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SanDisk Guru
JK98
Posts: 2,778
Registered: ‎09-13-2008
0

AA battery powered mp3 player?

[ Edited ]
I would love to see an mp3 player that is powered by a AA battery and has a full sized SDXC card slot. It would be even better if it navigates by a choice of folders or  ID3 tags, and especially appreciated if it has AM  as well as FM HD radio. Not everyone wants the smallest possible player, but most people do want a player that will fit comfortably in a typical shirt pocket.
Message Edited by JK98 on 12-11-2009 03:33 PM
Newbie
vidra
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎08-02-2008

Re: AA battery powered mp3 player?

I second that. Sleekness and the cool-factor mean little to me. Rechargeable NiMH AA batteries have a much higher capacity, they are cheap, replaceable and you can have a spare set lying around to use while the old ones are charging. I'm pretty sure there are others like us out there, so how about designing a chubby AA-battery player for us engineering types who prefer functionality to appearance :smileyhappy:?
SanDisk Guru
JK98
Posts: 2,778
Registered: ‎09-13-2008
0

Re: AA battery powered mp3 player?

[ Edited ]

If Sandisk thinks that a AA battery based player will be too large, then how about some new AAA battery based players with a micro SD card slot,navigation by folders, and a low powered monochrome display that is on all the time the player is on. It could be like the display on a digital watch, and have a backlight that is on only while a dedicated button is pressed.

Message Edited by JK98 on 12-11-2009 03:36 PM
SanDisk Guru
Tapeworm
Posts: 15,129
Registered: ‎04-17-2008

Re: AA battery powered mp3 player?


JK98 wrote:
I would love to see an mp3 player that is powered by a AA battery and has a full sized SD card slot. It would be even better if it navigates by folders or by ID3 tags, and especially appreciated if it has AM radio as well. Not everyone wants the smallest possible player, but most people do want a player that will fit comfortably in a typical shirt pocket.

I'm curious; why would you want a player that runs on AA or even AAA batteries instead of the Li-Ion or Li-Poly batteries they use now? What advantage would there be? The existing batteries last 15 - 35 hours as it is; I doubt whether an alkaline battery is going to surpass that.

 

The existing batteries are re-chargeable, and suffer no 'memory' cycle, so they can be re-charged w/o depleting the charge down to nil. The typical re-chargable Ni-Cads or something similar do suffer the 'memory' cycle and so one can lose quite a bit of power and operating time if they don't follow the correct charging procedure.

 

The existing batterries are ecologically-friendly. They will last for years. Hopefully, someone will come up with a way to re-cycle them. But if AA or AAA size batteries were used; yes, a few people would buy re-chargables but I'll bet the majority would not. That would only benefit and pad the pockets of the companies that make Duracell & Energizer and put a lot more of these things into the landfills so they can leach into our ground water and poison our food and our children.

 

I'm also interested in hearing your reasons behind wanting a full-size card slot instead of the Micro card slot they have now. Is there some sort of advantage to the larger card? With the capacities getting larger as we speak, I don't see the attraction of a physically larger card. And I may not be a genius, but I'm not "dumber than a bag of hammers" either. I can't find any full-size card with a larger capacity then 8Gb. And there are Micro cards with that.

 

Folders? Yeah, OK. The existing tag system doesn't bother me, but I understand how folders could benefit some users by the way they organize their music. But SanDisk has already said (numerous times) that it ain't gonna happen! Time to stop beatin' that dead horse!

 

AM radio? I'm with you on that one, in theory. I very seldom, if ever listen to the FM radio on my Sansa. My musical library is a helluva lot better, and there's no commercials. But I would listen to various 'talk' radio discussions, news, etc. on AM ir it were available. the problem is the AM antennae and size. The player would have to be much larger and heavier than it is now, and with the marketplace and the competition going smaller & lighter, I doubt that SanDisk is going to reverse course 180 degrees and buck the tide! I sure wouldn't if I were at the helm!

