watch’s purpose is to keep accuarate time and the accuracy over time will depend on the craftmanship and/or quality control of the manufacturer.
However, MY point was that the Fuze’s intended purpose and the appropriate tools for the appropriate job. The Fuze is for portable, personal, audio/visual enjoyment. My V1 Fuze sounds dead on. If the V2 Fuzes need a fix so be it. BUT, it aint either a timepiece or a digital recorder, people!
Message Edited by bobletteross on 02-20-2009 05:57 AM
However, MY point was that the Fuze’s intended purpose and the appropriate tools for the appropriate job. The Fuze is for portable, personal, audio/visual enjoyment. My V1 Fuze sounds dead on. If the V2 Fuzes need a fix so be it.
My point is that Sony can provide the same portable, personal, audio/visual enjoyment tool at the same economical price that meets the identical market and do so with a precise rate of accuracy.
I’m glad to know that there are differences that I should have been more aware of before entering this market. I will be more apt to select cheap devices that possess a higher tolerence to error.
My mistake…I meant to write DIGITAL MUSIC RECORDER…it in fact is touted as a voice recorder…now I will stop talking about it as some are not getting my point…
It has been said before but I’ll say it again…the Fuze is NOT a digital recorder intended for reproduction of recorded music to be integrated into a sound reinforcement system to support a concert venue OR is touted as a device for musicians to play along to. There is better equipment for that…and more expensive for many reasons.
But it IS for private a/v pleasure…lets continue with the pleassure…
Musicians…buy the appropriate equipment please…
Message Edited by bobletteross on 02-20-2009 04:33 AM
Not all musicians can afford expensive gear. If we can make our less expensive devices perform well enough for use in a musician’s context, at little to no additional cost, then why not?
In this day and age of cheap, high performance digital audio equipment, most instances of gear snobbery are more a sign of ignorance than of knowledge. Today you can buy all of the digital audio hardware needed to produce professional quality, finished audio product for practically a song and a dance.
Of course there is plenty of ultra cheapo ■■■■ quality digital gear on the market, and that is to be avoided. But if you know how to choose wisely, new-in-box professional quality digital gear can be had for very cheap.
You can put together the digital hardware components of a decently functional personal studio, capable of producing professional quality output, for probably under $500, if you buy a used computer or build one from used parts. (I’m assuming audio interface ~$180, computer cost ~$320)
In this era, the knowledge in your head is more important than the amount of $ sunk into your equipment.
Message Edited by maxplanck on 02-20-2009 08:23 AM
Bait? OK, you don’t have to care whether your player is on pitch or not, but you are spending some effort (for what purpose?) getting on a thread of no apparent interest to you and telling everyone else that they must not care either. Bait?
Do some really think this was asking too much? There is an easy fix (different values in the pll registers for certain cases) and supposedly it’s been implemented in prerelease firmware. The quality of hardware to provide what was requested was already there. And as was was mentioned, inexpensive oscillators today are plenty precise for all but the most stringent requirements. I think this issue can be retired, pending the actual firmware, of course, thanks to your diligence!!
Accuracy in pitch matters more to some than others. It’s an indisputable fact, so lets not get heated about each other’s preferences & get this thread locked too…
It would be nice to keep it on a technical level, rather than discussing whether each other’s preferences are valid. Pretty please…
Accuracy in pitch matters more to some than others. It’s an indisputable fact, so lets not get heated about each other’s preferences & get this thread locked too…
It would be nice to keep it on a technical level, rather than discussing whether each other’s preferences are valid. Pretty please…
It’s a simple engineering issue, preference is involved but ultimately it boils down to good engineering practices. When designing a product, should you design it so that:
A) It meets the needs of all users
or
B) It meets the needs of only some users
If both options cost the same, then obviously the engineer should choose option A.
(In this case option A costs slightly more than option B in terms of battery life, but quantitative analysis reveals that option A can be had for negligible cost of battery life).
Accuracy in pitch matters more to some than others. It’s an indisputable fact, so lets not get heated about each other’s preferences & get this thread locked too…
It would be nice to keep it on a technical level, rather than discussing whether each other’s preferences are valid. Pretty please…
It’s a simple engineering issue, preference is involved but ultimately it boils down to good engineering practices. When designing a product, should you design it so that:
A) It meets the needs of all users
or
B) It meets the needs of only some users
If both options cost the same, then obviously the engineer should choose option A.
(In this case option A costs slightly more than option B in terms of battery life, but quantitative analysis reveals that option A can be had for negligible cost of battery life).
