1st problem with 8GB Clip already...

I think what I’ll try to do when I get home tonight is to re-encode some of the songs that are currently on the player to CBR 192 MP3 files, since the firmware notes specifically mention that bitrate as having been fixed.  The recode will come from FLAC files, CBR 320 files, and VBR files.  Then retest and see.

Message Edited by Warrior1986 on 03-02-2009 08:19 AM

@marvin_martian wrote:
I’ve got a couple CD’s with 20 minute songs…I wonder what would happen there? Either way, I don’t have time to mess with it today.

The clip will be off by ~25 seconds by the end of the song :wink: Well, I never tested anything that long, but it was over 5 seconds with a 5 minutes track on both of my 8GB clips.

@warrior1986 wrote:
I think what I’ll try to do when I get home tonight is to re-encode some of the songs that are currently on the player to CBR 192 MP3 files, since the firmware notes specifically mention that bitrate as having been fixed.  The recode will come from FLAC files, CBR 320 files, and VBR files.  Then retest and see.

That won’t probably help you, but try it, who knows… :wink: My temporary advice is different. Re-sample to 48KHz. I know, sounds stupid. But 48KHz is almost accurate, for whatever reason. Until they fix 44.1kHz pitch error, I’m sticking to 48KHz.

I just checked my 8gb Clip with *.32 firmware it lags by 3 seconds at 8 minutes playing a FLAC file.

This product sucks I would NEVER have bought this thing if I knew about this bug.

There is another bug playing FLAC where if you fast forward it will pop at some point only playing beginning to end is clean.

Then there is the playlist bug where it will not see a file name with a German character.

If I recall correctly, a fix is in the works and is in QA testing right now.

@miikerman wrote:
If I recall correctly, a fix is in the works and is in QA testing right now.

Yes, but it also means there are a few months left before it’s released…

@bungl wrote:


@warrior1986 wrote:
I think what I’ll try to do when I get home tonight is to re-encode some of the songs that are currently on the player to CBR 192 MP3 files, since the firmware notes specifically mention that bitrate as having been fixed.  The recode will come from FLAC files, CBR 320 files, and VBR files.  Then retest and see.


 

That won’t probably help you, but try it, who knows… :wink: My temporary advice is different. Re-sample to 48KHz. I know, sounds stupid. But 48KHz is almost accurate, for whatever reason. Until they fix 44.1kHz pitch error, I’m sticking to 48KHz.

Any free program that I can use to do the resampling?  I use dbPowerAmp for all my converting and encoding, but it doesn’t seem to have anything to do resampling.

@warrior1986 wrote:

 

Any free program that I can use to do the resampling?  I use dbPowerAmp for all my converting and encoding, but it doesn’t seem to have anything to do resampling.

I’m under Linux, so no idea about win/mac, but the encoders themselves have such an option. E.g. Lame and oggenc have --resample input option. I’m sure it’s cross-platform.

I encode to flac and then resample & re-encode (to ogg) on the fly when copying to clip. Works like a charm.

@bungl wrote:


@warrior1986 wrote:

 

Any free program that I can use to do the resampling?  I use dbPowerAmp for all my converting and encoding, but it doesn’t seem to have anything to do resampling.


 

I’m under Linux, so no idea about win/mac, but the encoders themselves have such an option. E.g. Lame and oggenc have --resample input option. I’m sure it’s cross-platform.

I encode to flac and then resample & re-encode (to ogg) on the fly when copying to clip. Works like a charm.

Ahh crap, I’m an idiot.  I never looked under the advanced tab with the Lame codec when using dbPowerAmp.  Sure enough, there’s a drop-down menu for frequency, which I’ve now set to 48 KHz (DAT).  Let’s see what happens on this re-encode pass.

Message Edited by Warrior1986 on 03-02-2009 02:18 PM

OMFG bungl!  THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!:smiley:

The resampling trick works.  While the music is still not perfectly in sync, it is SO MUCH better now.  Before, when I got to 30 seconds on the song on the computer, the Clip was already at LEAST a full second behind, probably more like 1.5-1.75 seconds.  Now, when I get to 30 seconds, the Clip is actually ahead, but only by like .25 seconds, at most .5 seconds.