 

Don't get me wrong . . . I'm am not trying to insult you or your ideas. Obviously, you have logical reasons behind these thoughts, but I can't see some of them. Perhaps if you explain or elaborate?

 

Of course, then again . . . maybe I AM dumber than a bag of hammers! :smileyvery-happy:

Newbie
vidra
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎08-02-2008

Re: AA battery powered mp3 player?

[ Edited ]

Hi. I know I'm not the OP but since I seconded some of his suggestions I'll try to answer some of your questions, namely the one concerning AA or AAA batteries.

 

The advantage of rechargeable NiMH batteries are as follows:

 

- much higher capacity. The Li-ion battery in my Fuze lasts 15-20 hours on a single charge, whereas one 2300mAh AA battery in my old i-River lasts over 40 hours, which is more than double the capacity.

 

- longer life and replaceability. NiMH batteries typically last longer and, much more importantly!!!, they can easily be replaced and are widely available. Li-ion batteries lose a significant proportion of their capacity each year (up to 20%) from the date of their manufacture. So what am I supposed to do with my pride and joy FUZE when the battery goes kaput or loses 50+% of its capacity in about 3 years?

 

The answer would probably be to buy a new one, but I don't want to do that. I'm happy with my player and I do not easily subscribe to the consumer mentality. The only reason I replaced my old i-River was because of the amount of its memory (256MB), which was a bit too low for many audiobooks. 8 GB is more than enough for audio and I'm not really interested in video so it's unlikely my appetites will soon increase.

 

As for buying rechargeable AA batteries, actually most people do buy them. It's an economically more viable solution than any alkaline battery, so people will unwittingly protect the environment as well.

 

This said, I am aware of the advantages of Li-ion batteries, and if only they were NOT proprietary and easily replaceable (like mobile phone batteries) I wouldn't worry so much. This way, when the battery in my FUZE dies on me, I'll have to pry it open and do all sorts of unsavoury things to it in order to either replace its battery or jerry-rig it so that it works on AA batteries and thus create a Frankenstein's monster out of my poor FUZE. Also, people who don't live in the developed world (like myself) have difficulty accessing some of the goods (like a sansa battery replacement kit) that you take for granted so that is why NiMH AA batteries have a strong advantage over Li-ion or Li-poly ones.

 

Cheers.

 

Edit: I'm not bothered about AM radio, namely the lack thereof and I also prefer using microSD cards.

Message Edited by vidra on 09-30-2008 02:06 PM
SanDisk Guru
Tapeworm
Posts: 15,129
Registered: ‎04-17-2008
0

Re: AA battery powered mp3 player?


vidra wrote:

The advantage of rechargeable NiMH batteries are as follows:

Respectfully discussing:

- much higher capacity. The Li-ion battery in my Fuze lasts 15-20 hours on a single charge, whereas one 2300mAh AA battery in my old i-River lasts over 40 hours, which is more than double the capacity. This was on you old i-river. How can you know what the charge/play time would be on the Sansa?

 

- longer life and replaceability. NiMH batteries typically last longer and, much more importantly!!!, they can easily be replaced and are widely available. What are widely available are the Duracell & Energizer alkalines. You can buy them just about anywhere; grocery stores, 7-11's, & virtually any place battery-powered 'toys' are sold. Not always so with re-chargeables. Li-ion batteries lose a significant proportion of their capacity each year (up to 20%) from the date of their manufacture. Just to set the record straight, the Fuze uses a Lithium-Polymer battery, not  a Lithium-Ion. So what am I supposed to do with my pride and joy FUZE when the battery goes kaput or loses 50+% of its capacity in about 3 years? I doubt very seriously whether this would happen. If that were the case, I'd be down to about 5 hours per charge on my e260 (Li-Ion battery) that's 2+ years old. I still get 12 -15 hours playing time. The Li-Poly battery is rated for up to 35 hours in the View using the same rating system (which comes awfully close to your old i-river claim)!

