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Posts: 16
Registered: ‎12-09-2008
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Lack of music folder on external memory?

I recently filled up my Fuze's internal memory, then found some more music I wanted on it, so decided to put it on my "external memory", I saw the folders:

     AUDIOBOOKS

     MSC

     photo

     PODCASTS

     video

(I think these were created when I formatted it...before the last firmware update I filled up the internal memory, and everything ended up corrupted, so I reformatted it all and started over, being careful to leave some space on both internal and external memories)

 

...but no music folder.  In the past, I've tried to create a "music" folder in the root of the external memory, but the Fuze ends up renaming it "New Folder" or something like that, then screws up the name of anything inside it (not the MP3 tags, just the names as they appear in WinXP).

 

So last night, I tried to copy the music to the "MSC" folder.  I created a parent folder ("Camel"...the groups name), then inside that I copied the album:

     "1975 - The Snow Goose [Remastered 2002]"

 

...however, when I looked tonight, it renamed that subfolder to the cryptic:

    D50F0000_1975 - The Snow Goose [Remas

(with the last few letters cut off).  What am I doing wrong? Was the folder name simply too long?

 

I noticed it did the same to an audio book I copied over:

     "E10E0000_4. So Long and Thanks for al"

(as opposed to what was copied: "4. So Long and Thanks for all the Fish")

 

...I can understand if the names were too long (in fact, I'm experimenting now with shorter names)...but why no "music" folder?  And also (and this is being really **bleep**, I know) why they mix of UPPERCASE and lowercase folders when formatting?  The Internal memory labels the folders properly.

 

Dave

4.0 GB Sansa Fuze

Firmware: 1.01.22

4.0 GB microSD

Dave
4GB Sansa Fuze (red)
Firmware V01.22.26A
4GB microSD SanDisk external memory
SanDisk Guru
Posts: 16,081
Registered: ‎04-17-2008

Re: Lack of music folder on external memory?

You are probably trying to do this in MTP mode. Try switching your player to MSC and then re-connect. In this mode, you should be able to create any new folder and name it whatever you want. And it should stick.

 

Btw, it's been many, many moons since I've heard any Camel. I used to have a couple of their LP's. Way back in the 70's.

 

Ahh, the good 'ol days. Everything was cheap & easy back then, especially the drugs & women. Ooops! I probably shouldn't have said that. Smiley Tongue

Newbie
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎01-03-2009

Re: Lack of music folder on external memory?

My external card has never had a music folder.  I just copy the music from my homeserver over to the external card.  It's never changed anything and always creates the folder.  In fact I just picked up an 8gb SanDisk card last night from Staples.  Stuck the card in the player and copied music to it, still no music folder.
SanDisk Fanatic
Posts: 294
Registered: ‎03-24-2008

Re: Lack of music folder on external memory?

[ Edited ]

I've also seen all the nasty things you describe when using MTP mode.

 

MTP is supposed to hide the details of the underlying filesystem from the host PC, so what Windows Explorer 'sees' as folders and files are just objects in the MTP protocol exchange between the player and the PC.

 

The player is supposed to be able to store the actual tracks and album and folder associations in whatever way suits it - the details are hidden behind MTP. All the host PC sees are protocol objects, generated on request, using info stored on the player,

but which is not directly visible. I think this is why MTP transferred tracks (in internal memory) are not visible in MSC mode - the player stores them in its own (non-FAT) way.

 

But for the  uSD card, this 'file system hiding' is broken - the user can do an end-run round MTP and plug the uSD directly into a

PC, and it must look like a disk drive with a FAT filesystem, using FAT file and directory names, and the tracks must be visible.

 

This means that the when you transfer (via MTP) a directory/track hierarchy to the Fuze uSD, the Fuze must generate a FAT filesystem names and directory structures from the MTP objects

 

I think the final step is broken in the Fuze (or at least cracked). It does not always seem to be able to map MTP objects and operations to FAT filesystem elements and operations.

 

I tend to use MSC mode now, and it all seems to work much more reliably.

 

It's almost as if the underlying Austria MicroSytems chipset was designed to work as an MSC/UMS device, and MTP was trowelled on afterwards because it had to be supported in the marketplace...

 

 

Message Edited by daytona955 on 01-29-2009 12:47 AM
SanDisk Guru
Posts: 3,676
Registered: ‎12-04-2008

Re: Lack of music folder on external memory?


CoindoorDave wrote:

I recently filled up my Fuze's internal memory, then found some more music I wanted on it, so decided to put it on my "external memory", I saw the folders:

     AUDIOBOOKS

     MSC

     photo

     PODCASTS

     video

<--Snip-->

Did you check inside the MSC folder? Mine has appeard there.


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Newbie
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎12-09-2008

Re: Lack of music folder on external memory?

First off - thanks everyone!

 

Conversion Box - Yep, in fact that's where I created my "artist" folder, inside which I copied the album (there were no subfolders in MSC)

 

So I switched from USB mode "Auto" to "MSC" then plugged in the player.  It now shows up as two drives (before it was one) and on the later of the two was a single "music" folder...inside THAT were "Audiobooks", "podcasts", etc...moving them back to the root only resulted in a second set being recreated inside MUSIC.

