4 gig clip brightness question

Anyone willing to hack a 4 gig apart and see if you can remove the reflective coating?

Newbie here to the forum. Received two 4GB clips today. Unfortunately, I have to echo the complaints about the inablity to navigate the screen when outside in daylight. I’m dissapointed that the expensive design Engineers at Sandisk could overlook such a basic feature/need, in a player designed to be gym/workout friendly. I own several different players and wanted this one for working out, and the Rhapsody DNA, but because of this screen issue, it is lacking.

Maybe with enough feedback from 4GB customers, Sandisk will address the issue. If this feature is important to you, I unfortunately would also advise you defer a purchase until it is corrected.

On a positive note, the sound quality is very good and the form factor is cool. The reflective screen is easily subject to smudges and fingerprints.

Cllipman wrote:


ishturkish wrote:

Miikerman,

Yes. I own both the 2gb and 4gb clips. While I love the form factor, sound quality, and features, the inability to use the 4gb model outside during the day is a real problem.
Other users have reported the same issue, which looks like a problem with the reflective coating. It both significantly dims the display, and increases glare.


I’d be willing to bet that the piece of plastic covering the entire front of the 4GB is tinted- as I don’t see how they could achieve the seemless “one piece” look without that being so- So I’d assume that that is the problem. Don’t know why SanDisk can’t acknowledge that simple fact.

According to mkoplow, tech support did acknowlege it when he called them.

mkoplow wrote:
It appears that this defect is the norm for the 4 gig player.  I have returned mine back to sandisk and they are supposed to be sending me a new unit.  Upon various phone calls to sansa support (both from the sandisk line and the sansa shop line), I received mixed messages.

Well, I got my 4GB Clip and the dim screen is unacceptable - the unit is going back. Yes, it may look sexy in the package, but once out of the box that’s where “sexy” turns to “shoddy”. The smoky screen is a big loser. I own the 2GB Clip and keep my screen brightness at about 35%. It is just fine at that brightness for me even outside. With the 4GB Clip screen set at 100% it is still not half as bright. So Sandisk wants me to waste loads of battery power just to make it half readable in cupped hands? Add to that the fact that it always seems to have fingerprints showing, no matter how many times I clean it. What a design blunder. I’m guessing the techs’ take on this, saying one unit “may be defective” when you call, is just spin.

I don’t think this fashion-over-function screen problem will be solved soon. This product shipped late and didn’t even come with the latest firmware edition installed. I needed a second unit and so just put an Amazon order in for another 2GB clip. I’ll watch this forum in the months ahead for 4GB Clip version 2.0 news…and to see how Sandisk manages their screw up.

mkoplow wrote:
Anyone willing to hack a 4 gig apart and see if you can remove the reflective coating?

That assumes the reflective coating is something that can be removed from the inside.

First rule of making things:  If it can be put on, it can be taken off (although sometimes not easily!)

mkoplow wrote:
First rule of making things:  If it can be put on, it can be taken off (although sometimes not easily!)

Yeah, I think the “not easily” is going to be the issue, here.

Message Edited by PromisedPlanet on 03-06-2008 12:39 PM

All,

Good news! Help is coming for the 4 GB brightness issue in a FIrmware upgrade.  Yes the reflective coating cut the light output.  We have a plan to boost the brightness of the OLED and conserve its life by allowing it to turn off in USB connected mode.  The firmware upgrade should be available in 3-4 weeks.  Sorry for the inconvenience.

Cheers,

Sansa Fix

sansafix wrote:
All,

Good news! Help is coming for the 4 GB brightness issue in a FIrmware upgrade.  Yes the reflective coating cut the light output.  We have a plan to boost the brightness of the OLED and conserve its life by allowing it to turn off in USB connected mode.  The firmware upgrade should be available in 3-4 weeks.  Sorry for the inconvenience.

That IS good news … especially the bit about turning off the OLED in USB connected mode … BUT …

 

How will the increased OLED brightness affect battery usage … I assume we can expect greater battery usage, which will increase the frequency of recharge cycles, which will shorten the battery’s lifespan?

Message Edited by PromisedPlanet on 03-06-2008 12:55 PM

There will be no changes to the 1 and 2 GB versions,  FYI for this.

Yes,  more OLED output will require more current, but you will be able to turn down the brightness to mitigate it if you want.

You can also set the backlight timeout to be shorter.

When you are listening to music after the OLED turns off , there is no impact to the battery life.

Hope this helps.

Message Edited by sansafix on 03-06-2008 10:21 AM

This appears to be a workaround to a fundamentally flawed problem.  Increasing the brightness of the OLED will indeed decrease the battery life of the player as it draws more current. 

“We have a plan to boost the brightness of the OLED and conserve its life by allowing it to turn off in USB connected mode.”  – This will have zero effect on the time to drain the battery when you are actually using it (ie unplugged).  This will not conserve the life of the battery (ie allowing you to listen to it longer).