So now while the music is playing faster than it should, it’s a million times better because it is a lot closer in sync. So I don’t mind that it’s marginally faster now.  It’s much much harder to tell the difference, so my brain isn’t flipping out saying “WHY DOES THIS SOUND DIFFERENT FROM THE COMPUTER OR CD OR RADIO!!!”

So to approach the problem from this angle, what does it mean in terms of what’s wrong with the player, that we have to resample our music from 44.1 to 48 KHz?  Is it simply that the ARM processor isn’t running at the proper clock speed?

Message Edited by Warrior1986 on 03-02-2009 03:50 PM

I have to say, after doing that little test yesterday, that ok, there is a slight playback speed issue. Some have it play too fast, some too slow, etc. I will say, however, that listening to music I’ve owned for years and years, both on my Clip and Fuze… I can’t hear anything wrong.  Perhaps if I was playing an instrument alongside, etc, it would be more noticeable.  So I shall continue to enjoy my Sansas, knowing that they are aware of the issue and working on it. :smiley:

@warrior1986 wrote:

So to approach the problem from this angle, what does it mean in terms of what’s wrong with the player, that we have to resample our music from 44.1 to 48 KHz?  Is it simply that the ARM processor isn’t running at the proper clock speed?

Yeah, something like that. For some odd reason 48KHz is more accurate than 44.1KHz. Not a big issue for me now that I know about it, I can enjoy my music at last. There are other threads about it if you’re interested. Some are in the fuze section. People made some tests, more knowledgable ones drew some interesting conclusions.

It is however connected to the clock speed. AFAIR sansafix wrote it’s so because it saved 5% of battery life. I’d like to meet the sansa guy, who thought 5% of battery life is more important than playing the music accurately on the MUSIC PLAYER.

@marvin_martian wrote:
I will say, however, that listening to music I’ve owned for years and years, both on my Clip and Fuze… I can’t hear anything wrong.  Perhaps if I was playing an instrument alongside, etc, it would be more noticeable.

Are you talking about V1 or V2 devices? Because there is a big difference if I remember correctly.

I would also ask you and other people to stop this nonsense argument about playing instruments, being a musician etc. I haven’t been playing any for 10 years, I’m not an audiophile, I don’t have fancy audio equipment at home. And yet, somehow, miraculously, being used to accurate CD playback, I can hear a 2% pitch error. OMG, it has to be a blessing, because 99,9% of the forum Sansa Gurus can’t hear it!

The other thing is - if YOU don’t hear it, than YOU don’t have a problem. But the bug IS there and it’s confirmed by sandisk. Some can hear it, some cannot.

Nevertheless, I’m happy they didn’t screw up the 48KHz as well… :) 

If they fix it, I’ll be happy, because resampling takes some time, but I won’t cry if they don’t.

Message Edited by bungl on 03-03-2009 01:15 AM

Message Edited by bungl on 03-03-2009 01:16 AM

Message Edited by bungl on 03-03-2009 01:24 AM

So in order to use the clip I have to reencode at 48khz and remove all German characters from my operas and other works?   

They need to fix the bugs.

@petipa wrote:

So in order to use the clip I have to reencode at 48khz and remove all German characters from my operas and other works?   

No. You can resample to 48KHz if you are not comfortable with currenct speed of 44.1KHz on your device (I wasn’t and thus I resampled. No big deal for me).

As for German characters - what file format are you using? I’m using flac and ogg and I can see accented characters.

I can definitely confirm that UTF-8 in vorbis comments works as expected. But that’s the standard of Vorbis AFAIK. Not sure about other formats and their preferred encodings.

The clip displays the Umlaut und Eszett just fine in my German mp3 files.

@bungl wrote:


@marvin_martian wrote:
I will say, however, that listening to music I’ve owned for years and years, both on my Clip and Fuze… I can’t hear anything wrong.  Perhaps if I was playing an instrument alongside, etc, it would be more noticeable.


 

Are you talking about V1 or V2 devices? Because there is a big difference if I remember correctly.

My Fuze and 2GB Clip are Rev. 1, and my 8GB Clip is Rev. 2. 

Message Edited by Marvin_Martian on 03-03-2009 10:08 AM

The Clip plays and displays file names with German ä, ö, and ü but if I make a playlist any files with those letters are not in the playlist when I play the list in the Clip.

Message Edited by petipa on 03-04-2009 02:57 AM

btw how it behaves when playing 16 kHz or lower files?

The solution to the playlist problem is to use AutoM3U and M3U8 format.