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SanDisk Fanatic
miltst
Posts: 221
Registered: ‎02-26-2009
0

Re: Replay Gain: A how to informational


p_opus wrote:

....Note:  Fuze does not support APEv2 tags used by MP3Gain.....

 

This is true and false..

 

It's true that the Fuze won't support the APEv2 tags used by MP3Gain, but the APEv2 tags are what MP3Gain uses to note the analysis and undo information only.  MP3Gain actually modifies the "global gain" on each frame of the MP3 file.  As a result, players that don't support normal Replay Gain, will see obvious Gain improvements with MP3Gain.  I have used MP3Gain on all my MP3's and have noted SIGNIFICANT differences in gain from files that were not modified by MP3Gain and files that were.  Every Sansa I have owned noted Gain changes on files modified with MP3Gain.

 

Replay Gain does NOT modify the "global gain" of each frame, and as a result, a player supporting Replay Gain is required for you to notice gain changes made by Replay Gain.

 

Since the Sansa Fuze does not support the APEv2 tags used by MP3Gain, turning on or off Replay Gain on the Fuze will have absolutely no affect on playback in the Fuze.  However if you use MP3Gain to modify an MP3 file then the gain increase or decrease you applied via MP3Gain will definitely be noticable when played back on the Fuze, even with Replay Gain off.

 

Many people prefer Replay Gain because all the Gain adjustments are made in the tag.  Thus the actual file is not changed.   The danger of using MP3Gain is that if for some reason, the APEv2 data is lost of the file, then you lose the ability to undo your gain changes, and now your MP3 is "stuck" at the gain it was at prior to losing the tags.  Now, if you "remember" the original values, you can re-run MP3Gain and undo your changes.  But there is a small risk that in case of metatag corruption you might be "stuck" at the new gain value.

 

With Replay Gain, there is no modification of the global Gain values in the MP3 frames.  As a result, if you lose the metadata, you lose nothing.  It's safer.  The downside is, your player MUST support Replay Gain to get any benefit at all.

 

I prefer MP3Gain, as I don't have to worry whether or not my player will support it or not.  I can play my MP3 through any application and my Gain changes will be read.  Since I backup all my music regularly, then I don't feel too worried about losing the metadata, since I can always delete the corrupt file and restore from the backup.

 

Hope this clarifies things.


That's exactly what I was (rather poorly) trying to explain in my previous post. It was late and I needed to get to bed so I had just done a rush job at trying to get something posted to give people a little insight into things. I was hoping someone else would come along provide a better explaination than I had time to. You did a GREAT job of clearifying what I was trying to point out earlier. Thank you p_opus!!!

 

SanDisk Guru
Miikerman
Posts: 7,231
Registered: ‎12-11-2007
0

Re: Replay Gain: A how to informational

Thank you to both of you for your salient explanations.  I've used MP3Gain (over Replay Gain) for its universality for many years, and the above explanations provide the underlying technological reasons which I knew but didn't fully understand. 
SanDisk Fanatic
miltst
Posts: 221
Registered: ‎02-26-2009
0

Re: Replay Gain: A how to informational

I should also point out that no one has been working on or updating MP3Gain since the beginning of 2005. As such, at some point, the various changes it makes to the MP3 files and additional tags may now longer work correctly or may cause other problems with playing while playing the files. The reason MP3Gain may (eventually) no longer be of any use is because of the on-going changes to the ID3 tag specifications.

 

As more and more players start using the newer ID3 tag specs, there is a chance that they may no longer be fully backwards compatible with the way MP3Gain was designed to do things (way back in 2005 with an older and now outdated ID3 tag spec).

 

On the other hand though, the people behind Replay Gain are still continuing to work and update their stuff to keep up with the ID3 tag spec changes. So, Replay Gain stands a much better chance of remaining funtional in the future.

 

Things are now changing far to rapidly with all forms of technology these days. So, what worked yesterday may no longer work tomorrow. It's getting really hard to keep up with everything and it's difficult to keep everthing updated to the newest, latest, greatest, whatever.

 

SanDisk Guru
drlucky
Posts: 2,899
Registered: ‎07-18-2007
0

Re: Replay Gain: A how to informational


miltst wrote:

I should also point out that no one has been working on or updating MP3Gain since the beginning of 2005.  

 

 

On the other hand though, the people behind Replay Gain are still continuing to work and update their stuff to keep up with the ID3 tag spec changes. So, Replay Gain stands a much better chance of remaining funtional in the future.


 

well which one is it? and what are your sources?  

