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Newbie
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎09-13-2008

Re: DIY Line Out Cable - Works!

BTW, can iPod LOD connector be used?

(of course, inside connection will be different)

SanDisk Professor
Posts: 682
Registered: ‎04-18-2008

Re: DIY Line Out Cable - Works!

For anyone out there thinking about hacking their own cables, I found this site:

 

Creative Zen and Sandisk Sansa connectors

 

They sell the DIY connectors necessary to make Sansa 30-pin cables from scratch.  They also sell a nice breakout PCB to make it easier to test/experiment.  It's a little pricey, but I guess if you were going to build your dock or something it might be worth it.

 

The connectors are only $4.50 shipped, so it might be a cheaper way to go if you already have an audio/usb cable you could reuse.  Most retail places charge $15-20 for a Sansa data cable.

SanDisk Guru
Posts: 4,898
Registered: ‎11-17-2008

Re: DIY Line Out Cable - Works!


Skinjob wrote:



 

The heaphone out is definitely clean, the issue is really just the lower level.  I use it to connect to my car's head unit and it sounds pretty good.  However, to get a decent level, I have to MP3Gain to 92dB, boost the Fuze's EQ about halfway up across all freqencies and set the gain on the head unit's line-in to max.  With all that, I get a level appoximately the same as playing a CD in the head unit.  Despite all the boosting, it still sounds suprisingly good.  But surely a true line source with no EQ on the Fuze and no/moderate gain on the head unit's input would be a lot better.

 


Jumping in out of curiosity, since I have no dock or interest in one, but I've always found that using the EQ lowered the overall output. However, I've never boosted them in a "flat" configuration either.  So connecting my Fuze(and Clip) I've been finding that as long as your rips are decent, then using the headphone out ,just EQ "normal" and max the player's volume works fine. That's both with the 3.5-AUX jack in a car, and 3.5-RCA in my home set-up. It's a little hit on your battery life if you're not hookedto a charger at the same time, but it's not too bad with the Fuze, anyways.

iPod Touch 5G 32GB, Touch 4G 32GB, Clip Sport 8GB.
Rockbox-> Clip Zip 4GB, iPod Nano 2G 4GB, iPod 5.5G 80GB
2012 Nexus 7 32GB, Asus MeMoPad 8 16+64GB, LG Optimus G Pro, Nokia Lumia 900, Nokia Lumia 520

SanDisk Fanatic
Posts: 363
Registered: ‎08-02-2008

Re: DIY Line Out Cable - Works!

skinjob, I don't think the firmware change to fixed level will help. It simply won't be adjustable anymore. It will still be .7 v rms p-p which is the lineout spec for home equipment. The problem seems to be with input impedance on devices that people connect to. They seem to vary quite a bit. Car stereos and boomboxes are probably all over the place. Home receivers should be quite constant at around 10-20k ohm. axon gets good level when connected to a receiver, but many people get low level when connecting to car stereos using the Fuze headphone out. I have to do some testing with my old Panasonic portable cd player that has a true lineout jack and see how it drives various device inputs. Also, a thought, I'll connect my Sansa View with a lineout cable and see how it drives some various inputs. I'll see if I can find somebody with an aux in in their car for some tests. I don't have a car stereo with a front panel mini aux in jack, my older Kenwood has rear panel rca line in which I have extended to jacks mounted on the dash face.

The View cables I bought on ebay are the ones that roll up on a recoiler (got 2 for $7 shipped). I did not open the connector end because I could see no needed contacts in the 30 pin connector. The Sansa cable snaps apart. Other cables may be molded or heat staked and may break when seperated. You have to glue them back together.

8GB Blue FUZE w/The Original DIY Lineout Cable and AT Button H-Phones Fitted To AT WM5 Headband:All Custom Built
SanDisk Professor
Posts: 682
Registered: ‎04-18-2008

Re: DIY Line Out Cable - Works!

 


14124all wrote:

The problem seems to be with input impedance on devices that people connect to. They seem to vary quite a bit. Car stereos and boomboxes are probably all over the place. Home receivers should be quite constant at around 10-20k ohm. axon gets good level when connected to a receiver, but many people get low level when connecting to car stereos using the Fuze headphone out.


 

I always thought it was an impedance issue as well, but someone posted here that I was incorrect (maybe neutron bob? can't remember).  It's defintely the case with both my home and car receivers that the Fuze connected via headphone gives a much lower level then a CD.

 


14124all wrote:

The View cables I bought on ebay are the ones that roll up on a recoiler (got 2 for $7 shipped). I did not open the connector end because I could see no needed contacts in the 30 pin connector. The Sansa cable snaps apart. Other cables may be molded or heat staked and may break when seperated. You have to glue them back together.