 

The answer would probably be to buy a new one, but I don't want to do that. I'm happy with my player and I do not easily subscribe to the consumer mentality. The only reason I replaced my old i-River was because of the amount of its memory (256MB), which was a bit too low for many audiobooks. 8 GB is more than enough for audio and I'm not really interested in video so it's unlikely my appetites will soon increase. I too, thought 8GB was plenty for my music collection, but as it is in a constant state of growth and expansion, I find today I only have 2.4GB free space left on my 8GB SDHC card & my 8GB player is full! And there are no videos on it. Just as 250 MB hard drives used to be considered monstrous, people found they needed/wanted more & more as time went by. Kind of like women & their purses. No matter how large they are, they will soon fill it up and need a larger one. :smileyvery-happy: Are you saying that in 5 years time when you're still using your 8GB Fuze and everybody else has got the latest & greatest 250GB audio player because they all now natively support true 'lossless' files because of the size in flash memory chip advancements and nobody really uses the old, antiquated 'lossy' mp3 format anymore, that you wouldn't want this new technology too? Technological advancment breeds obsolescence. You can't have the former without the latter.

 

As for buying rechargeable AA batteries, actually most people do buy them. I disagree. If that were the case, we'd be seeing that damm rabbit with the drum with an AC outlet in his back on the TV commercials. No, it's just too 'convenient' and cheaper (short, not long term) to pick up a package of the disposables. It's an economically more viable solution than any alkaline battery, so people will unwittingly protect the environment as well. I agree with the economic and environmental advantages, but I just don't think the majority of people consciously think about it, and practice good conservation (yet). Granted it's changing, but it's not there yet.

 

This said, I am aware of the advantages of Li-ion batteries, and if only they were NOT proprietary and easily replaceable (like mobile phone batteries) I wouldn't worry so much. Proprietary is the way of the world now, and has been going that way for some time, whether you agree with it or not. Everyone is so concerned and protective of their market-share, they don't want anybody else infringing on it. How many cell phones DO NOT use a proprietary battery; even within the brand name? No, EVERY cell phone model takes a different battery due to size or configuration or something. This way, when the battery in my FUZE dies on me, I'll have to pry it open and do all sorts of unsavoury things to it in order to either replace its battery or jerry-rig it so that it works on AA batteries and thus create a Frankenstein's monster out of my poor FUZE. Also, people who don't live in the developed world (like myself) have difficulty accessing some of the goods (like a sansa battery replacement kit) that you take for granted so that is why NiMH AA batteries have a strong advantage over Li-ion or Li-poly ones. I think that people who don't live in the 'developed world' have a lot more things to worry about than where they're going to find a replacement battery for their mp3 player. Most likely have never even heard of such a device. Any place that is 'developed' enough to where NiMH batteries are readily available will also have access to Li-Ion or Li-Poly ones if they're needed.

 

Cheers.

Appreciate the different viewpoint and opportunity for discussion! :smileyhappy:


 

SanDisk Guru
JK98
Posts: 2,778
Registered: ‎09-13-2008

Re: AA battery powered mp3 player?

"I'm curious; why would you want a player that runs on AA or even AAA batteries instead of the Li-Ion or Li-Poly batteries they use now? What advantage would there be? The existing batteries last 15 - 35 hours as it is; I doubt whether an alkaline battery is going to surpass that."

 

The advantage is not having to worry about battery power remaining, or to connect the player to charge. One could carry some spare batteries and never run out of power. AA or AAA battery does not equal alkaline. There are high capacity nimh AA and AAA batteries. Most chargers charge up to 4 of these at a time. A player using a AA or AAA battery could be packaged with a charger and 2 or 4 rechargeable nimh batteries if manufacturers want to discourage use of alkalines.

 

"The typical re-chargable Ni-Cads "

 

Nicad is very old low capacity technology. Nimh AA or AAA batteries are far superior technology and hold much more power. There are now 2900 mah AA nimh batteries, and 1000 mah AAA ones.

 

"The existing batterries are ecologically-friendly."