 

SanDisk Fanatic
miltst
Posts: 221
Registered: ‎02-26-2009
0

Re: Replay Gain: A how to informational

[ Edited ]

drlucky wrote:

miltst wrote:

I should also point out that no one has been working on or updating MP3Gain since the beginning of 2005.  

 

 

On the other hand though, the people behind Replay Gain are still continuing to work and update their stuff to keep up with the ID3 tag spec changes. So, Replay Gain stands a much better chance of remaining funtional in the future.


 

well which one is it? and what are your sources?  

 


My comments are just an opinion and pure speculation on my part.

 

Many companies have added Replay Gain support to their music management and ripping software. Likewise, many portable player manufacturers have been including support for it as well (just like Sandisk added support for it in the latest Fuze firmware upgrade). It also appears that the people involved with changes to the ID3 Tag specification seem to be leaving more options to allow Replay Gain than they are for MP3Gain.

 

Rather than relying on my speculation about things, I'd recommend you do some Google searches for MP3Gain, Replay Gain, and ID3 Tags and then decide for yourself which one is likely to continue to work in the future. At this point in time they both work. If they both will continue to do work, or if one wins out over the other in the future still remains to be seen.

 

Just as a side note... MP3Gain only works with MP3 files, while Replay Gain can be used with many other file types like FLAC or OGG (if your music management or ripping software has Replay Gain sound leveling support built in or if it can be added as a a plug-in).

 

(Edited to add comment about additional file types)

Message Edited by miltst on 04-10-2009 05:14 AM
SanDisk Fanatic
p_opus
Posts: 214
Registered: ‎06-20-2008
0

Re: Replay Gain: A how to informational

I am not worried about the future of MP3Gain.  Almost all the players now ignore APEv2 tags, which is fine, since the gain information is not stored there.  Like I said before the Gain adjustment is made to the actual "global" gain settings in each frame of the MP3 itself.  Regardless of changes in the ID3tag specification, the actual "playback" mechanism for MP3's will not change.  So as long as MP3Gain can write the APEv2 tags and read them to make their adjustment, changes in the ID3 Tag standard should not affect this.

 

Several years ago, players did attempt to read the APEv2 tags which would cause corrupted data to be displayed for "album/track/etc".  Mp3Gain even has the option to not write the APEv2 tags, or remove them on existing files.  Now this does eliminate your ability to automatically "undo" your Gain changes, and you would have to manually track the original Gain of the file.  But since all the current players ignore the APEv2 tag, it's more an more a non issue.

 

What it comes down to is simply this.

 

1.  Do you want to adjust Gain for multiple file formats?  Use Replay Gain

2.  Do you want to be able to change between album gain and song gain on the fly on your player?  Use Replay Gain

3.  Do you want to make sure that there are no actual changes to the actual MP3 file, original file?  Use Replay Gain

4.  Do you want to make sure that your gain adjustments can be read and played back on ANY device capable of playing MP3's?  Use MP3Gain.

 

 

SanDisk Fanatic
George-W
Posts: 303
Registered: ‎08-27-2008
0

Re: Replay Gain: A how to informational

To much thought for me!!  I'll leave it off for now and it is nice to know it's there for future use should I want or have to use it..  I may just be going to MP3's at 256kbps and be calling it good!!  Still In the thought proses though!!  George
*His* 8GB Silver Fuze v01.02.31A also 8GB MicroSDHC card installed *Hers* 4GB red Fuze with 16GB micro SDHC card! Firmware v01.02.31A still installed. Acquired another 8GB Fuze also with firmware v01.02.31A now..
SanDisk Guru
sansafix
Posts: 1,235
Registered: ‎10-24-2007
0

Re: Replay Gain: A how to informational

[ Edited ]

Suggestion:

 

 

Use Media Monkey and rip CDs to FLAC (or MP3) format and have it automatically analyse the track volume in the process.  Then you wont need to go back and analyze all the tracks later should you decide to use it.

Message Edited by sansafix on 04-10-2009 08:49 AM
SanDisk User
RickH
Posts: 79
Registered: ‎01-05-2008
0

Re: Replay Gain: A how to informational

I use & prefer Media Jukebox.  Replay Gain will only work with Media Monkey? 
SanDisk Professor
Skinjob
Posts: 682
Registered: ‎04-18-2008
0

Re: Replay Gain: A how to informational


RickH wrote:
I use & prefer Media Jukebox.  Replay Gain will only work with Media Monkey? 

 

Not sure about Media Jukebox, but most of the big players support replaygain these days.  Winamp has had it for years.