“Yes,  more OLED output will require more current, but you will be able to turn down the brightness to mitigate it if you want.” – Whats the point of turning down the brightness of the LEDs to save battery life if the problem currently is that they aren’t bright enough? 

Is there currently an estimate as to if the brightness will approach the brightness of the other players and the estimated battery life of the player with the new brightness settings?

I noticed that the brightness of the 4G clip I just received yesterday appears to be the same as my 1G Sansa Express; both seem to have the same sort of reflective/mirrored screen appearance - not that it really matters to anyone but I thought I’d mention it.

mkoplow wrote:
This appears to be a workaround to a fundamentally flawed problem.  Increasing the brightness of the OLED will indeed decrease the battery life of the player as it draws more current. 

“We have a plan to boost the brightness of the OLED and conserve its life by allowing it to turn off in USB connected mode.”  – This will have zero effect on the time to drain the battery when you are actually using it (ie unplugged).  This will not conserve the life of the battery (ie allowing you to listen to it longer).

“Yes,  more OLED output will require more current, but you will be able to turn down the brightness to mitigate it if you want.” – Whats the point of turning down the brightness of the LEDs to save battery life if the problem currently is that they aren’t bright enough? 

Is there currently an estimate as to if the brightness will approach the brightness of the other players and the estimated battery life of the player with the new brightness settings?

Because not everyone has a problem with the brightness (albiet there is a difference) and wouldn’t mind turning it down to save some battery.

Personaly, I would trade some battery life for the brightness. But then again, im the kinda guy that charges his player everyday, regardless of usage. So battery life has never been an issue.

If they can stay at the 12-13 hour mark, I’m picking one of these up.

Message Edited by Enigma on 03-06-2008 01:44 PM

If the workaround works, then I’m all for it.  Personally I don’t see the point of sacrificing functionality for a marginally better form.  And the problem isn’t indoors (although yes it is dimmer indoors).  The main problem is that it is completely unreadable outside whatsoever.  You would have to memorize functions calls to be able to use it outside or even in your car as a passenger.  That is the big problem.

mkoplow wrote:
If the workaround works, then I’m all for it. 

Most likely it’s going to work at the expense of (1) battery life, or (2) length of outdoor display time.

Enigma wrote:

Personaly, I would trade some battery life for the brightness. But then again, im the kinda guy that charges his player everyday, regardless of usage. So battery life has never been an issue.

 

But an increased number of recharge cycles means a decrease in battery lifespan, doesn’t it?

So the question on the impact is what is the duty cycle of usage of the OLED.  If the Boosted OLED Doubles the current draw it will be about 25% more total current.  Assuming the OLED is on only 1.5 hours out of 15 hours playtime (10%),  then you are looking at a 2.5% reduction in battery life.

Sansafix,

Thanks for acknowledging the problem and for the update.

In terms of the firmware update, I’d like to request two things. First, turning off the screen during USB charge would be very useful for the 2gb and 1gb models as well. Second, if you do implement a brighter OLED setting, have the option of quickly switching between regular and max brightness (like holding down a certain key). It is a pain to fiddle through all the menus every time I go outside, and I wouldn’t want to have it on extra bright by default when using it indoors.

Generally though, this feels like a band aid for an amputee. There is a real design flaw that can’t really be addressed without a manufacturing change. Is a non-reflecting 4gb model in the works?

Regarding the proposed 3-4 week ETA firmware upgrade: OK, I’m interested enough to keep my 4GB clip and give the upgrade a chance. The ability to be able to navigate the screen is worth the tradeoff to me of sacrificing some battery life. Without the ability to navigate the screen menus when outside in daylight, the 4GB Clip is very difficult to be practically useable. I have even tried the suggested cupping my hands over the screen and squinting, but to no avail. I hope the fix works.

My secondary issue is the smudge/fingerprint magnet nature of the reflective screen, but I would guess that  will require a long-term fix and I’ll just have to deal with that in the meantime.

Can I request to be notified by Sansa when the firmware upgrade becomes available? Thanks!

PromisedPlanet wrote:


Enigma wrote:

Personaly, I would trade some battery life for the brightness. But then again, im the kinda guy that charges his player everyday, regardless of usage. So battery life has never been an issue.


 

But an increased number of recharge cycles means a decrease in battery lifespan, doesn’t it?

I have never, in my lifetime, ran into that as a problem. By the time the battery lifespan starts getting affected to the point that im upset with the player, I will probably own a few new ones.

I mean, reasonably speaking, youll see minus 1-2 hours of battery life over the course of a year or 2. O no! I deal with it and think its acceptable, considering the technology limits given by the battery. It will happen to most players I buy with a rechargable battery.

So again, I just bite the bullet and accept it as part of player. I look at a battery life on a box and subtract 5 hours, if I’m happy with that, then its sold.