 

One other thing...I can now, no longer see any of the music on the internal memory when I had the USB setting of "Auto Detect".   Does "Auto Detect" defaut to MTP?  I use Windows Media Player to rip, then copy them using Windows Explorer (like I would to a thumb drive).  My concern now is - are there two formats on this (the older ones in MTP and the newer ones in MSC)?

 

Thanks again

Dave
4GB Sansa Fuze (red)
Firmware V01.22.26A
4GB microSD SanDisk external memory
SanDisk Fanatic
Posts: 294
Registered: ‎03-24-2008

Re: Lack of music folder on external memory?


CoindoorDave wrote:

First off - thanks everyone!

 

Conversion Box - Yep, in fact that's where I created my "artist" folder, inside which I copied the album (there were no subfolders in MSC)

 

So I switched from USB mode "Auto" to "MSC" then plugged in the player.  It now shows up as two drives (before it was one) and on the later of the two was a single "music" folder...inside THAT were "Audiobooks", "podcasts", etc...moving them back to the root only resulted in a second set being recreated inside MUSIC.

 

One other thing...I can now, no longer see any of the music on the internal memory when I had the USB setting of "Auto Detect".   Does "Auto Detect" defaut to MTP?  I use Windows Media Player to rip, then copy them using Windows Explorer (like I would to a thumb drive).  My concern now is - are there two formats on this (the older ones in MTP and the newer ones in MSC)?

 

Thanks again


 

Auto mode looks for an MTP protocol exchange first, if it doesn't get it, it looks for a UMS (MSC in SanDisk-speak) exchange. On most Windows PCs, this means it connects in MTP mode.

 

When connected in MSC mode,  each memory area (internal, uSD) looks like a separate UMS device to the host PC. So in Windows, each gets a drive letter.

 

Stuff transferred by MTP to internal memory can't be seen by a host PC connected in MSC mode, and vice-versa.

 

Stuff on the uSD can be seen in both modes, but the appearent  folder structure is different in MTP mode. The MSC-reported structure is the real structure (i.e. the FAT file system hierachy). In MSC mode, the host PC operating system is dealing directly with the FAT filesystem on the card. What you seen in MTP mode is how the Fuze chooses to report the real FAT structure.

SanDisk Fanatic
Posts: 284
Registered: ‎06-26-2008

Re: Lack of music folder on external memory?

I know that this is a solved thread, but I just discovered something after installing my new 16GB microSD.  There is a way to do what the OP wanted.  It involves WMP11.  Open WMP11, create a playlist, sync the playlist to your Fuze's External Memory, and disconnect.  After refreshing, reconnect the Fuze and open it with Windows Explorer.  Click on the "External Memory" icon and there will be folders for "Music," "Albums," and even "Playlists."  You can move your music to the "Music" and "Albums" folders, and even move your .PLA playlists to "Playlists."  It worked for me and worked every time.
Sansa Clip+ 40GB / Sansa Clip+ 4GB / Sansa c240 V1 1GB (RB'd) / XePort 7010-9 / MEElectronics HT-21 / Proud user of Screamer Radio (http://www.screamer-radio.com/) and Slacker Radio (http://www.slacker.com)
SanDisk Guru
Posts: 4,898
Registered: ‎11-17-2008

Re: Lack of music folder on external memory?


HulkSmashNow wrote:
  my new 16GB microSD. 

Congrats on that, Hulk. Just wondering, how much actual capacity do you get out of the theoretical 20GB? I have the 4GB Fuze like you, but still with an 8GB card.....I'm waiting for the price to come down some more on the 16GB cards.Smiley Happy

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SanDisk Fanatic
Posts: 284
Registered: ‎06-26-2008

Re: Lack of music folder on external memory?

[ Edited ]

Marvin_Martian wrote:

HulkSmashNow wrote:
  my new 16GB microSD. 

Congrats on that, Hulk. Just wondering, how much actual capacity do you get out of the theoretical 20GB? I have the 4GB Fuze like you, but still with an 8GB card.....I'm waiting for the price to come down some more on the 16GB cards.Smiley Happy


Appreciate it, Marvin.

 

Looks like the capacity of the card is 15,919,218,688 bytes, or "14.8GB" as Windows properties lists it.  I've loaded all of my music onto it, and keep the internal memory for my audiobooks.  It's also much faster copying and refreshing than my 8GB Kingston card.

 

My brother got the card for me at Office Depot for $49.99.  It was marked down from $99.99.  He got himself a new Toshiba Satellite laptop for $529, but it had a dead pixel, so we took it back the next day.  The laptop had been marked down to $499, and not only was he able to get it replaced, but got the thirty bucks back, too.

 

All the best.

 

 

Message Edited by HulkSmashNow on 06-16-2009 01:57 PM
Sansa Clip+ 40GB / Sansa Clip+ 4GB / Sansa c240 V1 1GB (RB'd) / XePort 7010-9 / MEElectronics HT-21 / Proud user of Screamer Radio (http://www.screamer-radio.com/) and Slacker Radio (http://www.slacker.com)