 

It seems like the one I have has a full connector, but I guess the housing must be glued.  Maybe I can separate it with an exacto without doing too much damage.


I guess it'll be worth sacrificing the cable for experimentation since it's useless to me anyway.  Then assuming we get it figured out properly, I think I'll order some of those connectors from that site I posted and some high quality audio cables from monoprice and try to make a really good cable.
SanDisk Guru
Posts: 4,898
Registered: ‎11-17-2008

Re: DIY Line Out Cable - Works!

I stand corrected Skinjob Smiley Happy

I crawled around through the "storage" room and dug out and  hooked up my CD changer again, and compared the same track.... and there certainly is a difference. Granted, I've never used MP3 Gain or anything of the sort,but  I'll still use the Fuze and Clip most of the time to preserve the CD's though.

iPod Touch 5G 32GB, Touch 4G 32GB, Clip Sport 8GB.
Rockbox-> Clip Zip 4GB, iPod Nano 2G 4GB, iPod 5.5G 80GB
2012 Nexus 7 32GB, Asus MeMoPad 8 16+64GB, LG Optimus G Pro, Nokia Lumia 900, Nokia Lumia 520

SanDisk User
Posts: 49
Registered: ‎12-01-2008

Re: DIY Line Out Cable - Works!


14124all wrote:

axon, These are only assumptions.

 

I don't think the lineout and headphone jack are the same signal. ...

 

... I think what is killing us here is that the headphone out signal in the Fuze is overly good. It is very clean all the way up to full volume.


 

I'm not sure what you mean?   Smiley Happy 

 

In message 47, sansafix said,

 

"At full scale,  the HP out will be the same level as line out assuming you use the Volume "High" setting."

 

As sansafix said above and I have found, the volume of the fuze and the dock are the same.  

 

If they had different impedance levels, would their respective volumes be the same when plugged into the same source?

 

For the record, in my office set up, the fuze by itself or with the dock does not produce a signal as loud as the CD player.   

 

Another interesting point relates to what Calv said.  I get the same "short circuit" 60 cycle buzz plugging the fuze into the dock as I get when I plug in the headphone jack, so what ever internal resistive measures are taken at the level of the headphone jack (not to fry the ICs), they are likewise employed at the level of the line out for the same reason... So if I follow what you're saying, if the resistance is applied by the dock and not by the fuze, that could be why your line out cable is louder and why the fuze requires a voltage to signal that the dock is in place before it outputs the unprotected line level.

 

axon

SanDisk Professor
Posts: 682
Registered: ‎04-18-2008

Re: DIY Line Out Cable - Works!

[ Edited ]

@14124all - did you notice this fix from the new FW changelog today:

 

• Standard line out level is not used in Dock mode 

 

Maybe this fixes the overdrive problem with your cable?  Or is this just referring to the change to a fixed output?  Let us know!

Message Edited by Skinjob on 12-12-2008 06:52 PM
SanDisk Fanatic
Posts: 363
Registered: ‎08-02-2008

Re: DIY Line Out Cable - Works!

Doh!!! Found that cable mod is giving very small if any increase in level! Nearly all of my testing has been on a Klipsch Promedia. It has a mini input cable and a aux in jack that can mix inputs. I assumed the input impedance was the same on both, it's not! Since the mod cable was a mini plug, I plugged into the aux input which has a higher impedance. I was plugging the Dock into the mini input cable which has a lower impedance. When plugging either into the same input, they are nearly the same. Looks like the cable jump will be a convenience item that will not help the car stereos. We will probably have to live with what we have here.

If axon is correct and I think he means the lineout and headphone out share the same signal, than the Fuze is not utilizing the AMS chip lineout pins. If it did, they would be independant signals (externally form the chip due to the dedicated outputs).

Oh well, you have "lineout" cable if you want it, but it looks like you can get nearly the same results out of the headphone jack.

8GB Blue FUZE w/The Original DIY Lineout Cable and AT Button H-Phones Fitted To AT WM5 Headband:All Custom Built
SanDisk User
Posts: 87
Registered: ‎11-21-2008

Re: DIY Line Out Cable - Works!

That's kind of depressing if line-out is not accessible, though I don't see why they wouldn't simply allow the use of the pre-amped output from the AS3525.  The AS3525 also has a third output, already amped for external speakers, though I am sure this output is not enabled in the Fuze.  Thanks so much for all your research into this, hopefully there is a way to access a pre-amped signal from the Fuze, I would hope that SanDisk would have taken advantage of this great chip on what is supposed to be their flagship player.