 

Are they? Is throwing away a player with a worn out built in battery eco friendly?

 

"I'm also interested in hearing your reasons behind wanting a full-size card slot instead of the Micro card slot they have now"

 

Full sized SD cards come in capacities up to 32 gigs. They also fit in a PC SD card slot without an adapter.

 

 

"AM radio? I'm with you on that one, in theory. I very seldom, if ever listen to the FM radio on my Sansa. My musical library is a helluva lot better, and there's no commercials. But I would listen to various 'talk' radio discussions, news, etc. on AM ir it were available. the problem is the AM antennae and size. The player would have to be much larger and heavier than it is now, and with the marketplace and the competition going smaller & lighter, I doubt that SanDisk is going to reverse course 180 degrees and buck the tide! I sure wouldn't if I were at the helm!"

 

I didn't say for all models, just for one model. Some would prefer having AM radio even if the player is a bit larger. It doesn't have to be huge though, just a bit larger.

 

 

SanDisk Guru
Tapeworm
Posts: 15,129
Registered: ‎04-17-2008
0

Re: AA battery powered mp3 player?


JK98 wrote:

 One could carry some spare batteries and never run out of power. True, but then that's one more thing you have to remember to carry with you; extra batteries. And how many times have you found yourself more than 12 - 15 continuous hours away from a computer or AC outlet to re-charge?

 

"The existing batterries are ecologically-friendly."

 

Are they? Is throwing away a player with a worn out built in battery eco friendly? Yes, I believe that a battery that can be re-charged over & over again for years (whether it be the Li-Ion, Li-Poly, or the NiMH style that you mention) before it has to be disposed of is ecologically-friendly. I'm also confident that we will be seeing more & more e-recyclers in the future and more access to them by the general public. Of much more concern than the tiny mp3 player being dumped in the landfill is the gov't. forced transition to the 'digital-only' signal after Feb. 9th next year, making millions of existing CRT TV's obsolete, unless you buy yet another piece of technology, the digital-to-analog converter box (which by the way, has been deemed a POS by most reviewers) and results in a further-reduced quality picture than what people are enjoying now! Talk about taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back!

 

"I'm also interested in hearing your reasons behind wanting a full-size card slot instead of the Micro card slot they have now"

 

Full sized SD cards come in capacities up to 32 gigs. This may or may not be an advantage if the current Sansa line of players do indeed have a problem with identifying and recognizing song counts over 4000. Hopefully they will work this out, but the Micro card technology is quickly approaching the same capacity threshold, and 'smaller' is and has alwys been the way of the future.

They also fit in a PC SD card slot without an adapter. An inconvenience maybe, but certainly not a deal-breaker. A lot of the micro cards come with an adaptor included.

 

 

"AM radio? I'm with you on that one, in theory. I very seldom, if ever listen to the FM radio on my Sansa. My musical library is a helluva lot better, and there's no commercials. But I would listen to various 'talk' radio discussions, news, etc. on AM ir it were available. the problem is the AM antennae and size. The player would have to be much larger and heavier than it is now, and with the marketplace and the competition going smaller & lighter, I doubt that SanDisk is going to reverse course 180 degrees and buck the tide! I sure wouldn't if I were at the helm!"

 

I didn't say for all models, just for one model. Some would prefer having AM radio even if the player is a bit larger. It doesn't have to be huge though, just a bit larger. I agree on the AM radio thing, and maybe it will happen. The CEO of SanDisk has said he supports the idea, but whether it can, physically or economically, be created and marketed (in other words, will enough people buy it to make it worth while) is still up in the air.

 

 


 

SanDisk Guru
JK98
Posts: 2,778
Registered: ‎09-13-2008

Re: AA battery powered mp3 player?

"True, but then that's one more thing you have to remember to carry with you; extra batteries. And how many times have you found yourself more than 12 - 15 continuous hours away from a computer or AC outlet to re-charge? "

 

it is easy enough to carry some spare batteries. With a player with a built in battery, if I deplete the power in the battery, I might be without use of the player for part of a day, but if I then forget to charge it when I get home, I might be without use of the player the next day as well. With rechargeable nimh batteries, most chargers will charge up to 4 at a time, and many chargers charge them in under an hour. Some charge them in just 15 minutes.

 

 

"Full sized SD cards come in capacities up to 32 gigs. This may or may not be an advantage if the current Sansa line of players do indeed have a problem with identifying and recognizing song counts over 4000. "

 

 

If there is indeed a 4000 song limit on the Fuze with the current firmware it is because they felt that few would exceed this with 16 gigs of storage. If a full sized SD slot was included instead, the limit would have been set higher.

 

Newbie
vidra
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎08-02-2008

Re: AA battery powered mp3 player?

Respectfully discussing:

- much higher capacity. The Li-ion battery in my Fuze lasts 15-20 hours on a single charge, whereas one 2300mAh AA battery in my old i-River lasts over 40 hours, which is more than double the capacity. This was on you old i-river. How can you know what the charge/play time would be on the Sansa?

 

- newer electronics is produced in smaller fabrication processes and uses less electricity/is more energy efficient. Relying on this logic and the fact that the task is the same - mp3 decoding (again I'm not interested in video) I gather it should last even longer.

 

***

 

- What are widely available are the Duracell & Energizer alkalines. You can buy them just about anywhere; grocery stores, 7-11's, & virtually any place battery-powered 'toys' are sold. Not always so with re-chargeables.

 

-  Almost all the people I know who use battery powered devices use NiMH rechargeables (with the exception of devices that specifically state that you shouldn't use such batteries with them, namely blood pressure measuring devices)

 

- Granted, rechargeables are not as widely available as non-rechargeables, yet they are easily accessible. In the town where I live you would be hard-pressed to find two spaced further apart than a ten-minute walk and I don't even live in the capital.

 

Just to set the record straight, the Fuze uses a Lithium-Polymer battery, not  a Lithium-Ion.

I stand corrected.

 

***

 

Next issue (very long section so I didn't copy/paste) regarding capacity.

 

I store all my mp3s on my hard drives and on DVDs so I don't need to keep them in my mp3 player, and yes, I'd like to keep my FUZE for as long as it's in working order. 

 

***

 

As for buying rechargeable AA batteries, actually most people do buy them. I disagree. If that were the case, we'd be seeing that damm rabbit with the drum with an AC outlet in his back on the TV commercials. No, it's just too 'convenient' and cheaper (short, not long term) to pick up a package of the disposables.

 

Maybe this is culture specific. Also, the AA player would probably appeal to more economy-minded people who would go for the rechargeables (and then again maybe not). Anyway, I'm all for choice.

 

***

 

Proprietary is the way of the world now

Fine, let them make a little slide-off panel at the back of the player and make their batteries as widely available as those of leading mobile manufacturers (there's a mobile shop on every corner, where I live) and I'll stop complaining - I promise.

 

***

 

I think that people who don't live in the 'developed world' have a lot more things to worry about than where they're going to find a replacement battery for their mp3 player. Most likely have never even heard of such a device. Any place that is 'developed' enough to where NiMH batteries are readily available will also have access to Li-Ion or Li-Poly ones if they're needed.

 

Depends on your definition of 'developed'. I personally live in Serbia, which, while it is no Somalia, is far less developed than Western Europe, the US, Japan, etc and while you can definitely buy generic Li-Ion and Li-Poly batteries, as well as those produced by leading cell-phone producers, you'd have a truly hard time finding a Sandisk Sansa battery. Also, it's nigh-on impossible to get technical goods mailed to my country since even if I find an e-tailer that ships to Serbia, the goods are almost certain to be stolen either by customs or mail officials and there isn't a damned thing I can do about it.

 

***

 

And how many times have you found yourself more than 12 - 15 continuous hours away from a computer or AC outlet to re-charge?

Each time I go on holiday to Montenegro, although admittedly this does not happen very often.

 

Cheers